Floor pans?

[nbpt100]

I took my old station wagon to an old timer body shop guy to weld in a new floor oan in my Mercury station wagon.

He looked at it and he said he will glue them in.

I questioned this. He said the adhesive he uses is strong as heck and should not be an issue. He said he has done many and uses it on rocker panels he repairs.

I decided to pass. I was thinking if that is all there is to it I can do it myself and save several hundred dollars. I will order a piece of galvanized sheet metal and go from there.

He would not tell me the adhesive but I figure I could do a combination of nuts/bolts and some kind of adhesive/sealant to mainly make sure water stays out.

1. What adhesive is he talking about (if anyone knows)?
2. What would folks recommend I use for a sealant/adhessive?
3. It is starting to get cold. What Can I use it in 40 or 30 degree weather?

Thanks for sharing in advance.

 

[ratdoggy]

First do they make floor pans for that car?
Second I'd buy a HF welder and weld regular steel in or use a bunch of pop rivets

 

[p_mori7]

1. What adhesive is he talking about (if anyone knows)?
2. What would folks recommend I use for a sealant/adhessive?
3. It is starting to get cold. What Can I use it in 40 or 30 degree weather?

1- Probably 3M Body Panel Adhesive or similar.
2- Same.
3- Probably not.

 

[Stuart in MN]

http://www.lord.com/products-and-solutions/brands/fusor---aftermarket-repair-adhesives

 

[lakeroadster]

Planning on selling the car? You are apprehensive about glued in floor plans, the next guy will be to. I know I would be.

What Make and Model wagon is it?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

In a bunch of different scenarios, adhesives are stronger than the materials they adhere. The Lotus Elise is an example of a modern car who's structure is primarily glued together, not welded or riveted.

I wouldn't be apprehensive of it at all.

 

[RPH]

Don't buy any car built in the last 30 years. Bonding is the choice for closure panels and they all do it. Cars are glued together more and more each year. Bonding is stronger than welding.

 

[nbpt100]

In a bunch of different scenarios, adhesives are stronger than the materials they adhere. The Lotus Elise is an example of a modern car who's structure is primarily glued together, not welded or riveted.

I wouldn't be apprehensive of it at all.

That is interesting but what adhesive do they use and under what conditions must it be applied? It may need a controlled temp and RH. I am doing this in my drive way. I need to be practical. I am not saying that is'nt but you lack a lot of details in your post to give me any confidence at this time.

The info in the link to Fusor products looks interesting. Apparently you need to be bare metal to bare metal. I assume I can't use Galvanized or plated sheet steel?

I have no problem drilling some holes and bolting together. I need to seal it so water does not leak in. If I have an adhesive/sealant it will add to the integrity. That is my thinking.

it is a mercury sable. 3rd Generation.

 

[ez-duzit]

How about Pop-Rivets and that adhesive?

Use un-plated steel, same as original.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

When we took the Lord Fusor class in the mid 90's.

They told us we could Panel Bond any non-structural automotive parts.

But, 20 years have passed...............................

Capt. Chrysler

PS: Now I also have glue holding the bolts in for my hoist, so.....................

 

[RPH]

Galvineel is a common coating used in today's stampings. Been around quite awhile. The thinking around the time bonding started back pre 1987 as a structural component was they put an awful lot of effort to rust protect the panels but to join they burn the coatings off when welding. Think about it, when was the last time you saw a vehicle with visible spot welds on the class A surface? also the spot weld was a eyesore for finish. Another problem that entered was the cut edge of the stamping had no coating. Rust would start there and just undermine the coatings. By going to full perimeter bonding ( this was a one part epoxy type adhesive) the cut edge of the inner is sealed in the glue, more physical strength in the joint due to the surface area of the bond versus spot welds. Early adhesives were typically heated by induction to temperature of 450*f and held at that temperature for 4-5 seconds. Strength attained would be in the range of 500 psi on shear. The equipment brought the panel to the target tempeture in 1 second. Steel was great and just loves a magnetic field!
2 part adhesives showed up in the nineties, Lord was one of the first but 3M was too, plus others. Most 2 parts cure anaerobically, in the absence of air. Colder temperature can slow the cure, but induction is used yet to heat the parts. Aluminum is done the same way, by heating two part adhesives the handing strength of the assemble is quick and strong. 5 minutes after cooling down from heating the strength is over 500 psi and climbing. Lab samples that we run on adhesives and metals proves out that the adhesive is typically stronger than the metal itself. Don't hesitate to glue the panels, the process has been throughly industrialized. Get the right adhesive, clean up the panels and glue. They don't dip the stampings in cleaner, their oily and greasy. The adhesive is designed to work through it. Glue it up and depending on the product it could be ready in an hour. Take you longer to put the other stuff back in. Just my experience in the field for 26 years, it works.

