Flat Rate Mechanics

[earlthegoat2]

Flat rate is for the birds. I do golf equipment maintenence and golf course fleet service for a golf resort at an hourly wage. I did flat rate for a few years and I coined the expression "The Flat Rate Rat Race"

Get out of flat rate. Always seems shady and they are always taking advantage of the techs. Find a good fleet service job and put in 8 hrs aday and make the same money as a 12 hour flat rate day.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

25k isn't bad like. I wouldn't mind getting in with a dealership for the extra training I can get, especially if I can get in with bmw, nissan or vauxhall

It's not all that either, all things considered. My mate who i work for spent over 20 years at dealers, he's totally against it. He told me he'd get me a job at a dealer just so i can see how bad it is.

 

[Davi]

It's not all that either, all things considered. My mate who i work for spent over 20 years at dealers, he's totally against it. He told me he'd get me a job at a dealer just so i can see how bad it is.

I went to uni to get a really good well paid job where my starting wage would of been around the 30k mark, just so that I could retire early and enjoy the money.
2 years in I realised I would hate the job so much that I didn't even finish my last year. I would rather earn less and enjoy my life as it comes. I can survive on 15k so I can be quite comfortable on 25k +

Not saying your points aren't valid and not commenting on the dealer stuff because I have no experience of it yet, its just my perogative on the money.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I went to uni to get a really good well paid job where my starting wage would of been around the 30k mark, just so that I could retire early and enjoy the money.
2 years in I realised I would hate the job so much that I didn't even finish my last year. I would rather earn less and enjoy my life as it comes. I can survive on 15k so I can be quite comfortable on 25k +

Not saying your points aren't valid and not commenting on the dealer stuff because I have no experience of it yet, its just my perogative on the money.

I was on around 15k for 3-4 years. Got lucky and landed a job where, if i keep on at the current rate, i'll be on about 40k. You'll need to make a lot more than 30k to retire early!

I haven't worked at a dealer myself, so i can't comment on that aspect. Only going by people who've been there and done that.

Get a job at a Vauxhall dealer and find me an oil filter housing socket for 1.9 CDTi engines. (Made by Alfa-Romeo.) They're like 77-78mm and 16 flats. I have about a thousand oil filter sockets and none fit.

 

[Davi]

I was on around 15k for 3-4 years. Got lucky and landed a job where, if i keep on at the current rate, i'll be on about 40k. You'll need to make a lot more than 30k to retire early!

That was just starting wage. A lil bit more study and experience and it was closer to 60k, more study again and it was 100k. These are estimates that I was told by the uni so not exact just a rough idea.

Get a job at a Vauxhall dealer and find me an oil filter housing socket for 1.9 CDTi engines. (Made by Alfa-Romeo.) They're like 77-78mm and 16 flats. I have about a thousand oil filter sockets and none fit.

I helped a mate do an intake manifold and timing belt on one, boy was that a fun day. Not sure if it was the 1.9, just know it was the veccy C dti

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

can you make 6 figures patching up golf carts ?

 

[Toolhorder]

can you make 6 figures patching up golf carts ?

Can you make 6 figures anymore working on cars???

 

[epmills]

Can you make 6 figures anymore working on cars???

That and above, I know of 2 techs at my shop making 6 figures.

 

[Toolhorder]

That and above, I know of 2 techs at my shop making 6 figures.

Ya right, if they tell you that they're full of ****. I know service advisors making over 100K though.

 

[earlthegoat2]

can you make 6 figures patching up golf carts ?

No, but you can make more than the average flat rate schmuck working at Kia.

My job is not the end all be all but if I could just jump to the highest paying gig in my career field then I would go right ahead an do it.

Average schmo mechanics dont make much. Even experienced fellers dont make that much. I could tell you just how much I made but that would not solve anything. I do make more than a service manager at the local Chevy/GMC dealership though. No, this is not diesel marine mechanic wages but it is a healthy sum for someone with a college degree in anything but auto/technical studies. Yeah, I have a degree but not in auto/diesel. I took a few classes and raped the Snap On SEP but I do not have an auto related degree.

