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Fluorescent shop lights: 8ft versus 4ft

Scott

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Dec 21, 2005
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Bothell, WA
I am beginning the remodel on my 20X20 two car garage and have started to research lighting. I was planning on installing 3 8ft (T12 1.5" diameter?) fixtures but after a trip to the store I am a bit more confused. At Lowes they also had 8ft fixtures with 4 4ft (T8?) bulbs. I heard the rumor that 8ft fixtures are going out of production, is there truth to this?

I there an definite advantage to the T12 8ft bulbs to T8 4ft bulbs? If I go with 4ft bulbs I might as well install 4ft fixtures and spread them out a bit. Should I hardwire the fixtures or just install outlets in the ceiling and hang the fixtures on chains? Any feedback is appreciated?


My plan as of now is to install 6 4ft (skinny T8 bulbs) fixtures hung from chains and plugged into outlets in the ceiling.
 
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OldCarGuy

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Best Bang for my buck. I would go with 8’ T12 fluorescent lights. The 8 footers put out more than twice as much light than a 4 foot model. While they use 60 Watts of power verses 34 watts that a 48” uses. I would imagine the same would be true for the T8's.

A thread that debates T-8 and T-12 fluorescent lighting plus More than you want to know about lighting!
 

dboat

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Dallas, Tx
I have 8' lights that are attached to the ceiling, no hanging down.. my first experience with them rather than 4 foot lights.. I think they work better.. IMHO..

Dana
 

Remi

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Vancouver, Canada
Just a week ago, I installed two 8' fixtures(with 2 8'bulbs). Got them at HD. They just delivered a updated (new balast) lithonia fixture with the reflective housing. I love it. More economical than 4' fixtures. Less wiring, shorter install time.
 

stimpy

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troy twshp IL
I have a 8 ft t-12 between 2 4 ft units ( the 4 footers are perpindicular to the 8 ) and it lights up my garage really nice with no shadows the 4's are 4 feet off the end of the 8 footer and are mounted directly to the ceiling (hardwired ) my garage is 10 wide x 24 deep .
 

CraigFL

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Panama City, FL
Even if 8ft fixtures would go "out of production", there are billions & billions of them and there would be replacement lamps for many years to come.
 

gerry

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Go with 48" tubes cuz you can find the replacement tubes anywhere and anytime and they are alot easier to store and transport without breaking
 

MarkH

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With all of the 8ft tubes used in industrial facilities I doubt we will see the end of them soon. Some place may drop them due to the clients they serve, but disappear no they will be in catalogs for some time.
 

ARAMP1

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Memphis, TN
My garage is roughly the same size as yours. I put up 7 twin 4 foot fixtures and I'm very happy with my setup. The bulbs are very inexpensive and they provide a lot of light. These pics were taken with no camera flash.
 

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MXtras

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MarkH said:
With all of the 8ft tubes used in industrial facilities I doubt we will see the end of them soon. Some place may drop them due to the clients they serve, but disappear no they will be in catalogs for some time.

I thought the same thing about R-12 15 years ago when it was still around $1/pound! (edited)

All new facilities are using 48" bulbs. Look up next time you are in a Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes, Sam's Club, etc. If the building was built within the last 5-8 years, they have 48" bulbs. And I think most industrial places use mostly metal halide bay lights....at least the last few dozen or so I have seen.

Having said all that ****, if you decide to go with the longer bulbs keep an eye on the market - you need to buy a good supply of spares a few hours before they announce that they are going to ban production. You know what that does to the price and availabiltiy.

Scott
 

saf-t scissors

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It's also worth mentioning that fluorescent tubes are considered hazardous waste. When they burn out, you can't just throw them in the trash. Due to the mercury content inside of the tube, you'll have to take them to your local landfill/county collection facility/etc on their household hazardous waste day.

Just FYI...
 

G M

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Jun 10, 2005
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Winnipeg
They make 8' T8 fixtures with 4 4' bulbs. Best of both worlds, it is actually cheaper to buy 1 8' fixture then it is to buy 2 4' fixtures, easier to wire and half as many ballasts.
 

Cebby

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G M said:
They make 8' T8 fixtures with 4 4' bulbs. Best of both worlds, it is actually cheaper to buy 1 8' fixture then it is to buy 2 4' fixtures, easier to wire and half as many ballasts.

Good tip.

