Flat Rate Mechanics

[wafrederick]

There is one Firestone store in my area that loves pushing customers saying they need ball joints when doing an inspection before an alignment is done.Have seen this,the ball joints are good after checking them a second time doing it the right way.Another butcher job I see is some people put in compression fittings when replacing brake lines.These people that do this need their tools taken away.Compression fittings are a huge no for a braking system,blow apart due the psi coming out.

 

[Joelfke]

it surprises me that shops charge different times...

chevy / hyundai dealer here:

LOF .4
rotation .3
multi point inspection 0
plug tire .3
blub change (reguardless of vehicle or difficulty) .3
alignment 1.0 (reguardless of vehicle)
tire .3 (reguardless of vehicle.....corvette tire pays .3....)
brakes drum or disc 2.3 no matter what vehicle and whether you cut rotors/drums or not
check engine light diag / clear codes 0.0

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

in 1994 a hunter L111 with a 4 post rack was 30k

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

There is one Firestone store in my area that loves pushing customers saying they need ball joints when doing an inspection before an alignment is done.Have seen this,the ball joints are good after checking them a second time doing it the right way.Another butcher job I see is some people put in compression fittings when replacing brake lines.These people that do this need their tools taken away.Compression fittings are a huge no for a braking system,blow apart due the psi coming out.

compression fittings on brake lines ? THAT is ILLEGAL

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

To you Ford tech's out there, are their book times pretty similar to Alldata? Only reason I ask is b/c about 4 years ago, I quit working at a Ford dealership to work at the indee garage I'm at currently. I never got to see book time for flat rate stuff. Are they about the same? Anyhow, I need to replace the dr. side rear wheel bearing in my Escape and know how stupid it's going to be to do so. I bought my own bearing, anticipating a saturday moring at my shop changing it but I though, eh what the hell, let's give the "good" local Ford dealership a call to see what they would want to charge for the labor only if I supplied the bearing.....
Alldata tells me 2 hrs. to do one side in the rear. Obviously, they have never done one before. I've had to spend nearly an hour heating up & skimming the outer races out of knuckles before that have pressed bearings. So, I called Donnell Ford....she quotes me at $290 LABOR ONLY!!!!! WTF??!?! The bearing, my cost, from our Napa was $30 and our shop charges $70/hr. Where are they pulling their numbers? Are they factoring in a possible rear alignment adjustment or what??! Maybe their bearing is $100, she said the parts dept. was closed to she could only give me the labor price.

It's funny how they can charge outrageos labor rates but can't seem to pay their tech's jack sh*t.
I'm soooo glad I left that environment.

70 an hour is 1999 prices
retail parts prices in the service department is usually 100% over cost
and we are busy as hell

 

[wafrederick]

Ya,I see this once in a while.Seen this on a Ford Taurus,someone put in a compression fitting when replacing a brake line.Removed it and did it right.I am surprised on one car that I junked out,someone used a piece of fuel line to fix a brake line,clamped it up and never leaked.

 

[nato]

70 an hour is 1999 prices
retail parts prices in the service department is usually 100% over cost
and we are busy as hell

About 2 years ago, we used to be only $50/hour. As soon as gas prices soared, my boss gave us all raises and upped the rate and we still are busy as hell. We haven't really even hit our pre-slow down period yet. Last year this time, we were at this point already.

And speaking of compression fittings...lol..I was checking over a Honda Odessey and found that someone and rigged the washer fluid line. It had severed and someone used a compression fitting and what looked to be a clear 1/4" or so section of outdoor power equipment gas line haha. Someone had struggled with this

 

[NJHandyGuy]

I've noticed alot more tows going to teh guy on *** street instead of dealers recently.

I get at least one a week.

tgere is a guy on ceadr grove road that every time i dorp a car has the snap on mac sk or matco guy there AT HIS HOUSE. it's crazy.

i get paid out of his wifes purse our petty cash drawer out of the bottom drawer of his mac tech 1000 and i am on my way.

i look or cl and all any shops seem to be hiring are "A" techs all the time.

teh work is definately shifting in ocean county as more shops are starving and more tehcs are leaving NJ *****

 

[pipsters]

About 2 years ago, we used to be only $50/hour. As soon as gas prices soared, my boss gave us all raises and upped the rate and we still are busy as hell. We haven't really even hit our pre-slow down period yet. Last year this time, we were at this point already.

Shop rates, as far as consumers (me) go, tend to be inelastic. In other words, you can raise them but the demand is still there, very little reduction will take place. The guy I use (exclusively) raised his from $63 to $72 2 years ago and it's probably in the $80's now. It's a one man shop so he's making that all himself (good for him). We pay what we have to when we find an honest guy who does good work. He could charge $100/hr and I wouldn't care, if I couldn't do the work I will pay him what he requires.

