Flexible space vs. posts for lift

[dhubbard422]

Hi All,

I'd appreciate your thoughts regarding the layouts that I am considering and whether you'd go for a more useful auto lift or for a more flexible space (the layouts I've drawn show the space tradeoffs). I'm pretty much locked into the size (24'x36') as the lot was cleared and the site prepped for a slab of this size last week.

FYI, I'm planning on going with a Morton building.

Basically, I'm trying to fit the following into the shop:
- car lift
- motorcycle table lift
- dirt bike lift
- dirty/noisy room (compressor, parts washer, bead blaster, etc)
- fabrication area (welder, welding table, mini lathe/mill, it'll be a while before all of this fab goodness shows up...)
- desk/computer/TV
- lots of workbenches (rolling)
- cabinet storage

The basic layout with windows & doors
<a href="http://s328.photobucket.com/user/dhubbard422/media/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/1_24x36x12-Morton_Morton_zps148dbf93.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l328/dhubbard422/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/1_24x36x12-Morton_Morton_zps148dbf93.png" border="0" alt=" photo 1_24x36x12-Morton_Morton_zps148dbf93.png"/></a>

Add the dirty room:
<a href="http://s328.photobucket.com/user/dhubbard422/media/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/2_24x36x12-Morton_MortonStorage_zpsf4a09f93.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l328/dhubbard422/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/2_24x36x12-Morton_MortonStorage_zpsf4a09f93.png" border="0" alt=" photo 2_24x36x12-Morton_MortonStorage_zpsf4a09f93.png"/></a>

Plan layout w/ 2 post lift & 12' ceiling:
<a href="http://s328.photobucket.com/user/dhubbard422/media/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/3_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayout_zps8c382526.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l328/dhubbard422/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/3_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayout_zps8c382526.png" border="0" alt=" photo 3_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayout_zps8c382526.png"/></a>

Plan layout w/ flush in-ground scissor lift w/ 10' ceiling (12' is still an option):
<a href="http://s328.photobucket.com/user/dhubbard422/media/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/4_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayoutcopy_zps82a8cba3.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l328/dhubbard422/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/4_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayoutcopy_zps82a8cba3.png" border="0" alt=" photo 4_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayoutcopy_zps82a8cba3.png"/></a>

Origami-like solution to view interior elevations:
<a href="http://s328.photobucket.com/user/dhubbard422/media/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/5_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayoutcopy2_zpsfccbf89a.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l328/dhubbard422/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/5_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayoutcopy2_zpsfccbf89a.png" border="0" alt=" photo 5_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayoutcopy2_zpsfccbf89a.png"/></a>

Another view of interior elevations:
<a href="http://s328.photobucket.com/user/dhubbard422/media/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/6_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayoutcopy3_zpsa8898a06.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l328/dhubbard422/Workshop/Workshop%20Plans/6_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayoutcopy3_zpsa8898a06.png" border="0" alt=" photo 6_24x36x12-Morton_InteriorLayoutcopy3_zpsa8898a06.png"/></a>


The main choice I'm wrestling with is 2-post vs in-ground low rise lift. I believe that the 2 post would be more useful for a greater variety of tasks, but, I also fear that the 2-post lift will be a pain, especially when trying to get bikes up on the lifts (or just moving stuff from the front to the back of the shop). And yes, I know that this looks like a lot of stuff in a small space. I also expect the design to evolve...

My thoughts on the lifts:

• 2 post: I like everything about a basic 6' 2-post lift except the fact that the posts will be in the way (given my space and budget constraints a 2 post lift also means fewer workbenches & harder to access motorcycle lifts)
• BendPak P-6FB flush: Rarely in the way (flat floor), but it only lifts 26" - 29", however, I can still access the center of the car (but, only if laying on my back). I am leaning towards this lift, but I'm afraid that I'll kick myself about the lack of height...

Alternatives:
MaxJax: Mid-rise lift height (sitting) but... I'm not sure I completely trust the concrete anchors that hold the lift in place..
QuickJack: A modest improvement over jack stands...

I also have an attached 2 car garage and one bay has a 13' ceiling. Someday I hope to put a 4 post lift in it for parking a 3rd car and for basic maintenance such as oil changes, so a 2 post lift in the workshop might be a bit redundant.

Currently, the car that would habitat the workshop is tiny, a Lotus 7 clone. And the dirt bike lift could be pushed out of the way as it would be used (most of the time) to display a '74 TY250 trials bike.

If you have read this far... what are your thoughts? Re: lift options or the layout in general.

Thanks,
Don


Links:
BendPak flush in ground scissor: http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/specialty-lifts/p-6fb.aspx
MaxJax: http://www.dannmar.com/dannmar-products/two-post-lifts/maxjax.asp
QuickJack: http://www.quickjack.com

My intro thread: "Howdy Y'all...".

