Floor jack leaking down

[iowabucks]

I have an Allied 3 1/2 ton floor jack that leaks down fairly quick. Does not leak fluid, but after doing a clutch change last weekend i realized it wouldn't hold the ****** up very long before you had to pump it up some more.

I have never had one of these apart before. What part/parts usually wear out in these? And can they be found easily?

 

[Snappy]

sounds like a question for Hiball

 

[iowabucks]

I always use jackstands. I can't stand the thought of what it would be like if it came down on me unexpectedly.

This jack does have two adjustments on both sides of the release spindle. You explained what i should check with the overload. But that one (the one on the right) has an orange cap over it that says do not adjust. Is it safe to do what you recommend?

I'm guessing it is. It's just probably there to keep you from adjusting it the wrong way and not working at all.

Also, sometimes it seems like you have to have gorilla arms to turn the handle and get it to drop. Not always, just sometimes. Is there anything i can do to help that?

 

[rhandwor]

http://blackhawkparts.com/store/page28.html
Call and ask for a parts list and price for your jack. They will help you out.

 

[iowabucks]

I took out the plug on the right side (6 1/2 turns) and had about 1oz of fluid come out onto the bench. There was no second screw underneath. Here is a picture of the location and the plug i took out.

 

[iowabucks]

I meant for you to check how many turns it took to get completely tight

Duh, stupid me. I read your post and knew what i had to do, but for some reason i felt like i had to take that out when i got there.

Anyways....Tightened it down and backed it off a half turn. Jacked it up and stood on the jack for two minutes. (No cars around). Lost two inches of height in two minutes, so i'm guessing thats not the problem.

 

[Hiball]

Duh, stupid me. I read your post and knew what i had to do, but for some reason i felt like i had to take that out when i got there.

Anyways....Tightened it down and backed it off a half turn. Jacked it up and stood on the jack for two minutes. (No cars around). Lost two inches of heigth in two minutes, so i'm guessing thats not the problem.

Well its either the seat is bad beneath that spindle/gear. Or there is something contaminating the valve seats ( other plug on left side) or the Main ram is compromised. If you have a small magnet, block the back of the jack up, remove the valve plug on the other side and remove each ball and springs/spacers and inspect for contaminates.. rubber, metal shavings etc.

 

[iowabucks]

I took the plug out of the left side and pulled out a longer cone shaped spring. I didn't have a magnetic pointer so i magnetized an awl i had in my toolbox. I couldn't pull anything else up. This jack has never been apart before. Back together again it wont hold my weight. Same as before.

What about the smaller piston to the left of the left plug? I don't claim to know anything about floorjacks but when i was younger i took the piston out of one that wouldn't work. It had an o-ring on it and a plastic cup on the end that was broken and missing half of it. Could there be something in there worn out? Or do the sysmptoms point other places?

 

[Hiball]

I took the plug out of the left side and pulled out a longer cone shaped spring. I didn't have a magnetic pointer so i magnetized an awl i had in my toolbox. I couldn't pull anything else up. This jack has never been apart before. Back together again it wont hold my weight. Same as before.

What about the smaller piston to the left of the left plug? I don't claim to know anything about floorjacks but when i was younger i took the piston out of one that wouldn't work. It had an o-ring on it and a plastic cup on the end that was broken and missing half of it. Could there be something in there worn out? Or do the sysmptoms point other places?

yeah that is called the pump and has nothing to do with holding pressure. Below that spring there is a Big ball and should be a smaller one. Without taking the balls out and checking them for creases, contaminates etc you cant verify that they are working correctly and or if the seats are compromised. The release gear is the next place to look you will need a proper sized wrench or a big crecent, and you will have to remove the handle assembly to get it out. You will have to take out 2 bolts, 1 on each side at the top then remove the springs and unscrew the gear from the bottom... Dont start at the top and remove the little nut you are just asking for trouble on getting things lined back up and in the proper height. Under that gear you will find a square washer that the needle shut off sits in at the end of that needle you will either have a needle or flat square stock, If its square there should be a ball in there pull it out and check it over.

 

[iowabucks]

Ok, thanks Hiball. I'll have to get at that tommorrow.

 

[Hiball]

Ok, thanks Hiball. I'll have to get at that tommorrow.

My personal opinion being that it wasnt the overload and its not even holding your weight is that 1. the valve is compromised (left plug) get a magnet and pull out the balls. 2. the release/apply ball is compromised (under the spider gear)

 

[Bobbie]

I'd like to jump in here if that is OK.

I also have a 10 year old Allied 3 1/2 ton SUV floor jack, picked it up at a garage sale.

It pumps up fine and holds fine, but it lets down way too fast once you turn the release lever, almost a free fall. I've tried very carefully to see if I could let it down slowly by very very slowly turning the release; no difference, it comes down fast.

I mistakenly opened the valve on the left that has balls and one spring; I think the previous owner also opened this area. What I don't know is whether anything is missing. I found two check balls and one spring, no spring between the two balls, just a larger one that sits on the larger top ball.