Now, raise it to $200 and I start shopping around again, Google and its reviews are a good starting point...

The problem with guys working out of their garage though is they can undercut because they don't have insurance or any environmental disposal issues like the shops do. My neighbor is an A&P and is really starting to up the work he does on the side, he had two cars in his driveway and one on the street the other day. I'm not a rat but I seriously considered complaining to the HOA, he is getting out of hand.

 

[ToolGuy75]

Here in Northern California: Acura dealer...Shop rate $160hr, we were at $175hr but cause times are tuff the manager lowered it....

minor service 1.0
Intermediate service 2.0
major service 3.0
front brakes 2.5
rear brakes 1.0
fuel induction service 1.0
throttle body cleaning 1.0
brake flush .8
coolant flush 1.0
AT trans flush 1.0
front/rear diff service .3
4 wheel align 1.5
LOF .4
flat repair .0 to good customers or .3
battery .0 to good customers or .5
headlight bulbs/exterior bulbs .0 to good customers or .5
check dtc .0 to good customers or .5
tire rotation .0 to good customers or .3
T-belt package 6.0 (Integras 5.0)
v6 valve adj w/plugs 4.0 (Integras 1.8)
4 tires 1.2
Most radiators 2.2 others 2.8
PDI 1.4


We are not flat rate though, we are hourly plus bonus and we're a union shop. 3 days of the week we are very busy and 2 days of the week we are very slow. I'm so glad not to be working flat rate anymore, with crappy warranty times it makes it tuff unless your the shop gravy boy....

 

[tyreguy25]

Did you just say $160/hr? I know where NOT to take a vehicle.

I see these times for tires and I have to ask, what the hell? 1.2hrs for 4? Honestly? How can it take 18 minutes to do ONE tire? I can do 22s in under 8 per tire, mounted, balanced and on the car. This is amazing!

 

[ToolGuy75]

Did you just say $160/hr? I know where NOT to take a vehicle.

I see these times for tires and I have to ask, what the hell? 1.2hrs for 4? Honestly? How can it take 18 minutes to do ONE tire? I can do 22s in under 8 per tire, mounted, balanced and on the car. This is amazing!

I never said thats how long it takes us, thats just what the dealer charges. $160 an hour is very steep but the average home in this area is around 1 million so you get the picture....

 

[Joelfke]

Did you just say $160/hr? I know where NOT to take a vehicle.

I see these times for tires and I have to ask, what the hell? 1.2hrs for 4? Honestly? How can it take 18 minutes to do ONE tire? I can do 22s in under 8 per tire, mounted, balanced and on the car. This is amazing!

youre saying it should be less????

go do a corvette tire by yourself and tell me how you feel.

also with old crappy equipment this time skyrockets, or when a customer decides to purchase a ****** tire that doesnt want to seat

 

[mrholeshot]

compression fittings on brake lines ? THAT is ILLEGAL

The Steel compression fittings are legal in SC. We never used them but they were legal. Brass was a no-no

 

[mrholeshot]

The labor rate in my shop was 75 dollars per hour with a 37.50 minimum charge. In order to be competitive you have to stay in line with other shops. I'd be at 100 per hour if I was still open right now.

 

[Lotek]

You don't like 1.2 for 4 tires, When I worked at a Hummer/Chevy dealer, the only guy in town who would touch H1tires got 2.0 each, and earned every cent. Beadlock runflat tires that never went offroad. 8 minutes to change 22's? mmm thanks but if I had $4000+ in rims, I would want someone who took the time not to scratch them. Sometimes you have to take a job slow to do it right, no matter what book time is.

 

[lipadj46]

I work at a Land Rover dealership, they hardly have any labour times in the book for things that actually need to be replaced/rebuilt on the newer models. pretty much anything after '05 in inaccurate/nonexistent.

You are lucky, working on the least reliable brand in the world. I mean how about those Discovery 2's? I love my disco but it is more of a hobby than a reliable means of conveyance.

 

[I can fix anything]

You are lucky, working on the least reliable brand in the world. I mean how about those Discovery 2's? I love my disco but it is more of a hobby than a reliable means of conveyance.

Yep huge pieces of junk. People think they are are tough because they take out accross the desert and go exploring. They have to take a convoy cause as the break down they just leave them there. I had a friend that spent time in Africa and he said there were dead ones everywhere.

 

[Theloniousmonk]

few years ago we had a customer w/ a defender that smoked the entire dash and chassis harness - never figured out why... one of my few experiences w/ rovers. i would still like to get a hold of an older rangie though.

 

[lipadj46]

Yep huge pieces of junk. People think they are are tough because they take out accross the desert and go exploring. They have to take a convoy cause as the break down they just leave them there. I had a friend that spent time in Africa and he said there were dead ones everywhere.

