Flexible gas line or black pipe through closed wall?

[allinon72]

I am kicking around the idea of adding a gas heater to my attached garage. This would require me getting a gas line from the basement gas manifold, up through a first story wall, and into the attic where I could drop it down to the heater in the corner of the garage. My question - what is the proper way to route the gas line through the wall? My house was built in 2018 and uses flexible gas line - almost looks like black pex (not sure if its CSST or some other material). Could I route that through an entire wall without any support or would the proper way to do it be black pipe?

 

[yeldogt]

I never place anything but black pipe in an enclosed wall/ ceiling -- that's me. Open area -- flex is fine property installed. yes it's SS with a protective black cover

 

[BD1]

I would check your building code. That tubing is legal in some areas. It might not be a issue unless you go to sell if it is against code and it's noticed at home inspection


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HoosierBuddy]

National fuel code doesn't allow for a lot of variability in piping materials for gas lines.

Indoors, or above ground, no type of plastic is approved as a fuel line.

Your first move should be to figure out what you have. If it is some type of CSST, figure out who the manufacturer is. Once you figure that out, go online and get their installation manual, study it and figure out what is allowed. Then plan your job accordingly.

I hate to keep posting the same thing regarding CSST....but NFC is clear, to install it you have to be trained (at a minimum having read through and UNDERSTOOD all the required installation guidelines) AND you have to install it to the manufacturers requirements.

Finally, in general (again if it is CSST) you can't mix and match. Fittings and tubing need to be from the same manufacturer...so step one is figure out what you have.

Or...use black pipe. That's why I like black pipe. You have to thread it. You have to use pipe sealant (Rectorseal 5 is my go to). But as long as you proceed in a workman like manner....it's pretty straight forward.

If in your messing around with all this you find your gas line is actually plastic...you have a huge problem.

Phil

 

[allinon72]

After looking closer, it's simply SS flex line with a black sheath over it.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

After looking closer, it's simply SS flex line with a black sheath over it.

Right. Some flavor of CSST. It and the fittings should be marked somewhere with the trade name or name of the manufacturer.

Phil

 

[allinon72]

Looks like what I have existing is Tracpipe Counterstrike. Cool *** name

 

[Stefan S]

I’m adding a LP range and my house currently has no gas appliances. I was planning to run CSST from the 120 gallon tank inside the wall of the garage and about 40 feet through the attic to a manifold (future proofing) and then down to the stove inside the wall. I worry about putting a screw in it for the garage wall but not the wall inside the house.

I don’t see a way to mount iron pipe without running it externally outside the house or inside the garage neither of which excite me... won’t the csst simply move to the side if a screw accidentally comes through to it?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I don’t see a way to mount iron pipe without running it externally outside the house or inside the garage neither of which excite me... won’t the csst simply move to the side if a screw accidentally comes through to it?

It's possible to run a screw through it. Unlikely probably, but it's been done.

Phil

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Looks like what I have existing is Tracpipe Counterstrike. Cool *** name

So, do a google search on that and find the pdf of the manual and study up. I'm not personally trained on that brand...but I believe I've seen others on this board say that is a second generation brand that has been beefed up to (hopefully) prevent it from melting if energized by lightning....which was a huge problem with early CSST's. I THINK (check me because I'm not 100%) that type does NOT require bonding...which if true would make it much simpler for you to proceed and do it right.

Phil

 

[75gmck25]

Make sure you read and understand HoosierBuddy's comment about the need for CSST training. If you try to buy new fittings or any other parts for a specific brand of CSST you will need training and certification before they let you buy the parts. And sometimes you can only get the parts from online sources if its an unusual brand.

Its not a really big deal to get CSST training for a specific brand (its usually online), but I found it was cheaper and easier to buy the brand stocked by the local HVAC dealer than it was to try to match what was already installed.

Bruce

 

[nadogail]

Mark me down for recommending Black Pipe.

 

[allinon72]

I am now leaning toward black pipe. My question is how do you secure it on both ends so it’s secure? If I drill a hole in the sill plate and the top plate, feed in a length of back pipe, how do I keep it in place?

