Flush Mount Floursecent Recommendations

[CastleSeven]

Hey guys,

I've got a 30x30 shop area to light. I had designed everything around these lights from Home Depot, due to their excellent reviews, 4-light capacity and daisy-chaining capability (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...oplight-1284GRD-RE/202968125#customer_reviews).

I'm having an electrician do the rough-in, and he highly recommended just flush mounting lights, for 3 reasons:

1. Dropping wires through the ceiling for flush mount will be cheaper than mounting boxes and buying outlets.
2. Less chance of hitting a flush-mount light with a long piece of something.
3. Better aesthetics without a bunch of wires plugged into ceiling receptacles.

The problem is I can't really find any 4-light flush mount options around roughly the same price (currently ~$50 each for the hanging fixtures) that have glowing reviews.

Can anyone recommend something similar to the Lithonia ones I posted above, just with a flush mount option?

 

[TonkaJoe]

I know this isn't a 4 bulb fixture, but I did recently pick up 5 of these for my shop to be wired in series and they are bright as hell with natural light T8 bulbs.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...ght-L-2-32-120-GESB/100165074?N=5yc1vZc9h6Zwv

 

[CastleSeven]

I know this isn't a 4 bulb fixture, but I did recently pick up 5 of these for my shop to be wired in series and they are bright as hell with natural light T8 bulbs.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...ght-L-2-32-120-GESB/100165074?N=5yc1vZc9h6Zwv

How big of an area were you illuminating? I would have 9 total in an effort to light a 30x30 area with 10' ceilings.

 

[Ch3No2]

Castle...I went with 4 bulb 4' T Bar lights..and the wholesale house can get the frames for the drywall ceiling. I had my surface mount lights already purchased and ready to go until I went in a friends garage and saw how smooth the flush mount looked

 

[Platonic Solid]

I assume you already considered the 2 lamp, Lithonia Lighting 2-Light White Flanged Fluorescent Troffer $52.87 @ Home Depot (picture linked) with less than "glowing reviews".

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$50 is cheap for a light fixture, so you get what you pay for.

 

[tfi racing]

Mounting lights into the drywall is a good way to waste a lot of time and money for little benefit.Buy surface mount fixtures,screw them to the ceiling,and be done with it.Oh yea,pick a smarter electrician for advice next time.

 

[DC73]

Can anyone recommend something similar to the Lithonia ones I posted above, just with a flush mount option?

Any chance you could convert the lights you found to surface mount? I did this years ago with some similar chain mount lights and it turned out to be pretty easy on those. The top of the light even had the knockout to re-route the wiring to the ceiling junction box. Might be worth exploring.

DC

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I think by "flush mount" the OP really means surface mount. I get this from the mention of dropping a wire thru the sheetrock without a box.

 

[CastleSeven]

Mounting lights into the drywall is a good way to waste a lot of time and money for little benefit.Buy surface mount fixtures,screw them to the ceiling,and be done with it.Oh yea,pick a smarter electrician for advice next time.

I think by "flush mount" the OP really means surface mount. I get this from the mention of dropping a wire thru the sheetrock without a box.

Thanks guys, yea, I screwed up terminology. I really meant surface mount, and from the way the electrician was describing it, that's what he meant too.

While the FLUSH mount lights do look really slick, it does look like a lot of extra time that will result in extra $$ on the drywall work. I think SURFACE mount will do it for me.

 

[CastleSeven]

Castle...I went with 4 bulb 4' T Bar lights..and the wholesale house can get the frames for the drywall ceiling. I had my surface mount lights already purchased and ready to go until I went in a friends garage and saw how smooth the flush mount looked

Do you have a link to the 4 bulb lights that you surface mounted? That's what I actually meant in the original post (not flush mounted, which looks nice, btw). I think for my purposes surface mount will be good enough, I just haven't found a 4-bulb, 4ft, surface mount fixture that has great recommendations attached to it.