Mine is about 20x20, but the walls/ceiling are dark (block and dark wood). I have (10) 2-bulb 4' fixtures plus (2) 3-bulb 4' fixtures under an overhead shelf. Pretty good when its warm out - less light when it's really cold.... :wtf:

When I redo my garage interior (gutting and painting among other things), I think I'll replace the 4' fixtures with the ones GM mentioned. Can't have too much light IMO.
 

snorvet

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G M said:
They make 8' T8 fixtures with 4 4' bulbs. Best of both worlds, it is actually cheaper to buy 1 8' fixture then it is to buy 2 4' fixtures, easier to wire and half as many ballasts.

GM - where did you find these?
 
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Scott

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Goobzilla said:
My Lowe's has the 4x48" T8 Flourescent fixtures $44.47 each

Link

I am leaning towards something like these fixtures. Any downsides versus T12s? Other than twice as many bulbs?
 

G M

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Winnipeg
I got them at Home Depot up here in Canada 8 footers are $52 each Canadian vs $35 each for the 4 footers.

They are made by Lithonia lighting. The T8's use significantly less electricity then the T12's and the T8's have bulbs half the diameter so you will gain at least an extra inch of clearance on the ceiling. I would also expect that the 8 foot fixtures would use less electricity using one ballast compared to 2 4 foot fixtures using 2 ballasts.
 

Charles (in GA)

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gerry said:
Go with 48" tubes cuz you can find the replacement tubes anywhere and anytime and they are alot easier to store and transport without breaking

This is a very good idea. The T8 lamps are the cats meow, instant starting. more light, better color, and lower energy draw. They also do not generate any noise, which the old magnetic ballast of most T12 fixtures do.

For a large shop, metal halide fixtures are the way to go, or a new fixture that uses T5 lamps that has the same light output as a 400w MH fixture. We are talking high ceilings and large building here, not your average two car garage. For the small shop the 4 ft T8 fixtures are the best.

Charles
 

snorvet

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I'm remodeling my shop and my current lighting *****. I've already ripped out the old fixtures. I drywalled the shop and have 4 places where I have stubbed the lighting wire through the drywall.

I have approx 416 sf and previous lighting thread says 2 watts per sf is excellent. So I need about 832 watts. I'd like to use my 4 lighting stubs without adding any new light fixture locations. I have 9' ceiling.

I'm looking at T5 High Output. 4 bulbs per fixture, 54 watts per bulb = 864 total watts. I've looked at these http://www.prolighting.com/4lat5flhibay.html
and others but they are considered for "high bay" uses. Do you think these will work for 9' ceilings?
 

Charles (in GA)

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snorvet said:
I'm remodeling my shop and my current lighting *****. I've already ripped out the old fixtures. I drywalled the shop and have 4 places where I have stubbed the lighting wire through the drywall.

I have approx 416 sf and previous lighting thread says 2 watts per sf is excellent. So I need about 832 watts. I'd like to use my 4 lighting stubs without adding any new light fixture locations. I have 9' ceiling.

I'm looking at T5 High Output. 4 bulbs per fixture, 54 watts per bulb = 864 total watts. I've looked at these http://www.prolighting.com/4lat5flhibay.html
and others but they are considered for "high bay" uses. Do you think these will work for 9' ceilings?

High bay lights are generally designed for 20 ft and above. They are focused more straight down with less spread.. When used down low, they could leave dark areas between the fixtures, but I suspect not with these.

Note that the fixture you are refering to is 4 bulb units, however the one in the pic is the larger 6 bulb unit. T5 bulbs are very high output, and expensive new technology, they are 5/8" diameter (thats the 5 in T5) T8 lamps are 8/8's or one inch diameter, while older common flourescents are T12 or 12/8's diameter or 1-1/4" dia.

T8 lamps are current common use, T12's are disappearing from production on new fixtures, T5's are just coming into vogue.

To be quite honest, I'd consider a fixture with T8 bulbs, they are much easier to find and cheaper. While they don't burn out often, you could have one fail or break, and in reality if you use them alot you should change them when they get old due to poor light output. Everyone runs a flourescent till it fails, even though you could see it getting dark and going out. Failing bulbs cause the ballast to heat up and fail prematurely.