 

[zkdiesel]

Rotary inground full-size two post lift. Problem solved

 

[dhubbard422]

Rotary inground full-size two post lift. Problem solved

Thanks zkdiesel, that lift probably affords the best use of space in combination with a very useful lift! I did consider it and I should have mentioned it as an alternative, but the cost (high) and the requirement to dig 110" down (more budget breaking expense) in order to set the lift scared me off. In this part of the country folks on a budget (like me) have to watch how much they dig (especially how deep they dig) as they often very quickly run into solid limestone. My lot prep was already somewhat expensive due to the modest slope and the amount of fill that was brought in (19) 14 cu yd loads.

Thanks for the suggestion!
Don

 

[dhubbard422]

I guess in part, my question for this thread is also about y'alls opinions as to how much walk-around space you feel is "comfortable" on either side of a 2-post lift?

1', aka "squeeze by"...
2', turn the shoulders
3', ride a dirt bike by
4', ride the street bike by

How close to a post would you put a workbench? I thought I'd have to remove the workbench closest to the post as there was only about a foot of clearance. The clearance to the bike lifts might be 2'. Thoughts?

 

[Ray916MN]

As you site prep is done, I doubt this is going to help, but if I were laying out this building, I'd put 2 garage doors on and eave side of the building instead of a single door on a gable end. This would reduce the amount of space you need to keep clear so you can squeeze things in and out. It will also limit the depth of what you can park in the workshop to a full size crewcab shortbed truck with a limited amount of room to work around the front or back of this size truck. I'd also consider mounting everything and anything you can up high (ie. the compressor) and consider getting rid of the dirty/noisy room. Your current layout crams so much stuff into the space, that I think you're going to find that when you go to work on anything you're going to be lacking workspace and project parts storage space.

 

[dhubbard422]

As you site prep is done, I doubt this is going to help, but if I were laying out this building, I'd put 2 garage doors on and eave side of the building instead of a single door on a gable end. This would reduce the amount of space you need to keep clear so you can squeeze things in and out. It will also limit the depth of what you can park in the workshop to a full size crewcab shortbed truck with a limited amount of room to work around the front or back of this size truck.

Ray, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. All of my initial plans showed 2 (or 3) doors on the long eave side (I agree that 2 doors on the long side has advantages). Then I measured the slope of my lot. Even in my flattest potential building spot, what looked like a modest slope to my untrained eyes, was about 4' of vertical difference across the corners on the diagonal. Turning the shop 90 degrees such that the narrow gable end is facing the driveway dropped the vertical difference to about 2.5'. For the current layout, we brought in (19) 14 cubic yd truck loads of base to create a level platform for the slab. Of course, turning the building also meant my approach into the shop would be on the narrow end.

I'd also consider mounting everything and anything you can up high (ie. the compressor) and consider getting rid of the dirty/noisy room. Your current layout crams so much stuff into the space, that I think you're going to find that when you go to work on anything you're going to be lacking workspace and project parts storage space.

I had previously seen your build thread and thought that your palette rack for bike storage was very cool.

I am still thinking about adding cabinets high along both side walls for additional storage. I am also considering decking the top of the dirty/noisy room for large item project parts storage. The dirty room does limit the space somewhat, but it also creates extra wall space, so it is a bit of a tradeoff.

I too worry that I will have a lack of open floor space. My first thought was that I either need to give up a wall of workbenches, the 2-post lift or both. The more I think about it, I think that the Bendpak P-6FB low-rise scissor lift will be adequate for this space and it'll free up the space that the posts of a 2-post lift would occupy.

Rather than giving up workbenches, I may just go down to one bike workspace. This workshop will only accommodate a limited number of projects and I think I can easily live with just 1 bike and 1 car project at a time. The limited space may even help me stay focused!

To your point of making it easier to get things in and out of the shop, perhaps I should move the "office" corner and put the bike workspace where it is... I'll do some doodling and post later.

Thanks again.

 

[dhubbard422]

Here's a floorplan with less stuff and one and one-half bays on gable end.

<a href="http://s328.photobucket.com/user/dhubbard422/media/Workshop/24x36x12-1bike-1car_zps54b09428.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l328/dhubbard422/Workshop/24x36x12-1bike-1car_zps54b09428.png" border="0" alt=" photo 24x36x12-1bike-1car_zps54b09428.png"/></a>

 

[Badhabit]

What about a flush mount full lift scissor lift like a Challenger DX77 or something like that. I have the same size shop but with two doors on the end instead of a single door, so I can get two cars in side by side so bikes would have lots of room to get in.

 

[Mech33]

I had a finial debate and went in-ground scissor lift (the EE-6503). What software did you use for your drawings? They look great.

