florescent color differences

[pablo94sc]

My buddy gave me some old tubes from his work so I could compare the different colors of various bulb temps, so I thought I'd share. The phone made the colors a little bluer than what my eye naturally sees, but I think it's a pretty good reference for people on the fence as to what they want.

Left to right - 3000, 3500, and 4100. Sunlight is roughly 3800K, for reference. I'm leaning towards 3500K, but when I feel froggy I'll try mixed pairs to see if that gives me more accurate colors and post the results.

Edit - sunlight color temps people tend to prefer are around 3800K, around mid-late morning.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Just FYI, sunlight is 5780k... 3800k is just a little cooler than "warm white". Average CFL bulbs are 3500k.

Tommy

 

[cybrdyke]

Volumes have been written on the color of light. Scientists have been studying it since ancient times.
Ultimately, a person's choice of color is his personal preference. Some people like warmer tones, some like cooler tones. In practice, most people would choose a warmer tone for their living areas to create a comfortable ambiance. Most would choose a cooler tone for their garage or workspace. But either way, it's just preference.
There are a few specific reasons to use one color over another. An example would be medical work, where it's important to be able to distinguish blue veins from red arteries.
But other than those few specifics, it's just a preference.
Some folks think that there is more light being delivered from the cooler color lamps, like 5000k. Normally, this isn't true. It's just that your eyes respond better under certain conditions. And everyone's eyes arent equal, in fact, as you age, your eyes change. So your preference could change, too.
The color of delivered sunlight changes dramatically throughout the day depending on weather, time of day, latitude and longitude, and pollution. There is no one color for delivered sunlight. For consistency, some industries, like the film industry, have chosen a particular color to be the standard.
The lighting industry has no standards for the lingo they use to describe the color of a lamp. Words like soft white, cool white, daylight, natural white, etc...mean nothing. As the OP pointed out, the color temperature in kelvins is what you need to look for.
The picture is a good representation of the difference when used in a garage.
Interestingly, color rendering (CRI) is very different than color temperature (CCT). A lighting expert wouldn't necessarily look at the color of the lamps, but they would look at the items that are being lit to see how well they are rendered compared to natural light. To me, this is a more important criteria.
OP- Good pic. Thanks
CD

 

[Carlav1410]

The higher the K factor the whiter the light..

 

[pablo94sc]

Just FYI, sunlight is 5780k... 3800k is just a little cooler than "warm white". Average CFL bulbs are 3500k.

Tommy

I misspoke - many people think the most pleasing daylight color temp is around 3800K, myself included. Suitable color temp is subjective however, and age and light source plays a big part of what people find comfortable to work in. YMMV.

Note: Sunlight varies in color temps from ~1900-7000K+ depending on the position in the sky, amount of water vapor and dust in the air, etc. It's like a sweeping scale with ~2000k at sunrise/sunset, 2500K early morning/early evening, between 4000-5000K a little before and after noon, and ~5500-5700K at high noon during the summer. You'll see the 6000K+ range during overcast days.

 

[Platonic Solid]

The CCT scale, measured in degrees Kelvin, is based on the visible colors of a block of carbon at different temperatures which goes from red-yellow-white-blue as temperature increases.

Just because a lamp has a specific CCT measurement does not mean that is the measurement you will get in the installed space. CCT of reflected light changes significantly based on the color of the objects that are reflecting it:
A truly white surface will reflect all colors and not change CCT.
A truly black surface will absorb all colors and not change CCT.
Red, Yellow, Tan and Brown absorb blue and lower CCT.
Blue absorbs Red and Yellow raising CCT.

There are several studies linking overexposure to the blue wavelength light spectrum at night to negative health effects. Here’s a link to a short article on the topic.

Taking current research into consideration, it seems logical to base your CCT choice on the time of day that you spend the most time in the garage with the lights ON, thus emulating outdoor conditions:
Higher CCTs for primarily daytime use; Lower CCTs for primarily nighttime use.

I 2nd CDs sentiment that CRI (Color Rendering Index) is important. I'll add CQS (Color Quality Scale), but that data is harder to find advertised. Odds are if your lighting does a good job rendering the RED color spectrum, you have achieved >80% CRI. If REDs looks more brown you're likely <80% CRI.

 

[pablo94sc]

Good info. I spend most of my time in the garage working with the lights on at night, which makes sense why I prefer the warmer colored lamps. I want to add that the total amount of light has an effect on how lighting looks. Too little lux and warmer colors are more pleasing, greater the lux the further you can move up the temperature scale. In layman's terms, the more lights you have the more you'll probably prefer higher temp bulbs.

Fyi - forgot to mention those are all 800 series bulbs.

 

[hh76]

I had a big project a couple years ago that involved re lamping a big office complex. I was concerned with what temp lamps to install so I consulted a friend who is a lighting guy. His response was " try and match what was already there, but in the end it won't matter much. No matter what you put in, someone will complain it's too bright, someone will complain it's too dark, an someone will say they're getting headaches from the new lights. The best course is to explain to whomever is in charge that after a week or two, everyone will get used to whatever is installed."

