Flourescent Lights in 2-car

[kevncar]

I've read a few threads about lighting, and I'm sorry to start another, but does anyone here have a standard 2-car garage with flourescent lights, I'm trying to stay in the 1 to 1.5 watt per sq/ft range as suggested, but was wondering if I was better off with 4-bulb or 2-bulb fixtures? Anyone got a setup that's workin good for them? I thought I'd run by the Homie Depot tomorrow and try and get atleast some of the fixtures. Wife won't let me do 'em all at once right now, I'll probably have to convince her by doing the one's over her washer and dryer first.

Thanks

 

[RonBou]

I have a 24x24 two car with 5 sets of two flourescents (4 footers). You can spread the light out more evenly with more two flourescent fixtures than with a fewer number of 4 fixtures. I use GE Daylight 40s and it works out well...but if I had to do it again I probably would have gone with 6 sets on 3 switches.

 

[BoCRon]

We just changed out our old fixtures 2 days ago. We had 2 4' fixtures with T12 bulbs in a 22' x 22' garage. We replaced them with 2 4' fixtures with T8 bulbs. We also added another 4' hanging fixture in the center that uses T8 bulbs. All I can say is OMG I can't imagine if I'd been able to fit 4 or more fixtures in there. As it is, everyone in my family shrieks everytime they go out there . We could preform open heart surgery out there!

Annette

 

[brownbagg]

my garage is 24x30. I have nine 2 bulb four footers and three 4 bulb 4 footers. I need one more for over the lathe

 

[kbs2244]

I have a 24 x 24 with a little kick out where the bench is.
I have one 2 bulb 4 footer over the bench and five 2 bulb 4 footers in the main room. I have one centered in the room, right where the garage door stops when it is up, and the other four about 2 feet in from the corners.
The orginal lighting was two 100 watt regular bulbs that worked off one switch. I just got those plastic extenders that have 2 outlest on the sides and kept the regular bulbs and pluged the 4 footers into the outlets. This let me do two things. I could move the 4 footers around untill I was happy with where ther were, and I could keep the regular 100 watt bulbs.
I wanted to keep the regular bulbs because they come on fast in the cold, and the cancel out the strobe effect florecents can give with some power tools.
This seems to be mostly a woodworking tool problem. But it can make something like a spinning table saw blade look like it is standing still. Not good if you have earmuffs on and cannot hear the saw running. I have seen it in other shops, but I don't have the problem. I think it is because I run both kind of bulbs. And they are always running together since I run them of one switch.

 

[drbill]

22x22 with 3 2 bulb 8' fixtures, one on each side and one down the middle.
2 2 bulb 4' fixtures, one each in the front in both sides.
This picture was taken in the late afternoon with no flash.

 

[snorvet]

4 - 2 bulb 8' T12 110 w High Output Cold Start in 450 sf detached garage
6 - 2 bulb 8' T12 110 w High Output Cold Start in 900 sf attached garage

They hum a bit but are very bright and inexpensive. Got them at Home Depot / Menards. I'm very happy with them so far (1 year in detached garage, 3 months in attached garage)

 

[Old Moparz]

I have a 24'x 36' garage with a 12' ceiling, & use 9 of the 2 bulb, 48" hanging shop fixtures. I have them set up in 3 rows of 3 fixtures, but with the high ceiling & unfinished walls, I could still use a brighter space. I also have another one over the work bench hanging from the overhead cabinet. I started to insulate & sheetrock part of the space, & do notice there is a big increase in the brightness due to reflective light. If you don't have sheetrock up & don't plan on doing it, you may want to at least paint the inside of the walls to brighten up the area.

You can see the brighter light in the rear, right, corner of the shop. That's where the sheetrock is in place.

 

[froggert]

just put 8 4' 2-bulb t8 fixtures on 3 switches into my 23'x20' garage. 3 over each car and 2 in the side cubby where the bikes and fridges are. the 2 on the side are on one switch, the 2 that are blocked by an open garage door on another and the remaining 4 on the last.