Charles
 

snorvet

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Charles - did a lot of research since my last post - agree that T8 is the way to go for reasons you mentioned - looking now at 2 rows of 4- 48" 2 bulb T8 (32 watt per bulb) fixtures. 16 total bulbs @ 2900 lumens = 46,400 total lumens

Saw on another site that garages should be 100 lumens per square foot. I got 420 sf * 100 lumens = 42,000 recommended lumens

I got to get these up before finish taping my drywall - I can hardly see in there
 

camarojim

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Jun 14, 2005
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Iowa
T8 cold flicker

All you guys with T8 bulbs. Do you have cold start flicker ? I just got my 8 ft strips installed this AM, got my bulbs at menards this PM, came home and installed them..the shop is about 55F. when I turned the switch, yes they came on instantly, but they are not bright white. the middle's are pinkish and act like they are flickering-which is the only way I can describe it. the optical effect is like a cork screw working its way across the light tube.

any idea's what might be happening here ?

TIA,
Jim
 

Bill K

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Oct 21, 2005
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Thomasville NC
I have had both and like the 8 footers best. I have had the bulbs from the 2 lamp 4 footers fall out!. If you use 4 ft buy good fixtures not the cheap ones
 

rockwithjason

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if they flicker you need a ballast that is rated for a colder temp. In a garage I generally use 0 deg F rated ballasts
 

camarojim

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Jun 14, 2005
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Iowa
Rock,
yep, warming the temps up higher fixed the flicker. I didn't realize the t8 fixtures were cold sensitive. when i raised the temp higher, the flicker went away. guess I should have done more research to find some cold temp ballasts that used t8's. at least my problem is solved- for now

Jim
 
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Scott

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Dec 21, 2005
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Bothell, WA
I checked out the Lithonia 8ft T8 fixtures at HD this weekend, I think those are the way to go for me. I think they were ~$43 each. I will probably buy 4 of them for my 500sqft garage.
 

carb454

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Sep 29, 2005
Messages
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Location
southern MD.
When we built our house almost ten years ago ,In the garage we had 8' fixtures T-12 I'm pretty sure . One noisy Ballast but a ton of light. There were 7 fixtures 3 on each side length wise down each row and one in the middle between the cars.

In cold temps what a pain wreeeooow-wreeeooow :eyecrazy: , If your going to be out there long enough for everything to warm up,it will go away eventually kerosene heater helps as well...

Oh BTW, anybody over 40 or so will atest that the more light the better :thumbup:
 

rockford33

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Feb 12, 2005
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Maryland
Hey guys, for figurng out how much light you want/need and the number of fixtures, try out this link http://www.metalux-lighting.com/common/CLDownloads.cfm?brand=Metalux

This is Cooper Lightings website, their Metalux brand of fluorescent strip lighting. Although there is probably slight differences between different brands of lighting, I imagine a fluorescent tube is a fluorescent tube and this should get you in the ballpark.

Once there, scroll down to "Strips" and you will see a bunch of fixtures listed. As you mouse over the names, the pic changes to show you a representative fixture. Click on the one you like (I clicked on Series SS, which looked like a twin tube fl. fixture). At the next page, click on IES files (Illuminating Engineering Society I think). That will bring up the files for all of the fixtures in that series. Click at the bottom (on the calculator) where it says "Calculate all Files". This will open a new window.

This is the useful window. You can input the length, width, and height of your garage (or any room), the workplane height (if you are at a bench, this would probably be around 3 feet), and the suspension height (if attached directly to the ceiling, I usually enter 0 for this. If you want to suspend the lights due to a high ceiling, you can enter that measurement). The isometric graphic to the right will chenge with your inputs.

The first tab is the fixture tab. By clicking on "Calculate all Files" previously, you can change the fixture you want on this tab. Most of the time it will give you a brief description (like 2 25 watt fluorescent tubes) and the model number.

After selecting a fixture and inputting the room size, th next tab is the Reflectance tab. I usually leave this alone since I don't know how to figure reflectance. Again, looking for a ballpark figure, so you can play around with those numbers if you like. A bright white painted garage will probably have more reflectance than a brick garage. If you really want to get into it, you can probably find different reflectance values by searching on the web.

