flooring advice

[benchracer1]

I have a 1200 square foot shop. The concrete floor is 10 years old and gets rough use. There are several old oil stains. I am tentatively planning on using versatile building products 5108 polyaspartic over 4100 primer with rhino tooth nonskid. I want a solid color (light grey) for ease of finding dropped small parts. The floor will be decreased and ground. Has anybody used there products and this one in particular? Is this 'new' polyaspartic as good as an old fashioned epoxy floor? Can't stand looking at this unsightly concrete much longer...Steve. Btw no moisture issues

 

[Cee1281]

I've been using VBP for years and love there products, you could prime with there 4195 in whisperer grey, then you could finish with the 5108 or 5197,you would have to add a pigment pack to tint the polyasprtic. I personally like the 5197 as is its 97% solid as appose to 72% solid,gives a little more build.If grinding doesn't take care of the oil spots and there is a good amount of them then you could prime with 4001 instead of 4195.,as it's good for oil stained concrete.Talk to jimmy@ VBP,he could answer any questions for you.Good luck

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

OP:
Polyaspartic is used two ways, primarily.
Clear topcoat to an epoxy system.
(3) coat system on a full chip.

PAP likes to be thin, rolls out like urethane. You can use it if you are prepared for the quick cure. Have to move with purpose.

Frankly, for a DIY garage I would stick with urethane over epoxy. The final result is similar and the PAP is $$.

 

[benchracer1]

I spoke To jimmy earlier in the week. Sounds pretty knowledgeable for sure. I was trying to get some input from real world guys. I am a bit worried about the diy factor. Sounds like this product is somewhat user friendly. My shop is 1200 sf. I plan on either doing it in either 2 days (600 sf each day) or 3 days(400 sf each day). I can divide it up at the sawcuts. I still haven't ruled out the epoxy urethane route. I am a bit concerned about uv fade. My main concern is durability. I want it to look somewhat good in 10 years. I should have done this 10 years ago but overanalyzed it and never got it done.

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

benchracer1 - I also have been considering VBP. You might consider their 4100 primer in combination with their 4800 Industrial 100% Solids epoxy, and then a nice urethane coat such as their 5350. According to VBP's website, the 4100 sticks to oil stained concrete. The concrete still needs to be degreased and profiled. The 4800 is going to give you some build (thickness) which is what prevents the wearing of the floor through to the concrete. The more material you have the longer it will hold up before wearing through. And the urethane will add uv protection and extra durability and maybe some shine too.

 

[benchracer1]

I opted for the 4195 primer and the 4800 epoxy finally a coat of 5350 clear urethane for uv protection. I am beginning prepping the floor. What a pita. 10 years of **** and stains. I have been scrubbing the stains using tsp and hot water. I threw some kitty litter on it overnight and it seems to be working. I say that because the oil seems to be being drawn out but it keeps on beading water after 2 or three 3 applications. Frustrating. I have a nice floor scrubber and I am going to use a stripping pad and some of their vmc 100 cleaner. Finally I am going to grind the concrete. I know that 90% of the job is prep but the old oil stains concern me. I really don't want this stuff lifting. Anybody got any tricks for the initial cleaning or should I just keep doin what I'm doin. How much of the oil comes out with grinding?.....Steve

 

[Shea]

If they are bad oil stains, clean them best you can before grinding. The grinding does a good job on most oil stains but sometimes needs to be hit will a degreaser again after grinding. Any remaining oil tends to clean up better after grinding because of the open pores in the concrete.

 

[benchracer1]

I always tried to clean them up asap but a few sat for a day or two, like under a floor jack. I don't think they are that bad. The water beading concerns me....

 

[kwfloors]

You can get solid gray flakes too. For removing sealers and oils I use citrus solve. It works really well.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

If they are bad oil stains, clean them best you can before grinding. The grinding does a good job on most oil stains but sometimes needs to be hit will a degreaser again after grinding. Any remaining oil tends to clean up better after grinding because of the open pores in the concrete.

If your oil stains are bordering on oil contaminated concrete the epoxy will not stick.
Consider an oil-stop primer if that is the case.