 

[D-Cal]

Mine is 24x30. I have two 4 bulb 4' centered on the ceiling on one switch, then four 2 bulb 4' on the walls - two on the long wall, one each on the end walls. When I'm just in there for a tool, I flip on the overheads. When I'm doing any kind of work I flip on the sidewall lights as well. Seems to be enough light for me, I don't even use a trouble light when working under a car usually, the reflection off of the floor is plenty unless I'm doing something more detailed than adjusting a parking brake cable.

 

[Piper]

From what I've seen and like the 1.5 watts per sq foot looks good. This is in a 10 foot ceiling with basically white walls and ceiling. The 4 foot, 2 bulb units are easier to install, replace and the bulbs are much easier to handle than the 8 footers. In our new garage (which only exists on paper right now!!) we have 23 x 31 which is 713 square feet multiply by 1.5 watts gives about 1069 and divided by 34 watts (per tube) gives 33. So I'm planning on installing 16, 2 bulb 4 foot units, on 2 switches. This way I can have half or all of the light on. This may be over kill but I do body work and painting which needs even shadowless light.

FWIW, my 2 cents.

Piper

 

[christian]

Could you guys post up links/pics to the fluorescent lights you've been using. Home Cheapo has barely any lights while Lowe's has a ton. At Lowe's they range from $16-$150. Using Piper's quick calculations, I would need 12-13 2 bulb, 4 ft lights for my 20X30 3 car garage.
Thanks

 

[wheelz]

In my 24 x 24 x 8' high 2 car section of my shop I have 4 2 bulb t-8 8' lights. 2 are mounted just behind the 9x7 garage doors when in the up position and the other 2 are about half way between them and the back wall. I used osb on the walls and ceiling painted white so it's very bright. I woul like to mount a couple more above the garage doors as when the doors are down and a car that is backed in with the hood up the hood creates a very shadow filled engine bay. I did install 2 4-gang outlet boxes in the ceiling that are controled by the switch and wired the lights with 4' cords so I can plug the lights in and use drywall screws to mount them anywhere (easy to move easy to and up to 4 more)

 

[toolman]

In my 24x32 garage I have 6 incandescent lights on one switch, which I turn on if I am just in there to grab something quick. If I am in there working (woodworking shop) I turn on my fluorescent fixtures, which are (4) 2-bulb four footers and (4) 2-bulb 8 footers, which light it up very nice. I still want to add 1 more 8 footer were my overhead door rolls up.


View attachment 9570

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[Old Moparz]

Could you guys post up links/pics to the fluorescent lights you've been using. Home Cheapo has barely any lights while Lowe's has a ton. At Lowe's they range from $16-$150. Using Piper's quick calculations, I would need 12-13 2 bulb, 4 ft lights for my 20X30 3 car garage.
Thanks

Mine are just the cheap, 48" twin bulb, hanging shop lights that cost about $7.99 on sale. The bulbs are usually $1 to $2 each & last a few years for me. The lights come with 2 pieces of 12" chain, "S" hooks, & a 5 or 6 foot electric cord. There's no pull chain or switch, so they are only plugged into outlets in the ceiling controlled by 3 wall switches. Some I got at Home Depot, but some I added later on the second floor were from Lowes.

Here's a link to the same brand I have, but at another store:
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/13-38-shop-lights/lights-of-america-shop-light-463497.aspx

 

[D-Cal]

Mine are standard Home Despot units.

I should add my walls and ceiling are insulated and finished drywall, painted white. Floor is bare concrete. Ceilings are 9'.

 

[froggert]

mine are from lowes. hard-wired and supposedly good to 0 degrees. something like $25 each. i'm using 5000k daylight bulbs but they look a bit blue still.

 

[BetterDays]

My garage is 20X20.

I have 10 double bulb 4' HD specials. However, due to the cold weather, I will slowly upgrade to the workshop style due to the cold weather design. I have been using the 40w bulbs, but recently switched one set to the "daylight deluxe" 32 watt style. I like this light a lot more, but it is more expensive.