You cannot just work at any golf course and make this kind of money though. Like I said, I work at a recreational resort with both golf course maintenence equipment and facilities maintenece equipment including cars, trucks, vans, forklifts, all kinds of small engines, diesel generators and the like. You need to be a REAL MECHANIC to work here not just a PARTS SWAPPER. If the part is expensive or unavailable, you make one. If your hydraulic cylinders on your lift are shot you rebuild them. If a mower reel needs sharpening you sharpen it. If there is problem regarding anything mechanical you fix it. Period.

No I do not get 6 figures. If you do, then you are one of the lucky ones. I know it is not unheard of so if you say so, I will believe you. The unlikely dream of many of my auto classmates was to work at a Mercedes or Porsche dealership one day where it was said 6 figures was common. I personally think it is possible after about 10 years of experience.

YMMV

 

[Toolhorder]

No, but you can make more than the average flat rate schmuck working at Kia.

My job is not the end all be all but if I could just jump to the highest paying gig in my career field then I would go right ahead an do it.

Average schmo mechanics dont make much. Even experienced fellers dont make that much. I could tell you just how much I made but that would not solve anything. I do make more than a service manager at the local Chevy/GMC dealership though. No, this is not diesel marine mechanic wages but it is a healthy sum for someone with a college degree in anything but auto/technical studies. Yeah, I have a degree but not in auto/diesel. I took a few classes and raped the Snap On SEP but I do not have an auto related degree.

You cannot just work at any golf course and make this kind of money though. Like I said, I work at a recreational resort with both golf course maintenence equipment and facilities maintenece equipment including cars, trucks, vans, forklifts, all kinds of small engines, diesel generators and the like. You need to be a REAL MECHANIC to work here not just a PARTS SWAPPER. If the part is expensive or unavailable, you make one. If your hydraulic cylinders on your lift are shot you rebuild them. If a mower reel needs sharpening you sharpen it. If there is problem regarding anything mechanical you fix it. Period.

No I do not get 6 figures. If you do, then you are one of the lucky ones. I know it is not unheard of so if you say so, I will believe you. The unlikely dream of many of my auto classmates was to work at a Mercedes or Porsche dealership one day where it was said 6 figures was common. I personally think it is possible after about 10 years of experience.

YMMV

I was sold the 6 figure dream going through the college automotive program in the 90's. Never made that much.

Crunch the numbers, even at 45.oo hr. flat rate and breaking even at 80 hours a pay check you're at 80K something. That's not including taxes yet.
Most flat rate techs in the car world (not diesel mechanics) aren't even close to $45 hourly rate. I think the average is about $25-30 for a top level master tech.
Let's say you're that $30 hr. guy and you're pulling 120 a check cause you're such a hack or gravy **** you can pull it off, that's still $86K then you have to pay taxes.
Those kind of times are late 90's, early 2000's and they're long gone. Guys are starving out there now.

BTW, best year I had was 60K after taxes and I hustled my *** off. Looking back it's a living but I could sit in the air conditioned office and sell brake pads all day as an advisor and make much more. That's the job I'm heading into now or I'm opening my own shop.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I was sold the 6 figure dream going through the college automotive program in the 90's. Never made that much.

Crunch the numbers, even at 45.oo hr. flat rate and breaking even at 80 hours a pay check you're at 80K something. That's not including taxes yet.
Most flat rate techs in the car world (not diesel mechanics) aren't even close to $45 hourly rate. I think the average is about $25-30 for a top level master tech.
Let's say you're that $30 hr. guy and you're pulling 120 a check cause you're such a hack or gravy **** you can pull it off, that's still $86K then you have to pay taxes.
Those kind of times are late 90's, early 2000's and they're long gone. Guys are starving out there now.

Luckily I was smart enough to know the 6 figure dream was only a dream. You would either need some incredible talent or some good connections to land you that kind of job and probably both.

 

[Skin]

You would either need some incredible talent or some good connections

Or a fairer pay scale than the current one where dealerships rake in 80% of the billed labor rate.

