Flare nut wrench torque tests?

[rice rocket]

I know the Germans love to quantify all their findings, I remember seeing a open end wrench test on here (with the venerable Snap-Ons not faring so well) and I've seen tons of this stuff in the bicycle world where they test just about every piece of the bike for resistance, strength, stiffness, etc.

Has anyone seen a test for flare nut wrenches (offener ringschlüssel)? Monte?

 

[jim1987]

In for info

 

[Dirty Diesels]

Now this kind of test would be interesting, because I'd assume flare nut wrenches were designed to be low torque application & that would also depend on the sizes, the bigger the flare nut, the higher the torque or maybe so.

 

[Monte]

i´ve not yet seen one

 

[90zcar]

Where have u seen a test where the snap on open end wrenches don't do well?
Every test I seen they do awesome


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[rice rocket]

i´ve not yet seen one

Man, I thought you Germans test EVERYTHING!

Where have u seen a test where the snap on open end wrenches don't do well?
Every test I seen they do awesome

Here is the wrench comparison that was mentioned. Hazet was ranked as the strongest of all 18 wrenches tested, but was not #1 due to the high price. Snap On did not do too well.

 

[90zcar]

Now how am I supposed to make sense of all that nonsense!!


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[Cab037]

That would be more interesting if only I knew more than one language...

 

[rice rocket]

It's not to hard to figure out.

Maul = open, ring = closed. Find the things that say Nm, that's torque. mm is millimeters(duh). Preis is price. And each spec is ranked.

What else you need to know (other than the missing page)?

 

[MackMan]

You can see the peak torques at least... Maul=open end, Ring=box end.

From the number Snap-On is equal to the best in terms of the box end and among the worst for open end.

However... aren't Snap-On tools different for the European market than what we have in the US?

 

[rockfordmarv]

Probably common knowledge, but the H.F. flare nut wrenchs are garbage. After having one fall apart during a brake line job, I picked up the raised panel USA Craftsmans--haven't had a chance to use them yet to know if they're any good.

 

[Fcvapor05]

You can see the peak torques at least... Maul=open end, Ring=box end.

From the number Snap-On is equal to the best in terms of the box end and among the worst for open end.

However... aren't Snap-On tools different for the European market than what we have in the US?

I'm pretty sure they're the same in Europe as they are here. Either way, it doesn't much matter- as usual, people are wildly misinterpreting data from this test.

Look at the values and you'll notice that the torque limit for the high-quality wrenches is nearly perfectly linear in relation to the thickness of the open-end jaws. The Hazet wrench that put up the largest number in the test also has the thickest jaws. Snap-on's goal with open-end wrenches, according to every piece of marketing I've ever seen, isn't to build an open end wrench that can remove semi lugs. It's to build a wrench that is excellent in tight-access situations.

Obviously a wrench with thinner jaws isn't going have the same torque capacity. The 'low' max value of the Snap-on wrench, 135 Nm, is 100 ft-lbs. In my opinion, if you're trying to use an open end standard wrench to loosen a fastener torqued to 100 ft-lbs, you're using the wrong tool.

 

[Art From De Leon]

IIRC, both the crowsfoot, and flarenut (line) wrenches for 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" drive shown in the Snap-on catalog, DO show the maximum recommended working torque.

Snap-on Catalog #1200 pages 124 and 125, as an example.

 

[rice rocket]

In my opinion, if you're trying to use an open end standard wrench to loosen a fastener torqued to 100 ft-lbs, you're using the wrong tool.

Open ends are never the desired tool, it's always the tool you grab in a pinch when you come across a poorly located fastener that doesn't let you get the ring side on it. When you need 100 ft-lbs in a tight spot, you need 100 ft-lbs...there's no getting around that.

That said, the linear relationship only exists if you look at two points...lol.

I plotted the available ones for your viewing pleasure. Thickness is the X axis, max torque on the vertical.

edit: sorry, I botched my first try, put the box end values on second half of them...this one should be correct.

 

[cheechi]

I'd like to know what Stanley USA wrenches those were.

 

[rice rocket]

Found the missing page...

Too busy to redo the chart, but here's the table.

 

[Milton Shaw]

I have done torque test on flair nut wrenches over the years. Craftsman would round the fitting and not loosen it at all. SK would loosen the fitting but if extremely tight would sometimes break. SnapOn would loosen without rounding the fitting. That is a real world test although it was some years ago. Any other kind of test without counting rounding the fitting would not really help mechanics that need flare nut wrenches

 

[BirdMobile]

Looks like Wiesman and Walther are the wrenches to get if you want the best strengh in a thin profile wrench.