 

[rocco]

This is kind of a funny read for me. my job is Commercial and industrial Lighting sales and specifications. I do Layouts and work with lighting all day.

i won't bore everyone with all the technical end of things but here are a few things to consider when lighting a garage:

1. Do not from this point on use T12 product as is it discontinued commercially and will be for resi in 2010. Lamp life in a T8 fixture is much higher as well.

2. Do not use more then a 4100K color temp lamp in your fluorescent fixture as it will distort colors. Even if it "seems" brighter.

3. Let take a 2 car 20x22 garage for example, for optimal lighting you will require 8 8ft fixtures (4 32W T8lamps each). the end result should be 3 rows of 16ft running from garage door to the back (one row in the middle, and the two others on their respective sides mounted 1-2 ft from the wall) and the two leftover fixtures should be mounted along the backwall about 1ft from the wall to be used as bench lighting and aid in underhood lumination when working on a car. i'd suggest having the 3 rows on a different switch then the rear row on its own.
(i make this at home on Paint, dimensions are off, but you get the idea)

4.if ceiling is unfinished, help yourself by using a fixture with a reflector, I.E. an industrial strip.
Pics of said fixture:

5. Regular cleaning can increase light output 20%; therefore, keep lighting equipment clean and in good operating condition.

6. If energy costs are worrying you, you can always use a 25,28 or 30 watt energy saver lamp from GE, sylvania or Philips.

7. T8 will start up and run in -18 weather, it simply takes a few minutes more then the T12 to reach full lumen output.


Also, if anybody would like a lighting layout (free for you guys) feel free to ask me. The better dimensions you give me and the more objects that you include (tool boxes, cars, benches, etc..) the better the design will be.
Every item placed in a space will affect how the lighting in the space performs.

 

[EZ SPEED]

I have 8 of the 8' two bulb fixtures in my 24x36 with 10 foot ceiling shop and it lights it up very well.
The bulbs last for an average of 4 years before I started to replace some of them.

 

[Cuprousworks]

Since I needed 12 4' lights for my shop I went cheap. HD has a house brand of light fixtures -- Commercial Electric-- which is cheap made-in China stuff. They are T-8's, which was important to me, came fully assembled with chain, switch, and cords. Our store had painted and stainless steel versions, I got the stainless which has the hassle of removing the plastic film, but which is a nice bright look. I'm pretty sure they were less than $20 each.

Biggest disadvantage to the more expense fixtures is that the bulb ends do not have the 'locking feature', which makes me nervous installing and seems to take a couple of extra seconds to get the bulbs oriented right.

Overall, decent fixtures for the money.

Mike

 

[rocco]

here is my garage as is right now with the 3 cars in it and my lightintg layout:

 

[froggert]

what do all the little numbers mean?

 

[rocco]

what do all the little numbers mean?

they are light measurement units.

the unit is Footcandles (standard-Lux is metric)

your average office is lit to 35-40 footcandles.
so your garage should be lit at around 50-70.

 

[rocco]

Taken from Wikipedia:

Foot-candle
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

General Electric's "foot candle" advertising novelty, see belowA foot-candle (sometimes footcandle; abbreviated fc, lm/ft², or sometimes ft-c) is a non-SI unit of illuminance or light intensity widely used in photography, film, television, and the lighting industry.

The unit is defined as the amount of illumination the inside surface an imaginary 1-foot radius sphere would be receiving if there were a uniform point source of one candela in the exact center of the sphere. Alternatively, it can be defined as the illuminance on a 1-square foot surface of which there is a uniformly distributed flux of one lumen. This can be thought of as the amount of light that actually falls on a given surface. The foot-candle is equal to one lumen per square foot.

The SI derived unit of illuminance is the lux. One footcandle is equal to 10.76 lux, although in the lighting industry, typically this is approximated as 1 footcandle being equal to 10 lux.

In the lighting industry, footcandles are a common unit of measurement used to calculate adequate lighting levels of workspaces in buildings or outdoor spaces.

In the motion picture cinematography field, incident light meters are used to measure the number of footcandles present, which are used to calculate the intensity of motion picture lights, allowing cinematographers to set up proper lighting-contrast ratios when filming.