 

[Lotek]

I'm not a pro. I use a small 2-man shop down the street, 4 minutes walking time. He took over his father's business. I drop off the vehicle and let him know what's up. I don't even sign anything. I just wait for his call and pickup the vehicle. He doesn't pack the bill and he charges a fair price for parts. It is like finding a good doctor. Find a good mechanic and you're set as far as a vehicle owner goes. He would never think of ripping any of his customers off. In fact, he declines fluid change requests and things like that if he knows it's not necessary. He knew once that I was getting rid of a car very shortly but needed new pads and he did a quick swap of the pads and told me I'd be OK for 5K miles but that's about it because my rotors were right on the edge. I told him that's all I need and I donated the car 2 months later. He could have ripped me off but he chose to keep me as a customer for life.

This guy is part of the problem for our profession...

Right off the bat he is in violation of Ca. state law, No signed estimate before work is started. No updated estimate after inspection, no communication with the customer, and is willing to cut corners on safety items. I'd be willing to bet he has never worked anywhere else, no formal training, doesn't keep up on the latest technology, and has outdated diagnostic equipment. Maybe he has a subscription to Alldata or some other service information service, but most likely he wings it. Usually he gets it right, but on occasion he buries the car in parts until he gives up and has the customer take it to the dealer, who finds a bad ground...

 

[Toolhorder]

This guy is part of the problem for our profession...

Right off the bat he is in violation of Ca. state law, No signed estimate before work is started. No updated estimate after inspection, no communication with the customer, and is willing to cut corners on safety items. I'd be willing to bet he has never worked anywhere else, no formal training, doesn't keep up on the latest technology, and has outdated diagnostic equipment. Maybe he has a subscription to Alldata or some other service information service, but most likely he wings it. Usually he gets it right, but on occasion he buries the car in parts until he gives up and has the customer take it to the dealer, who finds a bad ground...

I agree,
Everytime someone on this forum says work out of your garage I think, "ya right you must not live in CA" cause it's illegal as hell to do that here. I posted a link on another thread to the bureau of automotive repair's site where they just did a Craigslist bust on a bunch of mobile and home repair guys. No worth my freedom to work under the table.

 

[williaty]

That varies by location. And by location, I mean even where you are within the same township! In my area, to run an auto shop out of your residence, the only requirements are that 1) You can't piss off the neighbors 2) You can't have people park on the main road and 3) No more than two of the employees are allowed to not be blood relatives of the property owner. Half a mile down the road, it's no shop, no way, no how. Half a mile in the other direction and so long as you don't turn it into a Superfund site, they don't give a **** what you do. So in Cali you may not be able to work out of a residence, but many other places around the country are ok with it.

 

[Toolhorder]

That varies by location. And by location, I mean even where you are within the same township! In my area, to run an auto shop out of your residence, the only requirements are that 1) You can't piss off the neighbors 2) You can't have people park on the main road and 3) No more than two of the employees are allowed to not be blood relatives of the property owner. Half a mile down the road, it's no shop, no way, no how. Half a mile in the other direction and so long as you don't turn it into a Superfund site, they don't give a **** what you do. So in Cali you may not be able to work out of a residence, but many other places around the country are ok with it.

What state are you in?

Here it's state wide. They actually arrested these guys.

 

[williaty]

What state are you in?

Here it's state wide. They actually arrested these guys.

Ohio. Pretty much a "do whatever the hell you want no matter how many people it kills and how long it ruins the land" kind of state. I mean, we're the guys who set rivers on fire. More than once.

 

[Toolhorder]

Ohio. Pretty much a "do whatever the hell you want no matter how many people it kills and how long it ruins the land" kind of state. I mean, we're the guys who set rivers on fire. More than once.

There is no state agency regulating auto repair?

 

[williaty]

There is no state agency regulating auto repair?

Nope, you're on your own. Which is both a better and a worse thing, since you have to potentially deal with a hodge-podge of different agencies if there's a major screw up. State Attorney General for business practice/ethics/legal stuff, OEPA for enviro stuff, OOSHA for safety, city or township for things like putting a sign up, etc. It can be difficult sometimes to figure out which office you need to call for a given issue. Having a single entity to cover all possible issues would be convenient in some respects but would probably lead to the situation you guys are in where you have to apply 6 months in advance, in triplicate, just to stick a key in an ignition.

