Floor Outlet Help Needed

[MDSPHOTO]

We had a number of projects our electrician was going to come back and punch out after we moved in, but he has refused to finish the work saying the job is too small to come all the way back and since our builder is out of business looks like I'm the new electrician. So need assistance as to what I need to finish up a floor outlet.

Here is the outlet and the wires are live so all I need to do is hook-up the outlet and get it to code.



Here is the size of the box



Judging by these grooves it looks like there might be a proprietary box that might slide into place????




I would like to use a cover plate like this to finish it off.



So I'm sure I can figure out how to wire everything up once I get it, but what all do I need to complete the job to get it to code? Where should I purchase what I need?

P.s. Assume I know nothing about electrical when providing a response.

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

 

[madosta]

Hubbell makes something similar.
http://hubbell-wiring.com/Press/PDFS/H5189.pdf

 

[rockwithjason]

you need to see if you can get any manufacturer's info on this. the parts you need will be unique to this box. call the electrician and see if he has any info on it. also look everywhere on the box for any info. if you can't get the original parts then you will have to homebrew something up. madsota has given you a good lead to follow. other makers of floor boxes include walker, Thomas and bets, pass and seymore legrand, Leviton and eagle.

 

[captain14]

Just for safety's sake do you have the correct tools to complete this? Voltage detector, multimeter , circuit tester? I am sure someone can recommend a good reference book also.

 

[Mustang51js]

Call the electrician and ask him if he has the rest of the parts,see if he will give them to you or purchase them from him. And if you do get it,it's black to brass, white to silver and bare ground to green screw.

 

[Norcal]

If that wire is NM, it's not code compliant since NM cable is for dry locations only. As said by others you need to know who made the floor box since there is no such thing as interchangeability between manufacturers, even with brands under the same umbrella like Hubbell, & Raco.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If this is a grade level garage or shop floor, I'm not so sure a flush floor outlet is even legal. Not familiar enough with that part of the code to know. Indeed, the NM-B (Romex) cannot be used in a slab, directly or in a conduit. Its considered a wet location and NM-B is not approved for wet location use.

Charles

 

[MDSPHOTO]

Thanks for the advice so far! After constant pestering, the electrician will not return my calls. We walked the house with the county inspector and he was **** about the electric and made us take the cover off this box and he said it was to code. The floor is the bonus room on the first floor and is stained concrete. Unless there is some info on the inside of the box not sure how I could get to the outside of it since it is encased in concrete. Will keep you updated.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Take the pics to the local electrical supply houses and match it to something they sell. You can bet the electrical contractor got it from his regular supply house. If you can pin down who he buys from you can probably find it.

Charles

 

[rdsk8ter]

two things come to mind
1) I don't know how strict your inspector is there but here romex isn't allowed to be run like that. might have to pull it out and run Thhn-thwn if it in conduit.
2) I always hate this option but if the contractor is licensed you can file a formal complaint against his or her license with the state fines and fees could be assessed against them or even possible loss of license if you have ground to stand on. You are not leaving any of the story out here no previous altercations or money/ work owed other then this?

 

[rockwithjason]

legal or not, it's there and if there is no condiut he is stuck with the romex. the only option is to finish it out or abandon it.

 

[Norcal]

legal or not, it's there and if there is no condiut he is stuck with the romex. the only option is to finish it out or abandon it.

If no conduit, then the only code compliant way is to abandon it.

 

[sberry]

Is it underground or part of a raised floor?

 

[LB-1911]

Thanks for the advice so far! After constant pestering, the electrician will not return my calls. We walked the house with the county inspector and he was **** about the electric and made us take the cover off this box and he said it was to code. The floor is the bonus room on the first floor and is stained concrete. Unless there is some info on the inside of the box not sure how I could get to the outside of it since it is encased in concrete. Will keep you updated.

This is a "maybe" Contact Arnev Products Inc & include the photo

http://www.arnev.com/Floor-Boxes-for-Concrete-Floors.html

Contact us
http://www.arnev.com/help.php?section=contactus&mode=update

 

[MDSPHOTO]

Okay, able to find Hubbell markings on the PVC box. Sent them pictures and issues and asked for their guidance, will let you know what we find out.

 

[pattenp]

I believe it's a Hubble S1PFB
http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/20...1_a_7c203124&gclid=CJjqn8zZsL0CFYyhOgodwQYAiA
http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/WLBD001.pdf


*

 

[Mustang51js]

Check the wire to see if it's uf wire also.

 

[pattenp]

That's not UF. You can tell the sheathing is not molded to the conductors. Plus I do believe UF is grey not white.

 

[Mustang51js]

New uf is gray but older uf ive seen white and sometimes looks like rx until you look at the end. I figured it's worth a shot to check.

 

[C96]

That electrician is an *******. He should have never left the job incomplete and you hanging like this. Just the fact that he wouldn’t even so much as tell you what brand floor box he installed shows what a frickin ***** he is.

I would be inclined to file the complaint weather he is licensed or not. The ***** didn’t fulfill his contractual agreement (took the money and ran, so to speak) and installed the wrong cable feeding the floor box (code violation). I realize its just one outlet (is it not?) but its **** like this that gives contractors and the construction industry a bad rap.

As the others have stated, (I’m surprised the inspector didn’t pick-up on it) that Romex in there is a code violation. The cable should be type UF and that looks to be type NM.

I’m glad to here you found the manufacture, so parts will be easy for you now. Once you get them, you’ll see how easy it is to install.

Since the incompetent inspector signed off on the floor box wiring, rather than abandon it, I think I would just use it as is.

Anyway, good luck with this, it will all workout in the end.