 

[Ben Jamin]

I was shocked & amazed with 3 m's panel bond. It set up great and sanded out even better for my cab corner.

 

[kbs2244]

They glue F-16's together

 

[lakeroadster]

I took my old station wagon to an old timer body shop guy to weld in a new floor pan in my Mercury station wagon.........

... it is a mercury sable. 3rd Generation.

So it's a 1992–1995 wagon? Yeah, glue sounds great....

When you said "old" I thought you were talking about a something like this... http://americancars-for-sale.com/1564/1957-mercury-commuter-station-wagon

 

[nbpt100]

They don't dip the stampings in cleaner, their oily and greasy. The adhesive is designed to work through it. Glue it up and depending on the product it could be ready in an hour. Take you longer to put the other stuff back in. Just my experience in the field for 26 years, it works.

If I understand you correctly I don't have to degrease anything. I believe I would need to strip the existing paint.

 

[nbpt100]

lake roadster, that is a cool looking car. I am jealous!

 

[HMCFab9]

3M panel bonding adhesive is what is used.

Do NOT do it outside in 30-40 degree weather. It would be a waste of time.
Also, do Not do it on galvanized sheetmetal. That's not what it was intended for.

The metal needs to be clean, bare steel (depending on the product used) & under controlled conditions (not in your driveway in freezing weather)

It's not cheap ($50 or so / tube). If you do it right, it's great stuff, but I wouldn't put a floorpan in with it.

You can weld a floorpan in no-matter what the weather is, so that might be your best option if you have no heat.

 

[RPH]

Clean things up the best you can. The have draw compound all over panels from the forming process. The envoirment ones the need to be sterile. If paint is there then the adhesive is sticking to the paint. And that will be your foundation for the joint. How well is the paint stuck? Eastwood has a bonding kit that people have found to be good. Have not used it myself. I can get samples from work when I need it. There will always be people who don't trust adhesives but it is the way of production. Just don't make the adhesive layer to thick as that makes a weak joint. They use glass beads in production to maintain the bond line gap. Too little is just as bad. Do your research and get it done.

 

[zebrabeefj40]

3M has videos on YouTube about how to use their adhesives. Their website has details about each product and how it needs to be used as well.

Nick

 

[ilovevocs]

If you buy the 3m gun your not going to save yourself much. Last time I bought one I think it was pushing $500.00. I just remember thinking it was ALLOT more money than my duramix back in the day.


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[nbpt100]

For all practical purposes it sounds like using an adhesive it out for me.

Thanks to all. I did get a good education on adhesives for automotive applications.

 

[toplessHO]

If you buy the 3m gun your not going to save yourself much. Last time I bought one I think it was pushing $500.00. I just remember thinking it was ALLOT more money than my duramix back in the day.


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I made my own 3M gun
large caulk gun and 3/4 PVC as plungers
works great
I also bought a sausage gun but have never used it

 

[nbpt100]

I made my own 3M gun
large caulk gun and 3/4 PVC as plungers
works great
I also bought a sausage gun but have never used it

Good ideas!

 

[pamike]

I did a lap joint one time on a piece of sheetmetal with adhesive, and when I accidently dropped the part a week later the adhesive cracked out. I don't know what I did wrong, but I wasn't impressed...

 

[zebrabeefj40]

If you buy the 3m gun your not going to save yourself much. Last time I bought one I think it was pushing $500.00. I just remember thinking it was ALLOT more money than my duramix back in the day.


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I bought the 200 mL 3M gun from Summit Racing for $60...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tes-08571/overview/

Nick

 

[macgyver37]

88-98 chevy pickups have the door hinges glued on, I had a 88 with 280k on it and I wish they were bolted on so I could fix the pivot properly, but even after over 20 yrs the glue never failed and that door is not light and it had many thousands of open close cycles too.

Just like any process, if used properly and prepped properly the results will be good.

If you try to weld in a galvanized sheet onto rusty junk, it won't hold either. If you clean up the parent metal and use clean non plated metal to weld in etc, it will then be up to the welders skill as to whether it will be a good joint.