But basically, yeah, so long as an auto shop doesn't screw up badly enough to run afoul of a major state agency, there's no direct oversight.

 

[Lotek]

There is no state agency regulating auto repair?

Even Ohio has rules http://www.ohiolegalservices.org/public/legal_problem/consumer-rights/automobile/automobile/autorepairsWEB.pdf

Looks a lot like Cali
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_AutoRepair/Auto_Repair_Guide.html

Most of this stuff is basic cya for the shop, you have to wonder, if he is cutting these corners...

 

[williaty]

Even Ohio has rules http://www.ohiolegalservices.org/public/legal_problem/consumer-rights/automobile/automobile/autorepairsWEB.pdf

Yeah, those are part of the ORC, the general body of laws covering all activities within the state. There's no specific group tasked with enforcing them against shops more than, say, laws about hairdressers (which are also in the ORC). So basically, you'd have to piss off a customer, the customer would have to file a formal complaint with the CPS who will pass it on to the SAG, the SAG's office would sit on the report a couple of years, then finally send a letter to you asking if you still happen to be in business, then you'd have an interview with someone from the SAG, then if they decided the plaintiff would look good enough on the TV and in the papers, they'll finally initiate proceedings against you. Mostly, this is not an area of law they're interested in enforcing, even in an election year. We don't have the "Car Shop Boogeyman" like Cali does.


In reality, I don't know of any shop that doesn't do the things in that pamphlet just to cover their own ***. Where I was going was that we don't have the level of restriction in many areas that Cali does on where we can open a shop, who can open a shop, there's no licensing, etc. We just have to be ethical once it's open.

 

[00S4Boy]

I was sold the 6 figure dream going through the college automotive program in the 90's. Never made that much.

Crunch the numbers, even at 45.oo hr. flat rate and breaking even at 80 hours a pay check you're at 80K something. That's not including taxes yet.
M

45 * 80 * 52 = 187,200

Where did you get 80k?

This is reasonable out of a high end tech

30*60*52 = 93,600

That's 30 dollars an hour master tech pay, 60 hours flagged(probably worked 50 most techs i know do 10 hours 5 days a week), 52 weeks a year.

 

[Toolhorder]

45 * 80 * 52 = 187,200

Where did you get 80k?

This is reasonable out of a high end tech

30*60*52 = 93,600

That's 30 dollars an hour master tech pay, 60 hours flagged(probably worked 50 most techs i know do 10 hours 5 days a week), 52 weeks a year.

80k something I said. I just went 120 hours a month x 12 months at 30.

Either way you cut it once you pay taxes you aren't in the 6 figure bracket yet.
I doubt many guys are even making $30. I'm looking for a job right now and can't find $25 an hour. Every offer I have received is under $25 and I've passed. I had a motorcycle shop offer me $18 flat rate and I laughed at him.
I won't open my toolbox every morning for less than $25 especially in this economy where it's slow.

 

[route246]

Actually, he fills out the form but I don't sign it. It's done on the honor system. He always calls me if he finds something to get me to OK it. It may be in violation technically and I don't know how he handles others but with me it's done with a nod and handshake. I operate that way in general once I find someone I like doing business with. I can't speak for his equipment or tools since I'm no expert. He does have an old 72" Matco box with matching hutch. He took over the business from his father. When my vehicles are out of warranty I never take them to a dealer. That's not because I'm cheap. I'm tired of getting $125 oil changes and tire rotations. He's charging me $60 for something I could get at Jiffy Lube for $20 but it's always part of a more comprehensive service like a water pump, timing belt or other normal wear and tear part. I change my own oil and filters.

This guy is part of the problem for our profession...

Right off the bat he is in violation of Ca. state law, No signed estimate before work is started. No updated estimate after inspection, no communication with the customer, and is willing to cut corners on safety items. I'd be willing to bet he has never worked anywhere else, no formal training, doesn't keep up on the latest technology, and has outdated diagnostic equipment. Maybe he has a subscription to Alldata or some other service information service, but most likely he wings it. Usually he gets it right, but on occasion he buries the car in parts until he gives up and has the customer take it to the dealer, who finds a bad ground...