 

[rice rocket]

I have done torque test on flair nut wrenches over the years. Craftsman would round the fitting and not loosen it at all. SK would loosen the fitting but if extremely tight would sometimes break. SnapOn would loosen without rounding the fitting. That is a real world test although it was some years ago. Any other kind of test without counting rounding the fitting would not really help mechanics that need flare nut wrenches

Thanks. That's kind of what I was expecting across the three brands.

I'll probably end up w/ the Snap-On unless someone finds some "ringer" brand that is significantly better.

 

[bart1]

...The Hazet wrench that put up the largest number in the test also has the thickest jaws. Snap-on's goal with open-end wrenches, according to every piece of marketing I've ever seen, isn't to build an open end wrench that can remove semi lugs. It's to build a wrench that is excellent in tight-access situations.

Obviously a wrench with thinner jaws isn't going have the same torque capacity. The 'low' max value of the Snap-on wrench, 135 Nm, is 100 ft-lbs. In my opinion, if you're trying to use an open end standard wrench to loosen a fastener torqued to 100 ft-lbs, you're using the wrong tool.

My SO and Hazet 13mm wrenches confirm what is seen here (Hazet open end = thinner):

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4170757&postcount=112

Thanks. That's kind of what I was expecting across the three brands.

I'll probably end up w/ the Snap-On unless someone finds some "ringer" brand that is significantly better.

Look at these FN wrenches for pure strength.

 

[rice rocket]

I've seen those, I like the offset thing they got going on, but I don't like that there's no 5 degree offset so you can flip it to gain better access (not that you can flip it at all to begin with, take a close look at the flare nut side).

 

[Garage Junky]

Excellent stuff - thanks for posting.

 

[Fcvapor05]

My SO and Hazet 13mm wrenches confirm what is seen here (Hazet open end = thinner):

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4170757&postcount=112

My statement that the Hazet wrench has the thickest jaws was taken directly from the article posted. If your Hazet wrench is thinner than a snap-on wrench, one or both of them wasn't the same wrench used in this test.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

not only that, those are outdated version.

 

[chiz1180]

Not sure if this was mentioned but the test is from 2007... Also who performed the test, what are there qualifications?

chiz1180

 

[Fcvapor05]

Not sure if this was mentioned but the test is from 2007... Also who performed the test, what are there qualifications?

chiz1180

There's also a lot of assumptions being made without knowing the specifics of the test and how it was run. It might be in there but I don't speak German.

 

[rice rocket]

Not sure if this was mentioned but the test is from 2007... Also who performed the test, what are there qualifications?

chiz1180

Why the skepticism? You work for Snap-On or something?

Here's the whole article.

http://www.therevcounter.co.uk/uk-m...s-bit-expensive-ain-t-they-3.html#post1381475

 

[Hiball]

All My Testing is Done in House, I Own Craftsman Raised Panels, Cornwell, Carlyle, SK and Snap On in regards to Sets, Not to mention all the Loose ones ive picked up over the years. When it comes to working on Stuff that is Rusted/Borderline needs replaced I always grab My Snappys. If it slips/rounds once you might as well grab the vicegrips and/or Cut the line. Just my opinion.. A lot of people here have a Hard on for Snap on, but based off my experience they bring me piece of mind in this department. Ive also used my SK (Pre-Ideal) wrenches quite often because they come in a pouch for traveling and have been pleased.

 

[chiz1180]

Why the skepticism? You work for Snap-On or something?

Here's the whole article.

http://www.therevcounter.co.uk/uk-m...s-bit-expensive-ain-t-they-3.html#post1381475

Thanks for posting the whole article. I do not work for snap on, my skepticism is purely based off the fact that I believe that no country has the market cornered on engineering excellence, I am sure any of the unobtainium(at least in the US) German wrench manufactures have designed and engineered a quality wrench, but I highly doubt that it is realistically quantifiable better than a US brand. I also would like to point out that there is a great possibility that small changes have been made to the wrenches over the last 7 years who knows. Im just rambling now but again thanks for posting the whole article, I hope to be able to translate it soon.

chiz1180

 

[zkling]

How about proto/blackhawk and mac?

 

[bcradio]

All My Testing is Done in House, I Own Craftsman Raised Panels, Cornwell, Carlyle, SK and Snap On in regards to Sets, Not to mention all the Loose ones ive picked up over the years. When it comes to working on Stuff that is Rusted/Borderline needs replaced I always grab My Snappys. If it slips/rounds once you might as well grab the vicegrips and/or Cut the line. Just my opinion.. A lot of people here have a Hard on for Snap on, but based off my experience they bring me piece of mind in this department. Ive also used my SK (Pre-Ideal) wrenches quite often because they come in a pouch for traveling and have been pleased.