 

[MDSPHOTO]

I believe it's a Hubble S1PFB
http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/20...1_a_7c203124&gclid=CJjqn8zZsL0CFYyhOgodwQYAiA
http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/WLBD001.pdf


*

Heard back from Hubble last night they've identified the box as their PFB1 non-metallic concrete floor box. Closest electrical supply house is over an hour away so taking a trip Friday to get the parts to finish. Will post pics along the way.

 

[MDSPHOTO]

That electrician is an *******. He should have never left the job incomplete and you hanging like this. Just the fact that he wouldn’t even so much as tell you what brand floor box he installed shows what a frickin ***** he is.

I would be inclined to file the complaint weather he is licensed or not. The ***** didn’t fulfill his contractual agreement (took the money and ran, so to speak) and installed the wrong cable feeding the floor box (code violation). I realize its just one outlet (is it not?) but its **** like this that gives contractors and the construction industry a bad rap.

As the others have stated, (I’m surprised the inspector didn’t pick-up on it) that Romex in there is a code violation. The cable should be type UF and that looks to be type NM.

I’m glad to here you found the manufacture, so parts will be easy for you now. Once you get them, you’ll see how easy it is to install.

Since the incompetent inspector signed off on the floor box wiring, rather than abandon it, I think I would just use it as is.

Anyway, good luck with this, it will all workout in the end.

With the house debacle we have been through so many gov't agencies and none were of any help, settling liens and lawsuits exhausted us and we are moving forward and not dwelling on the past.

What are the potential dangers of NM versus UF cable?

 

[C96]

With the house debacle we have been through so many gov't agencies and none were of any help, settling liens and lawsuits exhausted us and we are moving forward and not dwelling on the past.

What are the potential dangers of NM versus UF cable?

Type Nm or NM-B as it is labeled today is intended for dry locations.

Type UF or UF-B is indented for wet locations.

Your installation would be considered a wet location therefore type UF cable to be code compliant.

Funny thing is, if I’m not mistaken both cables Nm and UF incorporate the same actual conductors within. Although they may not always have identifying markings on them when you strip the sheathing back, the conductors must still meet the minimum requirements for the cable assembly. Traditionally of years past, this would have been type TW conductors for both the NM and UF. Today I believe they incorporate type THWN or THWN-2. Now, if these wires were pulled in the conduit as individual conductors, they would be fine and code compliant. Unfortunately, your electrician used NM cable and even though the individual conductors themselves may be rated for wet locations you must adhere to what the actual cable assembly as a whole is rated for and not what the individual conductor itself is rated for.

The physical difference I see between the two is the covering of multiconductor UF cable is molded plastic that encapsulates the insulated conductors giving it a higher degree of physical and moister protection enabling it to be directly buried into the earth without a conduit protecting it, whereas the NM is a simple sheath surrounding the conductors.

If I were in your shoes, I would opt for using it the way it is.

You must make your own choice.

Good Luck

 

[abnorm]

It's the paper filler in the sheath of the NM that is the wet-location problem

 

[Mustang51js]

You will prob never get water in there,if inspector didn't say anything then I wouldn't worry about it. Around here in the flood zones you aren't required to replace the romex, just bx wire that gets wet. Only time you would have an issue is if there's a knick in the insulation on the wires inside the outer casing, that would corrode the copper over time.

 

[MDSPHOTO]

Type Nm or NM-B as it is labeled today is intended for dry locations.

Type UF or UF-B is indented for wet locations.

Your installation would be considered a wet location therefore type UF cable to be code compliant.

Funny thing is, if I’m not mistaken both cables Nm and UF incorporate the same actual conductors within. Although they may not always have identifying markings on them when you strip the sheathing back, the conductors must still meet the minimum requirements for the cable assembly. Traditionally of years past, this would have been type TW conductors for both the NM and UF. Today I believe they incorporate type THWN or THWN-2. Now, if these wires were pulled in the conduit as individual conductors, they would be fine and code compliant. Unfortunately, your electrician used NM cable and even though the individual conductors themselves may be rated for wet locations you must adhere to what the actual cable assembly as a whole is rated for and not what the individual conductor itself is rated for.

The physical difference I see between the two is the covering of multiconductor UF cable is molded plastic that encapsulates the insulated conductors giving it a higher degree of physical and moister protection enabling it to be directly buried into the earth without a conduit protecting it, whereas the NM is a simple sheath surrounding the conductors.

If I were in your shoes, I would opt for using it the way it is.

You must make your own choice.

Good Luck

Thanks for the info, that's why I come here so much knowledge and members always willing to help idiots like me! The shop had to order two parts to complete the job so I will pick them up next Sat and hopefully install later that day.

 

[MDSPHOTO]

Okay got it all hooked up and works fine, but question regarding ground wire. The outlet itself obviously has a ground screw, but the flange that the outlet sits in also had a ground screw. I hooked the ground to the outlet, but should I run a jumper wire from the ground on the outlet to the flange?

 

[pattenp]

Yes.

Edit. wirenut 2 pigtail ends on the ground wire so you have one to the outlet and one to the flange. Don't put 2 wires ends under the outlet ground screw.

 

[MDSPHOTO]

Yes.

Edit. wirenut 2 pigtail ends on the ground wire so you have one to the outlet and one to the flange. Don't put 2 wires ends under the outlet ground screw.

Got it. Thanks for the help.

 

[C96]

Yes, do as pattenp suggests. The ground screw on the flange most likely aids in grounding the finished cover plate if brass, stainless or whatever metal.

Glad to here the mystery is finally completed. Hope all the other electrical is serving you well.