The 4th tab is the specify tab. This is the good stuff. You can input the footcandles you want to acheive. An earlier poset mentioned 100 footcandle (I think a footcandle is lumens per foot, don't recall right now). Based on research on the web, I have seen some recommendations of 200 footcandles for detail work, 20-30 footcandles for general lighting. Depending on how you want to configure your garage and what you do in there will determine your needs. If you use it for woodworking or something and needed general lighting only (because you have a shop light at your bench), you can use less fixtures. If you want to daylight your garage because you detail cars in your garage, you will need more footcandles, therefore more fixtures. Only one input is require (footcandles, # of luminaires, or light density). I usually enter footcandles, but have fun and play around. If you already have fixtures, you can probably figure out how many footcandles you have existing and whether or not you want to add more.

After you enter your footcandle requirements, you can specify how the illuminance is calculated (by minimum, target, or maximum). You can play around with these as they are fairly self explanatory.

You will notice as you change the imputs, the picture to the right changes. It updates based on your room size and footcandles,etc. It shows a grid of the chosen fixtures needed to meet your inputs, with dimensions and everything.

For me, I chose fixture #9 (two 40 watt tubes), my garage is 18 feet long x 12 feet wide x 10 feet high, workplane at 2.5 feet, suspension at 0 feet (mounted directly to ceiling). No change to reflectance. Specified 50 footcandle (this is at your workplane specified above) and set it to Minimum Allowed. Based on these setting, I need 4 of these fixtures and I actually get 59 footcandles, with a watt density of 1.66 W/ft^2. Not too shabby. If I change it to Fixture #2 at the first tab, I now need 6 fixtures and only get 44 footcandles. Note how the fixtures change size. Since there is no description for Fixture #2, I imagine, based on the pic and footcandles, that they are probably 4 foot, single tube fixtures.

Once you find a layout that you like, you may need to do a little digging to match it to a model number and get the specifics (like Fixture #9). If you go back to the original window (where you clicked on the IES files), it looks like they have the files on order. So looking at the second one (I clicked on its calculator to verify the IES file number, which was ITL48326), I found out it is a SS-2BX40. Well, what the heck is that? Looking at the ordering info on the different spec sheets a couple of pages previous, it looks like the fixture is a 2 foot long, twin 40 watt tube fixture. Doing the same process for Fixture #9 (it was a little more difficult), I think it is a 4 foot, 40W single T12 tube fixture.

Anyway, sorry for the long post but I hope it helps some people out. I am by no means a lighting expert, but I have learned street lighting as a part of my job (Civil Engineer). I have just applied and passed on the knowledge I have gained to you guys. Do some research on suggested footcandle or watt density requirements for what you plan to use your garage for and use the above info to get you into the ballpark for what it will require to get you there. If anyone needs some additional help, feel free to give me a shout and I'll do what I can.

Thanks,
Neil
 

D-Cal

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Sep 21, 2005
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Edmonton
I have a 26x32 garage. On the ceiling I have two 4 tube 4ft fixtures (Lithonia) on their own switch. On the long back wall I have two 2 tube four footers. On the side walls, a two tube four footer each. Plenty of light. I've all but stopped using a trouble light while working on the cars. Even when I replaced an e-brake cable recently, all work being on the underside of the car, I had enough light.

Only regret is that I didn't put another 2 tube fixture on the other long wall where the garage doors are.

I find that having light coming from many different directions is more imporant than raw total light output.
 

Ed ke6bnl

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Agua Dulce, Calif.
gerry said:
Go with 48" tubes cuz you can find the replacement tubes anywhere and anytime and they are alot easier to store and transport without breaking
A long time ago when I had the 8 footers the price for bulbs where very expensive. has that changed Ed
 

chad pickens

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Bloomington , In
Hey guys Im new to the board, but thought id through in my two cents . I love the light in my 30 by 60 garage. I have 11 foot ceilings (unfinished) and i bought 8 foot flourescents. the ho cold start type and put 110 watt bulbs in them. They work in the coldest of weather and put out more than enough light. In my 40 foot side i hung six, in my 20 foot shop side I have 3 lights its very bright! I got them on sale at menards the fixtures were 38 dollars each and the bulbs were 6 dollars a piece.I hope this helps someone
 

tom.jelly

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Jan 28, 2006
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GA
I built 40x60 shop and built my own fixtures using t5 ho bulbs with the highest kelvin I could find. 18 bulbs, 9 electronic ballast, bought all the parts on ebay and it works great- no flicker even in the cold. Could use even more light on occasion, but I have not added reflectors yet which should really make a difference. 972 watts max but most of the time I have only 1/3rd of them turned on
 
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