Spoken for truth here... One of the must haves from snap on.

They ran circles around my craftsman pro flare wrenches

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

How about proto/blackhawk and mac?

I have a Proto MM set and a Blackhawk SAE set, and they are both good quality. I live in AZ, so I don't have to deal with rust so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Proto is an industrial tool manufacturer, so you would think they would know how to make a Flare nut wrench.

 

[monomach]

US-made Stanley wrenches? Where'd the Germans get those from? I haven't seen any in MANY moons.

 

[toolaholic]

US-made Stanley wrenches? Where'd the Germans get those from? I haven't seen any in MANY moons.

Doesn't stanley own proto. When I order proto from amazon they are called stanley proto. Just a guess that it could be proto.

 

[nicksnothereman]

I know the Germans love to quantify all their findings, I remember seeing a open end wrench test on here (with the venerable Snap-Ons not faring so well) and I've seen tons of this stuff in the bicycle world where they test just about every piece of the bike for resistance, strength, stiffness, etc.

Has anyone seen a test for flare nut wrenches (offener ringschlüssel)? Monte?

I recall it being more or less that way cheaper wrenches were comparable in strength I don't think it was actually snap on performing badly but other stuff performing better than people would think.

There are very few of these tests. None of the brands seem to want to do it. But...with flare wrenches probably want to go with a truck brand or something that's built good enough that it doesn't spread easily and you can warranty easily when it does. Probably not where you want to go china but you could do crow foot flare; if they're crmo they're probably going to be durable even if they're taiwan or china.

 

[monomach]

if they're crmo they're probably going to be durable even if they're taiwan or china.

You're not going to find a whole lot of Cr-Mo flare nut wrenches. They'd be much more likely to spread than Cr-V unless you made them much thicker.

They use that stuff for impact sockets specifically because it's more malleable than Cr-V. Cr-V is harder and holds its shape better.

 

[monomach]

Oh, and while we're talking about flare nut tests, someone try doing brakes with a Knipex pliers wrench and let us know how it goes.

I'll try it, but I'm waiting for a car that really needs the lines changed out anyway, just in case they round the fitting off.

 

[rice rocket]

I'd be fearful of crushing the flare fitting, they're usually brass, right?

 

[bart1]

My statement that the Hazet wrench has the thickest jaws was taken directly from the article posted. If your Hazet wrench is thinner than a snap-on wrench, one or both of them wasn't the same wrench used in this test.

I have 600Ns and the long Snap On. My reason for posting that was wthis part of your quote:

...Snap-on's goal with open-end wrenches, according to every piece of marketing I've ever seen, isn't to build an open end wrench that can remove semi lugs. It's to build a wrench that is excellent in tight-access situations.
...

Seems to be a generalazation that Hazet's are thick, but on comparable wrenches, they are not. I'm not sure how the wrenches for this test were chosen, availability I assume. Should have used the Stahlwille 14 instead of 13.

I agree with you on using the right tool for the job.

Obviously you were mistaken about the linear relationship.

not only that, those are outdated version.

So we should replace our wrenches every 7 years?

More to the question of the OP, I have a mix and match group of flare nut wrenches. I actually have 5 or 6 Snap Ons and only 1 Hazet, so I am not some kind of SO hater. Both of those two brands fit well, have a nice 5 corner contact and seem to be very resistant to spreading.

I have a lot more Hazet combos than SO. I like the shape and finish better on them and I have not seen any weakness in either of them, other than I think SOs are too sharp on the edge. Hazets are also about 1/2 the price from what I can tell.

-Bart

-Bart

 

[neophyte]

I'd like to know what Stanley USA wrenches those were.

US-made Stanley wrenches? Where'd the Germans get those from? I haven't seen any in MANY moons.

Doesn't stanley own proto. When I order proto from amazon they are called stanley proto. Just a guess that it could be proto.

The Stanley wrenches pictured in that test are very similar to some of the other brands tested, and were likely made to conform to a DIN standard design.

I sort of wonder if the COO listed for the Stanley wrenches is actually correct since would be easier for Stanley to contract the production to a German, or European, company that produces private label tools and is already set up to produce that particular wrench design.

Stanley does have manufacturing in the USA used to produce some Stanley branded tools, as well as higher end Stanley owned brands such as MAC, Proto, and Blackhawk.

Stanley isn't necessarily considered a top notch professional brand in the USA anymore, but they still produce and sell high end expensive tools under the Stanley name in other parts of the world.