Any ideas what is causing my jack to fall once it is released?

 

[Tim M]

Sorry for dredging up this thread but I have the identical allied 3 1/2 ton jack. It holds fine but I have the same release problem. Very scary. It lets down all at once. Did anyone find the fix for this?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[BajaBound]

Is there such thing as a thread that is too old?

 

[94yj]

Is there such thing as a thread that is too old?

not that i have ever heard of

 

[theoldwizard1]

Hiball, I thought that the most common failure of a jack that would not lift/leaked down (with no external leaks) was fluid leaking past the main piston cup seal.

 

[Hiball]

Hiball, I thought that the most common failure of a jack that would not lift/leaked down (with no external leaks) was fluid leaking past the main piston cup seal.

It Really depends on the Model, These Yasui designed jacks are notorious for Overload issues. Ive yet to decide whether its Issues with the Spring Rate or the Adjusting Cap backing off. Regardless ive personally checked Units that come into the shop and they bypass well before there Rated Tonnage. Generally when the Main Piston Seal starts to fail you will notice a little bit of leakage at the Tank Nut area as the Single Seals (Oring/Quad Ring) Really arent designed to prevent large amounts of oil.

As far as the "UnControllable" Release that plagues some of these Jacks, Its 2 part.

1st... The Oil passage from the Seat to Reservoir is just 2 Large and allows oil to Return under pressure way too fast IMO.

2ndly.. These Jacks tend to get Overtightend over the years and the Gears get Bent ever so slightly and it causes the Release to Jump upon Twisting the Handle.

 

[RangerDaleXp]

I have an Allied 3 1/2 ton floor jack that leaks down fairly quick. Does not leak fluid, but after doing a clutch change last weekend i realized it wouldn't hold the ****** up very long before you had to pump it up some more.

I have never had one of these apart before. What part/parts usually wear out in these? And can they be found easily?

Funny, I have a Allied 4 ton that has always leaked down since it was new. It is about 15 years old. It was a gift and never returned it and don't use it much because because of the problem.

 

[Tim M]

Cleaned up and greased the gears and it got a little better.

I also went and picked up an Arcan XL35 ($105 at Costco). The arcan is immensely better as it has a universal joint release control similar to higher ends floor jacks. Very precise control.

 

[Billy7394]

Yes the one with the cap that has the warning is the overload. That is where i would start first. When you remove the cap and the top screw as stated there should be a another threaded screw inside. Turn it clockwise and count the revolutions it should only take the max of 1 turn if it takes more tighten it down tight and back it off 1/2 turn.

Hiball- I know old thread, but google found your response, I did as you stated on my Allied 3 Ton floor jack, model 45426...
Screw had backed out 1-1/2 turns, now I set it at 1/2 out & marked it with a silver sharpie..

Works Great now...
I bought this jack new well over 20 yrs ago & only problem prior to this was replace the Dust seal / back-up Ring / & O-ring on the Piston pump..........

Thank You, I appreciate your post..

 

[Hiball]

Hiball- I know old thread, but google found your response, I did as you stated on my Allied 3 Ton floor jack, model 45426...
Screw had backed out 1-1/2 turns, now I set it at 1/2 out & marked it with a silver sharpie..

Works Great now...
I bought this jack new well over 20 yrs ago & only problem prior to this was replace the Dust seal / back-up Ring / & O-ring on the Piston pump..........

Thank You, I appreciate your post..

Glad it worked out.. Its not always the Overload but ive come to the conclusion that those springs lose there tension over the years and/or back off reducing the amount of tonnage they will lift. Always remember to use Jack stands and be leary of what your lifting because without a Test Station its impossible to know if you have that Overload too tight.

 

[Billy7394]

Hiball- Yep so far so good..

I never go under anything without plenty of jackstands under first..

Then I let the pressure off the jack, to be sure the stands have it, & I believe helps the jack live a longer life too...(as well as me)..

I have a tiny weep on the left side screw, but has been that way for years.

Doesn't bother me, but figured I'd just mention it..

Thanks again, Billy

 

[barracuda66]

I know this is an old thread but i have the same Allied 45426 jack. I'd like to see if anyone has a parts diagram or repair manual for it. Did anyone ever find someone with a kit to overhaul it?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Hiball]

I know this is an old thread but i have the same Allied 45426 jack. I'd like to see if anyone has a parts diagram or repair manual for it. Did anyone ever find someone with a kit to overhaul it?
Thanks in advance.

There is a link in my signature that has other links to valuable members threads in regards to hydraulic jacks components and repair. This one in particular will cover your jack with some variation, but should get you started. Hope this helps..

 

[1jow]

What causes a Blackhawk floor jack to bleed down? Could it simply be that I am not turning it off hard enough?

1. The jack has worked fine since the 70s rebuild except leather seals adjusted or replaced in the pump to solve a leak. It held a 12 hr test w/o a leak or leak/down.
2. I pulled the off/on screw assembly, pointed valve vs a ball in the off/on well and it looked fine with no contamination showing.
3. I remember the Tech in the 70s using a flat punch to seat or crush contamination on a ball bearing that I am not relating with now.
4. I have no specific # or model of the jack except old part #s from the 70s.