 

[75gmck25]

How do you plan to get black pipe from the attic down to the basement? You need about 9-10 feet of pipe to get through the 1st story, and the angle is wrong to feed it up from the basement. If you are lucky its going into the gable end of the attic and you may have enough height to feed it down from the attic.

You can use metal riser pipe clamps around the pipe to stop it from dropping down any farther than you want. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-4-in-Steel-Riser-Pipe-Clamp-33581/301505425
I don't know if these clamps are harder to find for small diameter pipe, but you see them all the time in commercial applications to hold vertical iron pipe that goes through a floor. If the pipe goes across the room in the joist cavity, I add blocking to support the pipe every few feet.

Bruce

 

[allinon72]

How do you plan to get black pipe from the attic down to the basement? You need about 9-10 feet of pipe to get through the 1st story, and the angle is wrong to feed it up from the basement. If you are lucky its going into the gable end of the attic and you may have enough height to feed it down from the attic.

You can use metal riser pipe clamps around the pipe to stop it from dropping down any farther than you want. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-4-in-Steel-Riser-Pipe-Clamp-33581/301505425
I don't know if these clamps are harder to find for small diameter pipe, but you see them all the time in commercial applications to hold vertical iron pipe that goes through a floor. If the pipe goes across the room in the joist cavity, I add blocking to support the pipe every few feet.

Bruce

Lucky for me, I have a very steep and tall roof, so plenty of clearance to feed from attic straight down into the basement. I also have 12ft ceilings so the run isn't a short one.

 

[mobetta]

In my jurisdiction threaded fittings ARE NOT ALLOWED inside a wall or anywhere they are not accessible. CSST is one way to avoid this. Also here homeowners ARE NOT allowed to do gas work.

other options-
soft copper- (flared fittings are not allowed to be buried. )

hard copper (brazed or pressed w/ gas fittings)

or black iron w/ press fittings.

If it were me I'd have my plumber run CSST or soft copper

 

[HoosierBuddy]

If it were me I'd have my plumber run CSST or soft copper

Many local gas utilities either discourage or do not allow copper piping for natural gas.

NFC's guidance is that it is not allowed if sulfides are at or above a threshold as the sulfides can cause corrosion in the copper. Personally, I've never seen copper used with natural gas corrode to the point it leaks....but I've seen many instances where a black powder forms in the piping and gets sucked into orifices and plugs them up. I used to have to clean out the orifice in my gas light annually where it was fed with a 15 foot coiled section of copper tube in the post. Once replaced with a piece of pipe and a stainless appliance connector, I've never cleaned it again.

My utility discourages copper but doesn't prohibit it. My take on it is even if sulfides of the gas stream are low enough that it won't be dangerous, it can cause extra maintenance. Drip legs downstream of the copper would help. Not possible in my gas light situation.


Phil

 

[mobetta]

Interesting. I've never run across an issue up here. I am not an appliance or gas guy tho.

This is why getting a local pro is beneficial. Theres a lot of variety as to what's allowed and recommended state by state, county by county...

Irrelevant but Here they just switched to not needing a drip leg unless the appliance is self lighting.(ie range no, furnace yes)

 

[rebelranger]

CSST is the way to go. I have over 240k BTU heaters professionally installed in a business I owned and they literally just ran it on hangers in the attic.

 

[allinon72]

After way too much research, I’ve decided to go with Tracpipe from my existing gas manifold right up the wall and into the attic, where I’ll transition it into black pipe and down through the ceiling to the heater. Reason being - it allows me to easily fish a continuous run through the wall. I would have been looking at close to a 20ft length of black pipe, which I would have to transition to the CSST on one end anyway.

 

[allinon72]

Just as a final update - I ordered 25ft of Tracpipe and 2 male adapters. Was able to easily fish the pipe through an empty wall cavity to the attic. Used the appropriate CSST protection sleeves in both top and bottom plate penetrations. Watched the Tracpipe video on the proper connection procedure about 47 times and it is dead easy, but not something you’d know how to do without the specific instructions. Transitions in the attic to black pipe, secured to rafters, and drops down to the heater. Definitely recommend CSST in the right applications - it’s quite simple as long as you follow the manufacturers instructions.