 

[CastleSeven]

I did find these....good reviews, 4 T8 bulbs, 4ft long... a little more expensive, but argh if they aren't from Lowes. I'm an HD guy through and through, but I may have to bite the bullet here. Anyone have any thoughts or hands-on experience with these:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_159581-337-WS432_0__

 

[Platonic Solid]

Just lose the chain and surface mount the fixtures you originally selected. Either way it's going to look like cow dung IMHO.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Here, a 4 lamp surface mount fixture that doesn't look like dung and it's cheaper. (image linked)

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[Platonic Solid]

The best way to buy a light fixture is to go to the store - open the box and look at the construction. You really do get what you pay for. For some reason you've decided that $50 is a fair price for a 4 lamp fluorescent fixture. It's not.

 

[67carl]

Wow, someone is having a bad day...

Why can't you surface mount a regular fixture? I used small squares if OSB as a small spacer for airspace, drilled holes in the back of the fixture, then drove screws through into the ceiling. If you don't have a joist insert drywall anchors.

I didn't want the shroud that cast light down but not outward so I bought a couple sheets of that textured plexi (sold right there next to the lights) and will build my own cover that let's light shine out and down.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Wow, someone is having a bad day...

Sorry. I just know what's going to happen. The OP will be back in no time, after buying the lowest cost fixtures available, complaining about RFI buzz on his radio, failing ballasts and lenses that don't stay in place.

Look at it this way:
You buy the fixture for $50.
HD buys the fixture for $25.
The manufacturer makes the fixture for $12.
Even when buying in bulk, a fair quality ballast costs about $9 which tells me the ballast their putting in there is some no-name garbage they got for $3.

 

[CastleSeven]

Sorry. I just know what's going to happen. The OP will be back in no time, after buying the lowest cost fixtures available, complaining about RFI buzz on his radio, failing ballasts and lenses that don't stay in place.

Look at it this way:
You buy the fixture for $50.
HD buys the fixture for $25.
The manufacturer makes the fixture for $12.
Even when buying in bulk, a fair quality ballast costs about $9 which tells me the ballast their putting in there is some no-name garbage they got for $3.

I appreciate the advise Platonic, but I don't need the snark.

I decided the original $50 fixture was "good enough" based on the reviews it got, that's it. I have very crappy fixtures in my attached garage (long warm up when it's cold, lenses that don't quite fit), so most options are going to be a step up, especially considering the fact that I'm throwing 9 fixtures and 36 T8 bulbs into the new detached garage.

Do you have a favorite 4-bulb fixture? I don't care if it's more than $50, but the fact that most people reviewed the original product so highly says to me that it can't be THAT bad. I'm new to this and would rather buy once, so if there are options I'm missing, please tell me. The "not dung" fixture you posted was $40 and had fewer favorable reviews. Was that just an "aesthetics" upgrade?

 

[Platonic Solid]

See I.E.S.N.A. Illuminance (footcandle) Recommendation

Since Lithonia doesn't provide photometrics (or any specs what so ever) for their "1284GRD RE" fixture I had to use their FGB164 series.

9 fixtures spaced 10'x8' provides about 90Fc at 2.5ft workplane height. That's almost Illumination category "F" from I.E.S.N.A. That's 10,700 Lumens per fixture = 96,300 lumens in total. 1026Watts total.

That's 214 Lumens per dollar ($50x9 fixture) and 94 Lumens per Watt.
There's no fixture that I can recommend that can compete with the Lumens per dollar figure and the lumens per watt is respectable too. You could actually get more if it had a high reflectance specular reflector, but as it stands now you'll probably already need a high SPF sunscreen.

According to the FGB specsheet it is not suitable for surface mounting, probably due to heat issues as note 8 states: "Not recommended for high ambient locations". So my previous statement of mounting it on the ceiling was a bad idea.

My preference would be CREE LS4-40L-40K Qty.16 spaced 8'x8' on center provides about 55Fc at 2.5ft workplane height. But they are $128 ea. so $2050 for all. 672Watts total.

