Flux Core Welding

[Phil S.]

How come no one uses Flux Core (gasless) welding?

 

[ckadams00]

I'm about to start, just got a Hobart for Christmas. What I've heard/learned is that it produces a lot more smoke and spatter. Since i don't know any better I'm just gonna start welding, but my unit can be upgraded to gas and everyone I've talked to says I should go that way asap.

 

[Chaznsc]

I am told that a lot of industry uses it, but its sloppy like arc welding in terms of splatter and leave-behind slag that has to be cleaned up. Ive not talked to anyone who doesn't prefer using gas.

 

[diggerrick]

I do because I haven't ponied up for a bottle yet.

My little Lincoln HandyMIG does both.

Guys with the cheaper flux only machines like the famous <$100 HF machine don't have a choice.

Flux core welding requires a lot more cleanup than when using shielding gas.

 

[Provincial]

Lots of people use flux core. It has some disadvantages, but also some distinct advantages.

Pros:
* The machine costs less, especially when buying one without the gas bottle regulator/valves, etc.
* No gas bottle and regulator to handle, maintain, and refill.
* Easy to control. Less operator skill required to get a decent looking weld.
* Can be used in a breeze. Gas shield gets blown away by even slight wind currents and results in a poor weld.
* No gas cup needed, so it fits in tighter places.
* Small machines can weld thicker material with flux core than with gas shield wire.
* Quick to set up and shut down - no messing with the gas bottle valve.
* More portable, since you don't have a gas cylinder involved.

Cons:
* Leaves a layer of slag that needs to be removed. Slag always complicates clean-up and multiple-pass operations.
* Not as good as gas shield wire for out-of-position welding. Vertical and overhead welds are more difficult to do well. Quality wire reduces this difference.
* Smoke and fumes are greater than gas shielded welding.
* Less satisfactory welds on thin materials, like sheet metal. This is as much a factor of the type of work done with sheet metal as it is the properties of the welding process.

Depending on what you are doing, flux core may be a better option.

 

[LX-Markham]

Nothing wrong with flux-core, it's like stick welding minus the stick.
I use it for when I'm welding thicker material, or when I don't care how the weld looks. I got a big spool for cheap, and I don't have to waste gas.

Lincoln SP-135

 

[skyking]

The welds look like **** . You can weld in the wind , but most of us dont . If the welders came with bottles or flow meters then no one would use flux core. I have had me 140a for 6 years and finally broke down and bought a bottle and regulator.My welds look terrific and I assume they are much better.
Spend the money.......you will be glad you did.

 

[liquidh8]

I have one and use it alot. My lift is outside, so alot of the welding repairs I do on cars are on the lift outside. Like exhaust and stuff. If it has to be a clear repair, I use my TIG indoors. The flux core has its place. I will be buying another MIG, just to use shielding gas.

 

[Zeke]

I have one and use it alot. My lift is outside, so alot of the welding repairs I do on cars are on the lift outside. Like exhaust and stuff. If it has to be a clear repair, I use my TIG indoors. The flux core has its place. I will be buying another MIG, just to use shielding gas.

This. Having a 120v FCAW machine to grab and go is great. For instance I have a steel fence and gate repair coming up and I will cut, grind, splice, grind and paint. I'm going to be grinding anyway, so it's all the same to me.

 

[madcrisis]

I only use flux core or stick because im still learning and i dont have a place to weld in doors. It takes a little more clean up but you can weld the thicker stuff too.

 

[Professur]

FC works far better on rusty dirty metal than solid w/C25. It's frequently found under off road vehicles fixing what broke so they can get out and get home. It's less 'stick welding without the stick' as 'stick welding with a really skinny stick that you don't have to worry about feeding in'. If you need to weld a spring shackle back on, it's FC you'll be wanting.

 

[liquidh8]

FC works far better on rusty dirty metal than solid w/C25. It's frequently found under off road vehicles fixing what broke so they can get out and get home. It's less 'stick welding without the stick' as 'stick welding with a really skinny stick that you don't have to worry about feeding in'. If you need to weld a spring shackle back on, it's FC you'll be wanting.

I agree. I have taken my little WELD PAK with me on road trips, racing, etc. Handy tool to grab and go. Just like Zeke said.

 

[LX-Markham]

oh, that reminds me: another reason I sometimes use the FC is because of tight spaces. I find it difficult sometimes, upside down, under the car, welding something I can barely see. The FC tip is much smaller than the gas setup.

 

[Engine]

Lots of people use flux core. It has some disadvantages, but also some distinct advantages.

Pros:
* The machine costs less, especially when buying one without the gas bottle regulator/valves, etc.
* No gas bottle and regulator to handle, maintain, and refill.
* Easy to control. Less operator skill required to get a decent looking weld.
* Can be used in a breeze. Gas shield gets blown away by even slight wind currents and results in a poor weld.
* No gas cup needed, so it fits in tighter places.
* Small machines can weld thicker material with flux core than with gas shield wire.
* Quick to set up and shut down - no messing with the gas bottle valve.
* More portable, since you don't have a gas cylinder involved.