They are tough and capable and anything 2004 or older are relatively easy to fix, and can also be reliable but you need to maintain it like an F22. But I feel sorry for the kid that buys one for cheap because its a rover then the head gasket blow and the engine drops a liner or the driveshaft explodes and put a hole in the transmission.

 

[tyreguy25]

I am all for being careful, but I have done enough vettes and plus sized stuff it comes easy to me. I haven't done beadlocks, but if all goes right I will be out of bthis game tomorrow, working on the railroad.

 

[CarCrafter]

I never said thats how long it takes us, thats just what the dealer charges. $160 an hour is very steep but the average home in this area is around 1 million so you get the picture....

What do you guys get for PAX and where in the bay? I grew up in the East Bay

 

[OldsRocket]

I know this is an old thread but it was a good one. I am going to add on because I am needing to vent about flat rate.

The shop I work in currently has been slow for months. I am just an installer at the moment (and thank God because I am hourly plus flat rate so at least I am getting the hourly). I see the mechanics there standing around for 8 hours and being happy to make anything over 5 hours a day. I notice that the two master techs seem to AlWAYS have work. The others just get to starve until something else comes around.

I am really not liking flat rate because of this and am thinking that if I were to stay working in the field that I would definitely want to be hourly working fleet/government job. I know you don't get rich but at least you are making some money.

Some of the mechanics I see start jumping up and down when they get that rare 8 or 10 hour day but I just can't help feeling bad for them and thinking, "Your productivity time for the two weeks was 65%"

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

making money involves fraud

 

[joshthedieseltech]

Flat rate is BS, I work diesel and love it, hourly plus OT in an independent shop.

When you have a house, car and family you need to know how much $$ you will make.

You don't need to worry about being the service writer best bud to get the work.

Show up, do your best everyday and leave with a paycheck

 

[Davo3]

Honesty and good work go a long way

Amen. I work in a control panel shop in Atlanta. By some accounts, 80% of the local panel shops have shut down over the past three years. During that time, we've gone from owner + 2 FTEs (full time employees) + 1PTE (bookkeeping) to owner + 4 FTEs + 3 PTEs. We're not cheap, but neither do we nickel and dime people for minor changes.

It's hard to find folks who actually want to WORK and don't mind getting dirty and standing all day. We have the opportunity to work overtime every week, if not every day. Give people something worth coming back for, and they generally will.

 

[Davi]

I'm glad I'm going to be a mechanic over here rather than America. Over here we're paid for how many hours we work, and those were usually contracted on. Say 8-6 mon - sat at £6 an hour for example, so 60 hours at £6 an hour = £360 a week, every week, plus any overtime we may do. If the garage doesn't have any work in to do we still get paid.

 

[honcho]

As a customer, flat rate is a mixed blessing. Flat rate shops can tell you how much a job costs, which is good. However, as this thread has made very clear, flat rate mechanics feel that they are under the gun to finish jobs in as little time as possible. There are reasonable shortcuts that smart techs do and there are unreasonable shortcuts that get the vehicle out of the shop but may necessitate additional work. Of course, the tech doesn't care as long as it's not a comeback on him. Around here, the going shop rate is $100-110/hr and I don't have any desire to pay that much money for substandard work from anyone.

 

[thooks]

Yeah, we need more unions in the US...


The stories here are some of the reasons I do not wish to take one when going to a dealership. I have no desire to take my cars to a Honda dealer....and to be honest, I try to do all repair/maintenance that I can.

With that said, I cannot agree more with the "anti-dealer" statement. Don't be the service write that stands there and looks at the customer like he's got three eyes when he mentions something technical with the vehicle versus "it make da sound like dis". be HELPFUL to the person bringing you a car to work on that they are frustrated with.

 

[smogtech]

I just had a an interview at a honda dealership. I am going back Friday to start the paper work. I am being hired as a installer but being overpaid due to me having a smog license+ase etc.; I am supposed to be hired as a journeyman but they do not have the budget for it right now. With the upcoming holiday season I think Im going to discuss with them trying to get in as hourly opposed to flat rate.

 

[CarCrafter]

As a customer, flat rate is a mixed blessing. Flat rate shops can tell you how much a job costs, which is good. However, as this thread has made very clear, flat rate mechanics feel that they are under the gun to finish jobs in as little time as possible. There are reasonable shortcuts that smart techs do and there are unreasonable shortcuts that get the vehicle out of the shop but may necessitate additional work. Of course, the tech doesn't care as long as it's not a comeback on him. Around here, the going shop rate is $100-110/hr and I don't have any desire to pay that much money for substandard work from anyone.

Its only a blessing if your car ends up in an honest tech's bay. Yeah, we are an endangered specie!