Simple answer, don't sweat it too much. After a week or two, you won't even think about what you installed.

 

[CJ7VFR]

No matter what you put in, someone will complain it's too bright, someone will complain it's too dark, an someone will say they're getting headaches from the new lights.

OMG this made me laugh!! Why? Because its TRUE!!!!!

The office that I work in (CAD drafting room) we have 4 foot tube lights that use two tubes each. And each fixture has diffusers in them so that the light gets spread around more evenly.

About a year ago, on a friday afternoon (I was working late) the facilities guys came in and said they were going to replace some of the tubes with some new ones, due to the fact that a few had burned out and people asked if they could be replaced.

Any fixture that had a burned out tube got two new ones even if the old one still worked. And the replacement tubes were exactly the same as the old ones, as they had bought a ton of them.

So, I had to move out of my cube for a few minutes while they replaced the tubes in the fixture over my desk. After that I had great lighting again!

Anyway, there is this one woman who as far as I can tell lives to complain about everything. When she got in monday morning, and everyone was saying how nice it looked with all the lights working again, she starts to ***** that it's way too bright now, and that it's giving her headaches, and they replaced the tubes in the fixture over her desk with ones that are way brighter than before.

However, on her side of the room, they did NOT have to replace any tubes in any of the fixtures!!!!!!! The lights were exactly the same as they had been when she left on friday. They only had to replace a few on my side of the room.

When we brought that up to her, she said we were lying, and that the lights over her desk were brighter and not the same. We even showed her a copy of the work order that said only a few lights on my side of the room were replaced.

But for weeks she bitched. And just like you said, after that, she stopped because she started bitching about something else, and we never heard about the lights being too bright every again.

Jim

 

[OJ Bartley]

Red, Yellow, Tan and Brown absorb blue and lower CCT.
Blue absorbs Red and Yellow raising CCT.

There are several studies linking overexposure to the blue wavelength light spectrum at night to negative health effects. Here’s a link to a short article on the topic.

Interesting, I didn't know how certain colours reflected light differently, thanks for that and the article.

 

[orca8589]

"try and match what was already there, but in the end it won't matter much. No matter what you put in, someone will complain it's too bright, someone will complain it's too dark, an someone will say they're getting headaches from the new lights. The best course is to explain to whomever is in charge that after a week or two, everyone will get used to whatever is installed."

This^ x100.

I worked for a commercial moving outfit in the Bay Area back in the mid-90's, and we were moving the phone company from their smaller leased properties into a new HUGE complex at San Ramon, CA.

People were transferred in from older facilities all over the Bay Area, from buildings where maintenance depts. used whatever was in inventory for lighting - some of which were post-WWII era fixtures. At the new complex, all of the lighting was the same consistent "warmth", with all of it being a cooler, "bluer cast" (?) than where the employees had transferred from. The only exceptions were some of the rooms where proper color interpretation was critical. It gave the whole facility a very institutional look.

I swear, I have never heard so many people complain so long and so loudly about anything in my life. You'd think these people woke up and stuffed a hornet's nest into the skivvies each morning. They eventually got used to it; most likely because, as CJ7VFR said, they found something else to whine & b!tch about.

~Chris

 

[ripperd]

I picked up 4100K 85CRI bulbs for my garage, and I've been pretty happy with them. I have 7 dual t8 4' fixtures in 580sqft and things are lit up fairly well. I have about 3 more fixtures I want to place to round out the lighting, just been too lazy to move things around and put them up. I don't work as much in the spots where the will go.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...uorescent-Light-Bulb-10-Pack-202788/202229382

 

[pablo94sc]

Just installed new Sylvania 800 series 3500k lamps in the garage. Going to let them burn in overnight to get the phosphors and mercury to settle, but they seem equal in color to the Phillips 4100k lamps I replaced. These aren't bad and colors look okay, but they seem a tad clinical for my tastes. I may have to go down to 3000k since I typically only use the lights at night. I will probably put these in the kitchen since it could use a little brighter light than whatever was in them when I got the house.

Side note, six 4' 2-lamp T8 fixtures gives a lot of light in 580sqft (28x21ft), though two more wouldn't hurt with slightly lower lumen lamps.

 

[Platonic Solid]

What you really want is a lamp with higher R9 value (better RED rendering) and this can be difficult to find. Higher 90+ CRI lamps often have better R9 values. R9 of 60 or better is good. Finding literature to that effect is near impossible, specially for linear fluorescents.

The alternative is to paint your walls and ceiling beige or some off-white color containing yellow and red (3 months later pablo shows the world his new orange garage . . .j/k). If your space feels clinical, the wall/ceiling color may currently be a stark white tinted with blue.

My garage ceiling has the original unpainted brown papered drywall from 1965 only cause I haven't gotten around to painting it. The end result is that it doesn't matter what CCT lamps I put in there, it always looks warm.

 

[pablo94sc]

So what you're saying is paint the ceiling brown. Lol