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Floor heat sanity check

mikepelchy

Active member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
44
Location
Surrey, ND
I have an older house where the original foyer had porches on the north and south sides that were converted into indoor space very crudely. Over the past couple of years I torn out the old porch on the south side and replaced it when frost wall, floor joists at floor level and then we ended up putting in an 8ft sliding glass door into the back yard. On the north side I ended up doing a frost wall and slab on grab so the stairs to get to the main floor would be inside versus outside and when I did the slab I did put two loops of pex in the slab, which I used give or take an 8" spacing. We currently had 1500w electric baseboard heater out there that is turned on high from fall to spring and some days it just keep up well and there is some ambient heat coming from main portion of the house from where the foyer opens up into the kitchen. I have thought about running some duct work from out forced hot air furnace out there but that won't be an easy task due to the layout of the basement and all of the other utilities that are in the way.

Based on my crude math, the electric baseboard heaters use 1080kwh which puts me at about $80/month max on the electric bill and I would say they get turned on in late Sept/early Oct and are on until end of May, so looking at about 8 months of use. I did a rough sketch of the layout of the foyer as the flooring is more of less broken down into 3 different sections, its not to scale and I didn't go count the rafters and spacing to figure out the loops exactly, this was just to try and get the thoughts out of my head. As previously stated, I did do insulation under the concrete slab with 2 loops of 1/2" pex (probably could have just been one) on 8" spacing. The idea for the two other sections of floor would be to run loops of pex under the floor using aluminum heat sinks and then putting in some insulation to keep the heat up. I am tossing around the idea of possibly using a point-of-use electric water heater to do radiant heat, with a 4 way manifold that had adjustable flow valves so it could be fine tuned a little. My thought would be to have a line-voltage thermostat mounted in the foyer to control the pump and then the hot water heater would just do its own thing automatically. I did seem some pretty simple setups in the floor heat setup topic that forcing me to consider doing this. The shopping list I included isn't inclusive, I kow I would need an expansion tank and pressure relief vavle plus all of the heatsink peices and some more pex tubing. I am thinking I could get the system up and going just heating the slab for now and then add the two other loops as time permits.
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ipgenie

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
562
Location
Idaho
I have floor heat in my house with concrete floors upstairs and down. I like the comfort of warm tile and the quiet of the system. A few years ago I installed solar on my shop, shortly after I added an electric water heater to my propane boiler system. It's able to heat the water with three sources, in order of priority, solar hot water collector on the roof, electric water heater and a propane boiler.

The electric water heater has worked out well and the propane boiler rarely fires up. However, the electric water heater is RESISTIVE heat just like your electric baseboard heater. I think the net cost to run one vs the other will be nearly identical.

If you want the comfort and the benefit of quick water evaporation and the quiet of floor heat, go for it. You'll have a few hundred in upfront costs for the water heater, pump and controls. But if you want to do it to save electricity, you'll be disappointed. Using our electric water heater for floor heating puts it by far at the highest energy consumer of our household. Last month it used 2400kWh. Our electric car used less than 700kWh and that is the second highest consumer by quite a bit.

Because of the solar PV array on the shop it works for us but I wouldn't use resistive electric heat if we didn't have solar panels to provide the electricity.

If you can use a small mini split in that space, you will be able to save on electricity. It'll probably cost you about the same as adding the water heater system if you can install it yourself.
 
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mikepelchy

Active member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
44
Location
Surrey, ND
If you can use a small mini split in that space, you will be able to save on electricity. It'll probably cost you about the same as adding the water heater system if you can install it yourself.

I was thinking about that route as well. When looking into the MrCool ones, the couple that I looked at were rated down to -13*F and I am located in North Central ND where it gets at least that cold for couple weeks each winter (this year it seems like we've had more cold temps and sooner). I am sure there are some out there that might work down to -30*F like I would be looking for, but I am guessing they wouldn't be cheap.
 

ipgenie

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
562
Location
Idaho
The Pioneer I installed in our kitchen/dining area is rated to -13, but last winter we had a cold snap (SE Idaho) in the - 20s for a few nights and it never shut down due to the temps. Our other mini is rated down to 5 degrees and it did shut down but it was somewhere just below zero. I think Mitsubishi has one that goes lower than -20 but I have no experience with them.

Worst case though, kick the baseboard heater on for that cold spell and use the mini the rest of the winter
 
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