Thanks for any help on the concern.

 

[Hiball]

What causes a Blackhawk floor jack to bleed down? Could it simply be that I am not turning it off hard enough?

1. The jack has worked fine since the 70s rebuild except leather seals adjusted or replaced in the pump to solve a leak. It held a 12 hr test w/o a leak or leak/down.
2. I pulled the off/on screw assembly, pointed valve vs a ball in the off/on well and it looked fine with no contamination showing.
3. I remember the Tech in the 70s using a flat punch to seat or crush contamination on a ball bearing that I am not relating with now.
4. I have no specific # or model of the jack except old part #s from the 70s.

Thanks for any help on the concern.

It's impossible to diagnose over the Internet, there are a few tell tale signs that can indicate particular area/issues, for instance handle feedback under load indicates a seat issue with the upper ball. What kind of leak down are you talking about? What type of Load are we talking about? Part number off the Jack? Seats can be re-seated with some lights taps with a Clean/properly sized ball, I've never heard of trying to crush contamination.. without tearing into the Jack it's impossible to completely rule out a failing main piston seal.

 

[1jow]

It's impossible to diagnose over the Internet, there are a few tell tale signs that can indicate particular area/issues, for instance handle feedback under load indicates a seat issue with the upper ball. I understand this 100%.

What kind of leak down are you talking about? The jack will lower the load until no pressuer over a period of time.

What type of Load are we talking about? Truck/Car's wheels.

Part number off the Jack? No # is seen vs what the 70's Tech IDed it as.

Seats can be re-seated with some lights taps with a Clean/properly sized ball, I've never heard of trying to crush contamination.. without tearing into the Jack it's impossible to completely rule out a failing main piston seal.

The Tech almost gave me a lifetime of seals Etc in the 70s before passing (attached).The 70's Tech saw I had put a bad grade of O-Rings that failed that led to seating ball and flushing before new seals/fluid.

 

[Hiball]

Hmmm... Well, I definitely see some Walker Jack indicators, and I know from personal experience that there was a time where Some Blackhawk jacks appeared to be sharing/stealing some Walker resources, so it's possible that Jack was sold under Blackhawk. I wish I could say 100% Yes or No, but unfortunately I cant. The frame and wheel layout is puzzling, are you from here in the USA?

 

[Crown Imperial]

What's a good value American or European made racing (aluminum) jack? Sorry to threadjack.

 

[Hiball]

What's a good value American or European made racing (aluminum) jack? Sorry to threadjack.

Most of your High end aluminum racing jacks aren't rated for much tonnage, some well under a ton. Are you looking for a Jack for actual race car applications? Or simply just looking for a light Jack? If so, I don't know of any Domestic companies producing aluminum jacks with heavier tonnage capacities.

 

[1jow]

"The frame and wheel layout is puzzling, are you from here in the USA?" Good Catch (Fort Worth, Dallas, TX Metroplex, LOL! We reduced a larger jack for the small needs. Local seal parts (small leather seals) have gone from maybe to no with two left. The leak down is the concern even though I'll always use stands if leak down is a danger. Not getting a leak down in the 12 hrs on the pump seal test is challenging if valve torque is not enough (From Young Hands???). Thanks!!!

 

[Hiball]

"The frame and wheel layout is puzzling, are you from here in the USA?" Good Catch (Fort Worth, Dallas, TX Metroplex, LOL! We reduced a larger jack for the small needs. Local seal parts (small leather seals) have gone from maybe to no with two left. The leak down is the concern even though I'll always use stands if leak down is a danger. Not getting a leak down in the 12 hrs on the pump seal test is challenging if valve torque is not enough (From Young Hands???). Thanks!!!

Leather piston seals are still available, leak down after 12 hours isn't something I would be too alarmed at, it's extremely plausible that it's leaking around the release cone. It appears the release has been modified a bit.. you can definitely try re seating the cone /seat with some light taps. I'll reinterate.. If your leak down is of the 12 hour variety it's going to be difficult to rule out a cylinder/base leak, release leak or simply a Iffy main ram seal. Remember Jacks are only for lifting the load, stands are to support it.

Thanks for the Pictures of your Jack..

 

[Crown Imperial]

Most of your High end aluminum racing jacks aren't rated for much tonnage, some well under a ton. Are you looking for a Jack for actual race car applications? Or simply just looking for a light Jack? If so, I don't know of any Domestic companies producing aluminum jacks with heavier tonnage capacities.

Yes, race car application and just regular home use. Not shop. The whip weighs in at around 3400 lbs total so more than a ton would be good.

There are a few companies I know of but they are just so much damn money. I am willing to pay 2 or 3 times more for a domestic jack over a China one but not 8 to 10 times more.

http://www.brunnhoelzl.com/pro_jacks.html

http://www.mpdracing.com/products/400-Pit-Boss--Aluminum-Race-Jack-%2d-Stock-Car.html