Since light intensity is the primary factor in the photosynthesis of plants, horticulturalists often measure and discuss optimum intensity for various plants in foot-candles. Full, unobstructed sunlight has an intensity of approximately 10,000 fc. An overcast day will produce an intensity of around 1,000 fc. The intensity of light near a window can range from 100 to 5,000 fc, depending on the orientation of the window, time of year and latitude.

Foot-candles can be easily measured and calculated with the use of a (manual) camera equipped with a built-in light meter. With the film speed set to ASA 25 and the shutter speed set to 1/60th of a second, focus on a sheet of white paper placed in the area where intensity is to be measured. Adjust the f-stop for proper exposure. Each f-stop has an approximate corresponding foot-candle reading (see the table below).


[edit] Equivalences
Other measures of illuminance are the lux and EV (exposure value)

L [lx] = 2.5 x 2EV
1 foot-candle = about 10.764 lux;
EV 1 roughly equals to 0.46 foot candle or 5 lux.

 

[JohnHenrys48]

This is what I have in a 20X24 garage. There are 6 double tube 8 foot t-12's that are independently switched. The middle one towards the front is switched by the door. The remaining 5 and the two 4 foot double tube t-8's over the work bench are switched by the sub-panel. Each of the fixtures can be independently switched via a pull chain, so I can selectively light the garage depending on the needs. I went with the t-12's on the ceiling for the cost factor. I had picked out the t-8's but my parents wanted to spring for them as a Christmas gift and I couldn't stick them with the additional cost. I'm pretty happy with them, two of them buzz a bit on power up but quite down after a few minutes. They are running 2, 75 watt daylights each which provides more than enough light. The t-8's over the work bench are great.

 

[X-ray]

Being a lurker of the Garage Journal, I just wanted to comment that some of the best and most quantity of 'lighting' threads are found here.

FWIW, I have been relamping my shop with new fluorescent fixtures. Tried two 4 bulb 4 foot wraparound t-8 fixtures from Home Depot using Phillips 'natural sunshine' bulbs. I like the quality of light improvement, but the ballasts in the Lithonia fixtures is not silent- even though I had read electronic ones are/were.. The shop is unheated and lately in the 30's so that may be partly to blame.
These fixtures with the expensive (relatively) bulbs were $80 something each out the door. They are ok, but will not buy more of them.

I am switching over the general lighting to four foot t-5ho Raptor 4's. Three are up and the amount of light from 5.5 total amps is outstanding. I only have a 12' foot ceiling and they ended up lense to floor at 11' 3" height.
They are truly silent, and have simliar quality of light as the sunshine t-8 bulbs .

T-8's or t-5's make good light , I did stick in some t-12 nat sunshine bulbs, and they look good as well, just lower lumen output.

I have noticed and appreciated the pictures of everyones garage and will add some of my own once the place is in a presentable condition.

 

[rocco]

. I like the quality of light improvement, but the ballasts in the Lithonia fixtures is not silent- even though I had read electronic ones are/were..

The reason they are noisy is that they are a Residential grade ballast. ( that is all that home depot has access to. i have Commercial Grade T8 electronic fixtures in my garage with >10% thd ballasts and there isnt a noise to be heard.

 

[Goliath]

3. Let take a 2 car 20x22 garage for example, for optimal lighting you will require 8 8ft fixtures (4 32W T8lamps each). the end result should be 3 rows of 16ft running from garage door to the back (one row in the middle, and the two others on their respective sides mounted 1-2 ft from the wall) and the two leftover fixtures should be mounted along the backwall about 1ft from the wall to be used as bench lighting and aid in underhood lumination when working on a car. i'd suggest having the 3 rows on a different switch then the rear row on its own.
(i make this at home on Paint, dimensions are off, but you get the idea)

Rocco-

How would you set this up if the garage was 24x24 with an 8 foot ceiling and a single 16x7 garage door? Keep in mind in the center there must be room for installation of the garage door opener.

Your post has provided me with the layout I've been contemplating. I am in the middle of the construction of my house and the electrician will be out in about 2-3 weeks at which time I'll have to do a walk-through with him for outlet/fixture placement.

Thanks!