If your car ends up in that other guys bay, how would you like paying an hour for a three can fuel injection service in the tank that you could've done? So what if the writer told you that it was a three part procedure. Or a 1.0 hr trans flush that was drained and filled instead that you could have done in 5 minutes? Incomplete 30K, flagged and charged for 4 hours but completed in 20 minutes. Brake flush huh? How about charging you for .8hr and just sucking out the master and then topping it off.

"I am going to explain my pricing to you just once so I don't have to explain my QUALITY more than once."

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

that is what I call a MASTER CYLINDER flush

 

[AL`]

that is what I call a MASTER CYLINDER flush

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

flat rate freddy is trying to make 10 hours by lunch time

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I'm glad I'm going to be a mechanic over here rather than America. Over here we're paid for how many hours we work, and those were usually contracted on. Say 8-6 mon - sat at £6 an hour for example, so 60 hours at £6 an hour = £360 a week, every week, plus any overtime we may do. If the garage doesn't have any work in to do we still get paid.

Depends where you are. My mate worked at and ran main dealer workshops for over 20 years, VW now give you basic + comission/bonus. Licenced Technicians (Above Mater Technician, additional endorsement for Touaregs and Phaetons.) are only on about £25k basic. If you pull a HUGE amount of work you can get yourself £35-40k as a Licenced tech.

I'm flate rate now and make more than i ever have. I can pull two hours a day and make more than i used to out of 9.

 

[Davi]

Depends where you are. My mate worked at and ran main dealer workshops for over 20 years, VW now give you basic + comission/bonus. Licenced Technicians (Above Mater Technician, additional endorsement for Touaregs and Phaetons.) are only on about £25k basic. If you pull a HUGE amount of work you can get yourself £35-40k as a Licenced tech.

I'm flate rate now and make more than i ever have. I can pull two hours a day and make more than i used to out of 9.

25k isn't bad like. I wouldn't mind getting in with a dealership for the extra training I can get, especially if I can get in with bmw, nissan or vauxhall

 

[route246]

I'm not a pro. I use a small 2-man shop down the street, 4 minutes walking time. He took over his father's business. I drop off the vehicle and let him know what's up. I don't even sign anything. I just wait for his call and pickup the vehicle. He doesn't pack the bill and he charges a fair price for parts. It is like finding a good doctor. Find a good mechanic and you're set as far as a vehicle owner goes. He would never think of ripping any of his customers off. In fact, he declines fluid change requests and things like that if he knows it's not necessary. He knew once that I was getting rid of a car very shortly but needed new pads and he did a quick swap of the pads and told me I'd be OK for 5K miles but that's about it because my rotors were right on the edge. I told him that's all I need and I donated the car 2 months later. He could have ripped me off but he chose to keep me as a customer for life.

 

[Toolhorder]

Sometimes the book is off,sometimes takes less than the labor is called for.Have done some short cuts instead going by the book.Did this with a 2001 Saturn Vue with the V6,replace the engine.Book says to unbolt the subframe with the engine and transmission bolted together..Did it by removing the exhaust manifolds including unbolting more and got it out.

Is that the Honda engine version?

 

[Toolhorder]

Here in Northern California: Acura dealer...Shop rate $160hr, we were at $175hr but cause times are tuff the manager lowered it....

minor service 1.0
Intermediate service 2.0
major service 3.0
front brakes 2.5
rear brakes 1.0
fuel induction service 1.0
throttle body cleaning 1.0
brake flush .8
coolant flush 1.0
AT trans flush 1.0
front/rear diff service .3
4 wheel align 1.5
LOF .4
flat repair .0 to good customers or .3
battery .0 to good customers or .5
headlight bulbs/exterior bulbs .0 to good customers or .5
check dtc .0 to good customers or .5
tire rotation .0 to good customers or .3
T-belt package 6.0 (Integras 5.0)
v6 valve adj w/plugs 4.0 (Integras 1.8)
4 tires 1.2
Most radiators 2.2 others 2.8
PDI 1.4


We are not flat rate though, we are hourly plus bonus and we're a union shop. 3 days of the week we are very busy and 2 days of the week we are very slow. I'm so glad not to be working flat rate anymore, with crappy warranty times it makes it tuff unless your the shop gravy boy....

You must be in the SF/bay area or Simi Valley. Last Acura dealer I worked for was $129 an hour or something.

 

[xurusaibobx]

some days i wish was flat rate and some days i thank god am hourly, i mean flat rate guys can bank if their shop is really busy everyday. but once u hit a a dry slump your pretty much dead broke on hours. if you work independent and the boss is supper good he treat his workers fair. you want hourly he pay you hourly if you want flat rate he give you flat rate. my boss is like this i mean happy workers make happy business. our top guys make close to 80-90k yearly on hourly alone thats with an extra 6th day optional saturday work.