 

[High5]

I would consider either moving the air compressor somewhere else or move the buffer to another location. Or maybe compartment the air compressor. Buffer's sling a large amount of compound.

 

[dhubbard422]

What about a flush mount full lift scissor lift like a Challenger DX77 or something like that. I have the same size shop but with two doors on the end instead of a single door, so I can get two cars in side by side so bikes would have lots of room to get in.

I like the idea of a full height scissor lift and I wish I could have gotten in on the group buy of the EE-6503... The group buy had a heck of a nice price. Cost of a full height in ground scissor lift is a bit of an issue. Basically, I could buy the low rise P-6FB and a 2 post lift for what one of these full height scissor lifts cost now and I could use another lift in my attached garage...

I had a finial debate and went in-ground scissor lift (the EE-6503).

How do you like the EE-6503? Is there a comfortable amount of space between the scissors for working on the middle of a car?

What software did you use for your drawings? They look great.

Thanks. I used Adobe Illustrator to create the sketches. I use Adobe's Creative Suite at work. Illustrator might not be the best tool for this type of sketches, but for me it's fast and familiar.

Thanks for the thoughts, ideas and suggestions!
Don

 

[dhubbard422]

I would consider either moving the air compressor somewhere else or move the buffer to another location. Or maybe compartment the air compressor. Buffer's sling a large amount of compound.

I could see adding a lean-to off the back at some point in the future to house the air compressor. Maybe just behind the dirty room.

 

[dhubbard422]

I would consider either moving the air compressor somewhere else or move the buffer to another location. Or maybe compartment the air compressor. Buffer's sling a large amount of compound.

Yeah, the buffer can be nasty. I hope to build a stand for it that I can drag outside.

Thanks for your post.

 

[High5]

Yeah, the buffer can be nasty. I hope to build a stand for it that I can drag outside.

Thanks for your post.

You're welcome.

And that's the way to go. I drag mine outside.

 

[msgross]

I can't see your pics, at work, but am getting ready to build the same size as you. I'm leaning towards a 4 post lift myself. I can move it around, put a platform in the middle for quads, mowers etc... and raise the project truck up to the ceiling and store items underneath...

 

[dhubbard422]

I can't see your pics, at work, but am getting ready to build the same size as you. I'm leaning towards a 4 post lift myself. I can move it around, put a platform in the middle for quads, mowers etc... and raise the project truck up to the ceiling and store items underneath...

When you get a chance, check out the sketches, I'd be interested in your feedback.

If you haven't already, you should check out Ray916MN's garage! He has a very interesting storage system for his bikes.

 

[msgross]

that's a neat idea...

Have you thought about a single wide door on your garage? It would let a lot of light and air in.

 

[dhubbard422]

Have you thought about a single wide door on your garage? It would let a lot of light and air in.

Yes. Probably be cheaper too. Unfortunately, I really like carriage doors. Unfortunate for me only because they are expensive.

My shop might look something like Ryan's Atomic Shop (site admin), especially if I go with carriage doors. I have decided to use a galvalume finish as opposed to paint for the metal siding on my workshop.

Evergreen Carriage Doors makes a really nice 3 piece set OL6L that I am considering, but my complaining about lift expense is kinda' silly if I splurge on a set of these doors...

Anyway, I've also been looking at threads on building my own carriage doors... this site is bad for encouraging this type of behavior as there are too many talented folks that do so much DIY.

 

[Ray916MN]

Ray, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. All of my initial plans showed 2 (or 3) doors on the long eave side (I agree that 2 doors on the long side has advantages). Then I measured the slope of my lot. Even in my flattest potential building spot, what looked like a modest slope to my untrained eyes, was about 4' of vertical difference across the corners on the diagonal. Turning the shop 90 degrees such that the narrow gable end is facing the driveway dropped the vertical difference to about 2.5'. For the current layout, we brought in (19) 14 cubic yd truck loads of base to create a level platform for the slab. Of course, turning the building also meant my approach into the shop would be on the narrow end.
...

Your site has a bunch of the same challenges mine did. One layout I considered which might work for you is a gable car door on one end and an eave side car or smaller door at the other end of the building. You could even achieve something like this by using French doors on the eave side. Depending on orientation, this approach could dramatically increase your natural light and ventilation while minimizing wall space loss.

Laying out this way would give you motorcycle and car ends of the shop. With the dirty/noisy room in the corner of the motorcycle end, you would end up with an open workshop otherwise and an easy way to segregate the stuff you need to work on bikes versus cars/trucks. As bikes don't require allot of ceiling height, this would also allow you to loft the area over the bike and noisy/dirty room end of the shop. Put the fab table on wheels and make it so it can store under a work bench and you'll add allot of space flexibility. I have roller tool cabinet and carts which fit under my benches too so I can get more top space and minimize the amount of back and forth I need to do to get to tools when working on projects.