 

[X-ray]

The reason they are noisy is that they are a Residential grade ballast. ( that is all that home depot has access to. i have Commercial Grade T8 electronic fixtures in my garage with >10% thd ballasts and there isnt a noise to be heard.

I will remember that when looking at task lighting solutions.

The T5ho's however are exceeding my expectations, so not sure how much task lighting will be required.

 

[rocco]

Rocco-

How would you set this up if the garage was 24x24 with an 8 foot ceiling and a single 16x7 garage door? Keep in mind in the center there must be room for installation of the garage door opener.

Your post has provided me with the layout I've been contemplating. I am in the middle of the construction of my house and the electrician will be out in about 2-3 weeks at which time I'll have to do a walk-through with him for outlet/fixture placement.

Thanks!

I would still have two 16ft runs on each side and instead of a 16ft run in the middle,. i would use an 8ft fron the garage door opener on.there will be some loss of light, but you can't have a light where your door will be hitting into it.

 

[Special55]

This is kind of a funny read for me. my job is Commercial and industrial Lighting sales and specifications. I do Layouts and work with lighting all day.

i won't bore everyone with all the technical end of things but here are a few things to consider when lighting a garage:

1. Do not from this point on use T12 product as is it discontinued commercially and will be for resi in 2010. Lamp life in a T8 fixture is much higher as well.

2. Do not use more then a 4100K color temp lamp in your fluorescent fixture as it will distort colors. Even if it "seems" brighter.

3. Let take a 2 car 20x22 garage for example, for optimal lighting you will require 8 8ft fixtures (4 32W T8lamps each). the end result should be 3 rows of 16ft running from garage door to the back (one row in the middle, and the two others on their respective sides mounted 1-2 ft from the wall) and the two leftover fixtures should be mounted along the backwall about 1ft from the wall to be used as bench lighting and aid in underhood lumination when working on a car. i'd suggest having the 3 rows on a different switch then the rear row on its own.
(i make this at home on Paint, dimensions are off, but you get the idea)

4.if ceiling is unfinished, help yourself by using a fixture with a reflector, I.E. an industrial strip.
Pics of said fixture:

5. Regular cleaning can increase light output 20%; therefore, keep lighting equipment clean and in good operating condition.

6. If energy costs are worrying you, you can always use a 25,28 or 30 watt energy saver lamp from GE, sylvania or Philips.

7. T8 will start up and run in -18 weather, it simply takes a few minutes more then the T12 to reach full lumen output.


Also, if anybody would like a lighting layout (free for you guys) feel free to ask me. The better dimensions you give me and the more objects that you include (tool boxes, cars, benches, etc..) the better the design will be.
Every item placed in a space will affect how the lighting in the space performs.

Rocco,

I'm not trying to start anything here I'm just wanting to figure this out as I'm getting ready to buy bulbs in the next couple of weeks.

This was taken from a post back in August and the info conflicts with yours on color temp.

"T-8s are more efficient to run and 4' bulbs are easier to bring home and store.

There are 4 things you need to look at with lighting:

Lumens, Wattage, CRI, and Color Temperature

Lumens is the actual amount of light put out by a bulb (most think it is the wattage, however, the lumens is the true mark)

Wattage is going to determine how efficient the lights are. The higher the wattage, the more you owe the electric company.

CRI (Color Reference Index) is how true the color is in the light. 100 is direct sunlight and the highest rating. If you can stay in the 90s your reds will stay red and not look orange or brown. (This is most important in the painting hobby.)

Color Temperature (the K number that Der Bugmeister mentioned) is how warm or cold the light appears to be. A rating around 5000 is the ideal place. There is a nice chart here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature
It will show when the light becomes blue or yellowed.

(By the way, most of these are more bulb related than fixture related. Just make sure you get a fixture that matches the wattage of the bulbs.)

As for how many and whether or not to get the reflectors depends on somethings you did not mention. Ceiling height, wall color, ceiling material and color. Positioning also depends on where you work and what you are doing in that space."

I will be doing body and paint work and will need color closest to natural as possible. Since you do this for a living I figured I would ask you for clarification.