If it was my garage I'd make some surface mount boxes and put edge lit panels like these in. You can buy the boxes, but I know I can make a box much cheaper than $119.

 

[Platonic Solid]

This Lithonia LB 4 32 doesn't look bad. 9 fixtures would give you 73Fc at workplane height.

 

[Kevin C]

Since Lithonia doesn't provide photometrics (or any specs what so ever) for their "1284GRD RE" fixture

That light has a ballast with a .82 factor. Decent light but you won't get quite as much light as calculations / estimations might show.

 

[CastleSeven]

This Lithonia LB 4 32 doesn't look bad. 9 fixtures would give you 73Fc at workplane height.

Awesome, thanks for the info Platonic. Those LED panels would look excellent, but I won't be able to reconcile those in my budget.

The Lithonia Wrap 4-light fixtures you posted look good too. I did find some similar (maybe?) fixtures from Lowes for ~$20 less / fixture.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=ZDNPukA8xUsW0b66WE1FrA&bvm=bv.82001339,d.aWw

You seem to know your lighting, so is there anything with the Lowes fixtures that would be a surprise?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Awesome, thanks for the info Platonic. Those LED panels would look excellent, but I won't be able to reconcile those in my budget.

The Lithonia Wrap 4-light fixtures you posted look good too. I did find some similar (maybe?) fixtures from Lowes for ~$20 less / fixture.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=ZDNPukA8xUsW0b66WE1FrA&bvm=bv.82001339,d.aWw

You seem to know your lighting, so is there anything with the Lowes fixtures that would be a surprise?

At least the Lowes Metalux Ws Series fixture states it's using a name brand ballast: "Universal". The Lithonia LB4 ballast is unspecified. The IES photometric files are basically the same for both fixtures. From what I can see in the pictures, it appears that the Lithonia end housing is steel and the Metalux is plastic. If you're wiring all the fixtures through the back then it's not a big deal, but running surface conduit to a plastic end housing may require a delicate touch to avoid cracking it. Looks worth going to the store and opening a box to check it out. I know people are reluctant to do this, but it's the only way to know if it's worthy. Looking at that 1 guys negative review, you should probably open all 9 boxes and verify that the ballast is correct before leaving the store.

Before you buy anything though, you need to consider exactly what you do in the garage. With a 30x30 I assume a 2 bay with workshop and/or storage area. Consider that the perfect lighting situation is if the whole ceiling lit up, thus you would have no significant shadows. The fewer fixtures you have the more shadows you’ll have.



Good Luck

 

[CastleSeven]

Before you buy anything though, you need to consider exactly what you do in the garage. With a 30x30 I assume a 2 bay with workshop and/or storage area. Consider that the perfect lighting situation is if the whole ceiling lit up, thus you would have no significant shadows. The fewer fixtures you have the more shadows you’ll have.

Good Luck

The space is actually 30x40, and yes you are correct it is a 2-bay. I'm not worrying about lights above where the garage doors will be, as there will either be a) cars in the way or b) the doors will be up. I figured the 30x30 space to the rear of the cars is where all the work will be done. Off the back end is a separate dog kennel and lawn shed, so ignore those for these purposes.

Again, I'm no expert, but I feel like standing underneath the middle of that 3x3 array of lights will yield a good amount of work-level light. I'll post a followup once they're all wired in. Thanks again for all the help.

Bigger image: http://i.imgur.com/j1As1VD.png

 

[dylanmitchell]

Looking for info on the Cree CREE LS4-40L-40K and came across this forum. Got a few from CED used them in a smaller garage application. Light quality is stunning and better than anything inside my house. They put out gorgeous light.
My calc should swapping these in or the existing th would yield about 20% more light. But the light is so clean it looks much brighter than that so you may need less fixtures than you think. And with a 10-year warranty I get to stay off a letter for at least that long not replacing burnt out T8s.