 

[Strouty]

If you are planing a new shop could you go to a taller building? I have 12'6" ceilings and I would love to have taller. If you went to 14' you could add a second level for your office/hangout space. Storage lofts are always cool and then you can get a two post lift that will allow your truck to go full height without an issue. I know it will be more expensive, but if I had a choice I would forget the fancy doors and the lift and get the taller building. You can buy a lift anytime, same with fancy doors. I would spend the money where it counts now, it will save you headaches later.

 

[dhubbard422]

Your site has a bunch of the same challenges mine did. One layout I considered which might work for you is a gable car door on one end and an eave side car or smaller door at the other end of the building. You could even achieve something like this by using French doors on the eave side. Depending on orientation, this approach could dramatically increase your natural light and ventilation while minimizing wall space loss.

Laying out this way would give you motorcycle and car ends of the shop. With the dirty/noisy room in the corner of the motorcycle end, you would end up with an open workshop otherwise and an easy way to segregate the stuff you need to work on bikes versus cars/trucks. As bikes don't require allot of ceiling height, this would also allow you to loft the area over the bike and noisy/dirty room end of the shop. Put the fab table on wheels and make it so it can store under a work bench and you'll add allot of space flexibility. I have roller tool cabinet and carts which fit under my benches too so I can get more top space and minimize the amount of back and forth I need to do to get to tools when working on projects.

I like the idea of a large man door opposite the dirty room on the east wall. A 4' (motorcycle) door might be interesting, I'll have to look into that. I've gone back and forth a bit as to whether or not the fab area is best in the back corner or on a side wall - there are advantages to both layouts.

I am planning to put all of the workbenches, tables,... just about everything that is on the floor, on wheels. So reconfiguring the space shouldn't be a gigantic task. I also like the idea of nesting work spaces when not in use in order to create space.

I may also make one of the workbenches a folding workbench. If I can figure out how to combine a folding workbench and a pair of work spaces that nest together... I could free up quite a bit of space when a project required it. I gotta' look into this.

Thanks for the ideas!

 

[dhubbard422]

If you are planing a new shop could you go to a taller building? I have 12'6" ceilings and I would love to have taller. If you went to 14' you could add a second level for your office/hangout space. Storage lofts are always cool and then you can get a two post lift that will allow your truck to go full height without an issue. I know it will be more expensive, but if I had a choice I would forget the fancy doors and the lift and get the taller building. You can buy a lift anytime, same with fancy doors. I would spend the money where it counts now, it will save you headaches later.

I like the Morton Building I'm planning on having built, but I think that their truss systems make you go with even taller side walls for a useful loft. With the standard Morton truss, I'd have to go to 16' walls to get a really useful loft.

I considered getting this post and beam kit from Sand Creek. I really, really like this building and the roof beams make it really easy to get a nice usable loft, even with just 12' side walls. Unfortunately, the kit + shipping is quite a bit more than the Morton Building (almost double).

 

[zkdiesel]

My standard flat truss 14' tall building has a feet useable loft above. You don't jump and do activites up there, but parts, tool storage, air compressor a few chairs up there it is more usefull
Buildings over 14' tall and not big footage look very odd and sometimes very ugly.
I have a 12' 24x34, a 14' 40x60, a 17' 40x60, 2 17' 60x120 a 13' 50x70 and a 20' 50x250
The smaller ones look much better near houses, fit in better and not
So much of an eyesore. The first two buildings I listed are at my house, all the rest are at the "farm", and they barely fit in there

 

[dhubbard422]

My standard flat truss 14' tall building has a feet useable loft above. You don't jump and do activites up there, but parts, tool storage, air compressor a few chairs up there it is more usefull
Buildings over 14' tall and not big footage look very odd and sometimes very ugly.
I have a 12' 24x34, a 14' 40x60, a 17' 40x60, 2 17' 60x120 a 13' 50x70 and a 20' 50x250
The smaller ones look much better near houses, fit in better and not
So much of an eyesore. The first two buildings I listed are at my house, all the rest are at the "farm", and they barely fit in there

Wow. You have an amazing amount of shop space. Yes, tall buildings can look a bit out of place in a residential area. We're rural and mostly surrounded by larger properties, but I and my immediate neighbors (all two of them...) are on modest small acreage parcels (less than 5 acres) and one of my neighbors will have a filtered view of my shop from his front porch... Anyway, I am trying to be a good neighbor. I kept some trees that should help block his view of the shop and I'll probably go with shorter walls to keep the building looking nice. A 14' plate line sure could give a nice loft space though. Thanks for the suggestions!