Thanx in advance for the info,

Rich

 

[rocco]

Rocco,

I'm not trying to start anything here I'm just wanting to figure this out as I'm getting ready to buy bulbs in the next couple of weeks.

This was taken from a post back in August and the info conflicts with yours on color temp.

"T-8s are more efficient to run and 4' bulbs are easier to bring home and store.

There are 4 things you need to look at with lighting:

Lumens, Wattage, CRI, and Color Temperature

Lumens is the actual amount of light put out by a bulb (most think it is the wattage, however, the lumens is the true mark)

Wattage is going to determine how efficient the lights are. The higher the wattage, the more you owe the electric company.

CRI (Color Reference Index) is how true the color is in the light. 100 is direct sunlight and the highest rating. If you can stay in the 90s your reds will stay red and not look orange or brown. (This is most important in the painting hobby.)

Color Temperature (the K number that Der Bugmeister mentioned) is how warm or cold the light appears to be. A rating around 5000 is the ideal place. There is a nice chart here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature
It will show when the light becomes blue or yellowed.

(By the way, most of these are more bulb related than fixture related. Just make sure you get a fixture that matches the wattage of the bulbs.)

As for how many and whether or not to get the reflectors depends on somethings you did not mention. Ceiling height, wall color, ceiling material and color. Positioning also depends on where you work and what you are doing in that space."

I will be doing body and paint work and will need color closest to natural as possible. Since you do this for a living I figured I would ask you for clarification.


Thanx in advance for the info,

Rich

what is more important to you is the CRI and not the color temp.
5000K is closer to daylight, yes, but will also be harder to find and more costly. in your situation, i would spend the extra few dollars for the 5000k, but in normal situations, 3500k or 4100k is more then adequate.
i'm not going into hard details with any of this, simply trying to help you guys make the lighting in your space work for you at the lowest cost and the simplest setup.

Alex

 

[Special55]

Thanx Rocco.

I will probably spend the extra money and get the 5000 temp bulbs. I know your advise is greatly appreciated on this board and your offer of free lighting plans is outstanding. I haven't placed my fixtures yet so you may get a note from me in a week or 2 for some aditional advise myself.

Rich

 

[-pru-]

Re: Flourescent Lights in 3-car

Here's a photo of my 3-car 24x36 which utilizes (4) 2-bulb 8' fluorescents. Did not go with the electronic ballasts so the 60-Hz hum is audible but not unbearable.

 

[JMURiz]

White walls a light floor sure do make a difference, that's a large garage for only that number of lights, but it doesn't look dark in there for sure!

BTW nice VFR, always loved the sound of those bikes.

 

[-pru-]

White walls a light floor sure do make a difference, that's a large garage for only that number of lights, but it doesn't look dark in there for sure!

BTW nice VFR, always loved the sound of those bikes.

Nathan,

Yes, the white walls, ceiling (9'), and gray floor make a big difference. What is less obvious in the photo is the contribution of the two windows on the left. On the day I took this photo, it was might bright outside!

Thanks for the VFR comment. It's long gone ('04). Still miss it. Yes, it sounded great with the "StainTune" exhaust!

 

[scregan]

Rocco,

Great layout diagram. I am looking at lighting a 22w X 24D garage with 2 single doors. Your layout should work perfect. Can you suggest a couple of fixture & bulb combination to look at?

I think Granger had over 100 different ones.

Thanks,

Scott

 

[jay50]

Just found this thread and wondering:
1. Why are T12s are being discontinued? (I have 4 sets of two bulb 8 footers). Should I be stocking up on bulbs now?
2) What is the difference between a T8 and T12? Are T8's available as 8 foot bulbs? What is max wattage available in T8s?

Need a little education on light bulbs...LOL

 

[April]

I just use a handful of 55W CFLs - they're 5000k and 3600 lumens/bulb (about equal to a 250W incandescent). Didn't want to fiddle with the wiring in my garage, so I just replaced the incandescents that came with the garage when I bought the house.

I don't care too much about the CRI, but I really do like the 5000k color temperature. It's very clinical, and keeps me from getting tired. They cost about $15/bulb.