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[benchracer1]

Tried using acetone and kitty litter. I made a slurry and covered it with plastic. After setting overnight I removed the plastic. Seemed to work extremely well. I took a photo of 2 large stains. I will post an after shot. These are 2 of the biggest, darkest stains in the shop. I am going to use this method on the older larger stains. I am going to grind the remainder and then recheck it. I also scrubbed the floor with v100 cleaner and an orbital floor machine....steve

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

I opted for the 4195 primer and the 4800 epoxy finally a coat of 5350 clear urethane for uv protection.

Steve - curious, what helped you decide to go with the 4195 primer over the 4100 primer?

 

[benchracer1]

I was told by them that the 4100 was more for moisture issues. They said that they would use 4195 for my situation

 

[benchracer1]

I pulled the plastic and the middle of the stain was gone .it did however make the perimeter larger and darker. Will try to get some pics later. I threw some v100 on and am covering it in plastic for a few hours at which time I will apply kitty litter and see what happens.

 

[benchracer1]

Having alot of cool equipment in the shop is great, till ya gotta move it. Lol still workin on stain removal

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Steve - very cool to read about your progress with this project.


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[benchracer1]

Gonna be out of town for 4 days. We had Santa Ana winds today so I got nothing done. Hopefully when I get back I can finish degreasing and get the grinding done . At that point I'm sure I'll be asking questions before I apply the finish......steve

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Gonna be out of town for 4 days. We had Santa Ana winds today so I got nothing done. Hopefully when I get back I can finish degreasing and get the grinding done . At that point I'm sure I'll be asking questions before I apply the finish......steve

Sweet! Looking forward to more installments of your project.

 

[benchracer1]

Here is my first of many questions I'm sure. I am using a solid color with no chips. In the topcoat of urethane I am going to put rhino tooth for anti slip. Anybody have any advice on anti slip in urethane topcoat? I really don't want to take a concrete sample with my face

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

3-4 oz. per gal is typical. Mix into it and then roller apply.
Check with the mfg recommendations as a precaution.

 

[benchracer1]

Does this type of product generally provide good slip protection of used as directed?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Yes, generally it does. It adds enough to help with slipping but is still cleanable and glossy.

 

[benchracer1]

Perfect. Floor doesn't get wet often but I'm relatively certain that I would find that spot the hard way. lol

 

[benchracer1]

I also have four holes 5/8 diameter (old anchor bolts) that need filled. What would Bea good patch that the epoxy will adhere to?

 

[benchracer1]

A bit more confused. I am going to rent a tool from home depot tomorrow just not sure which one. I was set on the diamatool prep wheel but the guy at home depot said I should use an actual grinder which they also rent. He said all the Diamabrush will do is rough up the concrete with no removal. He said the grinder will remove up to 1/32 of an inch. The diamabrush seems a bit more forgiving. I still am thinking diamabrush but I thought I would get your guys opinion. I am a bit nervous of damaging the concrete with an aggressive grinder

 

[benchracer1]

Went to home depot and opted for the diamabrush. I asked the guy at the counter if he preferred the prep or the removal tool. He gave me both and told me to see which works best. I found the removal tool to be extremely aggressive, to the point of being hard to handle. I used the prep tool for most of the job and used the removal tool where I had some paint spills and such. I am very glad I read on these forums where a guy posted about the tool knocking him on his *** the first time he used it. After reading that I prepared myself and was ready for it and it still gave me a bit of a battle until I got used to it. Came out pretty well. Going to wake up in the morning and check for any spots I missed before I return the unit. Freaking wrists and back have had it...steve

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Steve - great to hear that your project is underway. Be sure to take pictures to share in the forum.


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[benwah]

Hi benchracer1, new guy to the forum here, not new to concrete coatings though!

Glad to see you are going with the epoxy/urethane system over polyaspartic system. I think it will be much easier to apply and last longer. I am not familiar with the manufacturer you are using but would like to offer a few pointers if you are not underway yet!

Grinding that floor is a surefire way to guarantee success in a floor coating, prep is key as you know. If you still cannot get rid of those oil spots a Muriatic (Hydrochloric) acid bath + pressure wash may be necessary. Be sure to sprinkle some mineral water over any areas that you're unsure of, if it absorbs GREAT! If it does not, further preparation is required.

I, personally, am a fan of randomly broadcasting my slip resistance sand into my first epoxy coat while it is still wet. Then rolling back over that with my second epoxy coat after it cures and finishing off with a clear or opaque CRU!