 

[00S4Boy]

80k something I said. I just went 120 hours a month x 12 months at 30.

Either way you cut it once you pay taxes you aren't in the 6 figure bracket yet.
I doubt many guys are even making $30. I'm looking for a job right now and can't find $25 an hour. Every offer I have received is under $25 and I've passed. I had a motorcycle shop offer me $18 flat rate and I laughed at him.
I won't open my toolbox every morning for less than $25 especially in this economy where it's slow.

Wtf are you talking about, I crunched your numbers like you said to and the outcome was way more then 80k.

How does your 45 an hour at 80 hours a week, for a year turn into 30 an hour 40 hours a week for 12 months which isn't even accurate because 4 weeks * 12 months = 48 weeks which is 4 weeks shy of a year.

Obviously reading is not a strong point of yours.

 

[Danglerb]

In Calif the BAR has real teeth, and the EPA is worse. Cities get in the act too with weird ordinances and fines and licenses. Lots of times small shops get screwed but good, but larger operations like a dealership may have enough political juice to not even get a fine, just a warning.

 

[Lotek]

Actually, he fills out the form but I don't sign it. It's done on the honor system. He always calls me if he finds something to get me to OK it. It may be in violation technically and I don't know how he handles others but with me it's done with a nod and handshake. I operate that way in general once I find someone I like doing business with. I can't speak for his equipment or tools since I'm no expert. He does have an old 72" Matco box with matching hutch. He took over the business from his father. When my vehicles are out of warranty I never take them to a dealer. That's not because I'm cheap. I'm tired of getting $125 oil changes and tire rotations. He's charging me $60 for something I could get at Jiffy Lube for $20 but it's always part of a more comprehensive service like a water pump, timing belt or other normal wear and tear part. I change my own oil and filters.

Rereading that, I shouldn't have come down so hard on your guy, don't know him from Adam, just got done fixing a bad ground on an old truck that some hack threw a distributor, plugs, wires, coil, throttle body, and ecm, he gave up and I had to hear from the customer about how "his mechanic" said it was a software issue... but the lack of a signed R/O is dumb on his part, the BAR really frowns on that, and the courts would immediately rule against him in any dispute. I deal on a handshake with my farrier and others, but there aren't laws in those cases requiring signed orders.

 

[kythri]

45 * 80 * 52 = 187,200

Where did you get 80k?

This is reasonable out of a high end tech

30*60*52 = 93,600

That's 30 dollars an hour master tech pay, 60 hours flagged(probably worked 50 most techs i know do 10 hours 5 days a week), 52 weeks a year.

80 hours a week?

 

[OldsRocket]

80 hours a week?

Where I am working (on good weeks that is...and there haven't been good weeks in weeks!!!) the master techs usually flag 40 to 60 hours a week (100-150% productivity). I think 60 hours a week flagged is very good and not an average week for the large majority of techs.

What is the average amount of time you techs flag per week?

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

when you get paid over 30 an hour - you get every headache/trans/diesel that comes in the shop

 

[kythri]

Retracted.

 

[Toolhorder]

Wtf are you talking about, I crunched your numbers like you said to and the outcome was way more then 80k.

How does your 45 an hour at 80 hours a week, for a year turn into 30 an hour 40 hours a week for 12 months which isn't even accurate because 4 weeks * 12 months = 48 weeks which is 4 weeks shy of a year.

Obviously reading is not a strong point of yours.

I made two figures go back and read my posts again. I'm saying 30 is probably average for a journeyman master tech not 45 so that figure doesn't even matter.

If you think you can make over 100K go try it then, I'm 15 years into this so called "career" and can't do it and I'm in CA., I have just about every cert. there is in my field, state smog license, Master Honda factory trained.