If you do decide to add the 2-4 oz per gallon of sand to your final clear coat there is nothing wrong with that either. Be sure to periodically agitate the material if applied out of a bucket so the sand remains suspended. A pan or tray is the recommended method though. Ribboning the liquids and then spreading the material with a flat squeegee is not recommended since the beads may lay out unevenly, resulting in a patchy appearance.

 

[benchracer1]

Most if not all of the oil stains are gone. I bought a 4 1/2 diamabrush to go around the edges and hit a few spots I missed. I am going to go over it with a fine tooth comb. I notice some darker areas on the concrete but they are from aging and not oil stains. I think the epoxy was probably a good choice

 

[benwah]

Sounds like you have it figured out! Mind that water test though, if the concrete doesn't absorb water, it most definitely will not absorb anything else. I agree

 

[benchracer1]

Had 2 spots that were marginal for the water test. Using the Portland cement method on those spots. I went ahead and put my 4195 primer on the other half of the shop and it went great. Followed up today with the 4800 epoxy. Most of it went great. The last section however ended up with some debris and some of the epoxy was getting to thick to roll and ended up with some areas that were a bit more thick. I am just going to let it cure and reprofile that area and recoat it next week. Live and learn. I am going to put the urethane over the good area and move on. All in all I guess I could just let it go and live with it but I don't want to look at it for the rest of my years

 

[benchracer1]

Got down to the last 200 sf of 1200 and the last roller I used shed badly. I was going to let it dry overnight and then put my urethane topcoat on. anybody got any tricks for removing the fibers? Any suggestions would be appreciated. I thought maybe I should grind and redo that area

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Try light sanding or screen.

Stay away from using "sand" as your non-skid.

It will hurt anything dragged over it and is not easy to clean. Choose a rounded aggregate like our soft-skid or similar product.


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[benchracer1]

Thanx for the reply. I did in fact screen it and it took care of the problem. I used a product called rhino tooth. I don't think it has sharp edges like sand, at least I hope not. While the job is not perfect for a diy job I give it a 7.5 or 8. I thank the guys at versatile building products. They offered great technical support. The product seems good quality. I don't see any adhesion issues ,yet. What a pain in the *** job. I am glad the major portion of work is done. I'll try and post some pix next week Thanx for all your guys help......steve

 

[benchracer1]

Had some urethane left over. I have one area where the nonslip was not dispersed real even. Can i screen the area and reapply the urethane? I don't want to open a can of worms. I can see it now, the area that a small void if antislipis where ill but my *** lol. Is urethane receptive to having additional urethane applied....steve

 

[benchracer1]

2 months have passed since I applied the epoxy. Showing no signs of problems. I am very happy with vbp products. I have a few areas where the application could have been a little better but oh well.....Steve

 

[benchracer1]

I do have one small problem I would like to eventually correct. During the original application I ruined a gallon kit and had to order one extra. The additional gallon is just enough darker to catch my eye. I do have a urethane clear topcoat. I am thinking of putting a pigmented urethane over the whole floor just for uniform color. I won't be doing it for a while but would like to get some input. Sounds like you can just degloss and reapply. This would give me the opportunity to fix a couple of other small flaws.....Steve

 

[benchracer1]

I talked to the manufacturer and he recommended screening and followed with a coat of pigmented polyaspartic. Anybody got any input?....steve

 

[Cee1281]

Sounds right, just sand with a 80-100 grit screen then clean with either denatured alcohol or acetone.You could then add a pigment color pack to one of there polyaspartic clear coats.This will give you your uniform color your looking and will give you great uv stability.The 4800 can Amber over time.Just work fast with material as it sets up fast,don't let it sit in bucket.You could also use one of there urethanes like 5340/5325/5350 and pigment those also.There cheaper than your PAP's.

 

[benchracer1]

I asked him about the urethane with color packets and he said that urethane can tend to fisheye with the color packet. I am going to give it a while, maybe after the holidays before I do it. I want to make sure no other issues arise like lifting. Has anybody had any application or adhesion issues with putting polyaspartic over urethane? I don't think it will be near the work that the original job was. I emptied out the complete shop, ground the concrete, worked diligently on the oil stains then primed, epoxied and urethaned. to bad that the 1 additional gallon was enough different to stand out. I consider this to be a minor problem when I read some of the horror stories on here. I can easily do the 1200sf shop 200sf at a time and just move the equipment to the side