Fact of the matter is the industry has changed. Most cars have less and less maintenance required, timing belts have been replaced with chains, spark plugs are over 100K intervals and are coil on plug so no more tune-ups. It's less and less about maintenance and more and more warranty and check check check BS that doesn't pay.

 

[CarCrafter]

If you think you can make over 100K go try it then, I'm 15 years into this so called "career" and can't do it and I'm in CA., I have just about every cert. there is in my field, state smog license, Master Honda factory trained.

Dude, you can, but you would have to check your conscience at the door and steal or to do it honestly, be the only tech in the entire shop. I'm in Michigan and the dealer principal lowered the flat rate hour of their tech $5/flat rate hour because the guy grossed over $150K in 2010.

 

[Toolhorder]

In Calif the BAR has real teeth, and the EPA is worse. Cities get in the act too with weird ordinances and fines and licenses. Lots of times small shops get screwed but good, but larger operations like a dealership may have enough political juice to not even get a fine, just a warning.

They sure do.

I just filed a complaint on a dealer that misdiagnosed my wife's car which is brand new and under warranty and they tried to charge us while it's under warranty for something it didn't even need. I had a second dealer fix it correctly and at no charge. When I complained to the dealer and the car company's corp. line I was ignored.
When I filed a complaint with BAR they went to the dealer and I was told I was correct, the tech diagnosed the car wrong then the advisor tried to upsell warranty and the tech never test drove the car.
I was told the dealer agreed with BAR didn't fight the complaint and "changes were made" which sounded like some people are not working there anymore.

 

[Toolhorder]

Dude, you can, but you would have to check your conscience at the door and steal or to do it honestly, be the only tech in the entire shop. I'm in Michigan and the dealer principal lowered the flat rate hour of their tech $5/flat rate hour because the guy grossed over $150K in 2010.

Ya that says it pretty well then cause I'm not willing to steal or screw customers. What was the guy making an hour?

 

[CarCrafter]

Ya that says it pretty well then cause I'm not willing to steal or screw customers. What was the guy making an hour?

$27/flat rate our... The SM even called me early this Spring, ironically while I was installing my own shop equipment. "Now I don't know if you're going to jump up and down and tell me to go F___ myself, but I wanted to call and see if you are willing to come talk to us.... what happened to you was wrong and the owner will even personally apologize to you if you would come back"...... At the time, the dealer principal/ owner had just passed out the W2s for 2010 and discovered this ****** is the highest paid employee at over $150k gross. Now this dealer group has several dealerships, Dodge, GM, Cadillac, Hummer, etc. The next highest paid tech in the entire dealer group was not even making even half. In our area, 75K is pretty good pay for 5 days a week. This douche, he thinks he is special, he "made his own hay!!!"... that means he made his own thieving opportunities for those of you who aren't clear. hhhmmm, yea... anyways.. I guess he threw a fit when they asked him to take a $5/ flat rate hour pay cut and threatened to quit. Swore up and down that other dealerships wants him and took some of his things home. Even gave a little speech to the fellow techs and parts dept the Friday of during lunch... then he went to the local unemployment office, got laughed at, and went back to work.... NICELY done.. lol.... lol

 

[Davi]

Guys I hope I didn't start all the 100k argument thing off, that was to do with predicted earnings I could of worked up to in the job I would of got after finishing uni (Network Computing). I just used it as an example to say that even though my wage will certainly be a lot lower I'm glad I'm going to be a mechanic rather than sitting at a desk all day.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Guys I hope I didn't start all the 100k argument thing off, that was to do with predicted earnings I could of worked up to in the job I would of got after finishing uni (Network Computing). I just used it as an example to say that even though my wage will certainly be a lot lower I'm glad I'm going to be a mechanic rather than sitting at a desk all day.

They're talking about hitting 6 figures. It's a regular argument on the topic of flat-rate.

 

[Danglerb]

You can't compare US and UK pay, $ are less then Euros, and the cost of living and working is structured differently.

Best pay goes to those who do the jobs few can or will do.

Old joke, Homeowner is complaining to his plumber that his bill is more per hour than he makes as a brain surgeon, and the plumber says, hey buddy I feel for ya, I didn't make that much when I was a brain surgeon either.