Cons:
* Leaves a layer of slag that needs to be removed. Slag always complicates clean-up and multiple-pass operations.
* Not as good as gas shield wire for out-of-position welding. Vertical and overhead welds are more difficult to do well. Quality wire reduces this difference.
* Smoke and fumes are greater than gas shielded welding.
* Less satisfactory welds on thin materials, like sheet metal. This is as much a factor of the type of work done with sheet metal as it is the properties of the welding process.

Depending on what you are doing, flux core may be a better option.

This basically explains it all.

FCAW also has the advantage that it can achieve a satisfactory weld when the base metal is somewhat rusty, oily, or has mill scale. It also has the disadvantage of producing more spatter that may need to be cleaned off.

The main advantage to me is that it can be used in windy conditions. GMAW welds usually have problems with porosity in the wind because the shielding gas is blown away. FCAW is common in construction and pipe welding due to that fact as well as that more weld metal can be deposited at a higher rate, thus increasing productivity.

Another consideration is that there are several types of flux core wire for different applications. The type most commonly available (and lowest priced) is E71T-GS which is a "general service" wire and is recommended to be used in applications where only a single pass is required. Another, somewhat more expensive, type that is common is E71T-11 which can be used in work requiring multiple passes. This is according to the ESAB handbook of cored wire products: http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/FM_handbook/577fm5_2.htm

 

[strutaeng]

For structural steel welding governed by the AWS (American Welding Society), most of the welding is considered "pre-qualified" if you use FCAW (flux-cored).

I can't think off the top of my head, but I think using GMAW (MIG) can be pre-qualified weld for overhead applications.

Bear in mind that there is also FCAW-G, which does use a shielding gas.

As far as I know, all structural steel fabricators use FCAW.

...but I agree with everyone here about using flux-cored vs. MIG. I usually use it for welding jobs where strength is more important than appearance and MIG for appearance and thin stuff.

 

[SlappyWhite]

My Lincoln can do both. I pretty much only do FCAW on steel. Comes down to cost and convenience for me.

 

[warweapon762]

I've used flux-cored welding for body work on vehicles and exhaust systems. Yes there is spatter and ****, but its easily cleaned up. I like that I can get good penetration with lower amperage. I also use a flux-core nozzle on mine and it REALLY can get in tight places. Its also a little easier to see the weld puddle with this type of nozzle. There are some techniques you can do to improve the appearance of flux-cored welds as well (I think there are a few youtube videos by Chucke2009 that detail this).

 

[92GreenYJ]

In my experience flux core just looks like *** and takes way too much clean up afterwards. I've done it, hated it, won't do it again. I still have a small spool on the welding table but only use it in a pinch if I run out of gas and need to finish whatever I am doing right then and there. Otherwise I wait til I get the bottle refilled. Same reason I haven't touched my old Lincoln Tombstone in a good five years. Once you go MIG you won't go back.

 

[ishiboo]

In my experience flux core just looks like *** and takes way too much clean up afterwards. I've done it, hated it, won't do it again. I still have a small spool on the welding table but only use it in a pinch if I run out of gas and need to finish whatever I am doing right then and there. Otherwise I wait til I get the bottle refilled. Same reason I haven't touched my old Lincoln Tombstone in a good five years. Once you go MIG you won't go back.

Flux core does not look like ***. There can be some spatter, but you can do very nice beads with flux no problem.

A lot of the hatred comes from inexperienced welders with small, 120v machines, trying to weld too much. Despite the fact that FCAW gives them more heat, a gas weld is easier to make look nice and cover up poor technique.

I have a bottle but usually choose flux-core, since I work on painted/rusty things, 3 point implements, etc. I don't have an issue with making a nice looking weld provided I hit it with the wire wheel and can see what I'm doing.

Cost is not really that much of an issue, flux-core wire is basically 2X the cost of plain, gas is cheap and lasts a long time. Probably a wash when all is said and done unless you're too broke to invest in a $90 bottle.

 

[mark viii mark]

If your fluxcore welds look like **** you need more practice. I've used 5/64 on the job and .035 at home, all look great and pass UT inspection. Mig and Fluxcore each have they're uses, but both are great processes.

 

[trackwelder]

Fcaw is not dirty, and can provide superior results in the right conditions. I have burned thousands of rolls of it in with no spatter. Like anything else you need the right equipment, and the skill to make it right. I love to burn some er70s-6 on a nice spring day. Gosh I hope spring comes soon!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[lotsoftools]

I use flux core almost exclusively on my projects. It's not that difficult to clean up.

 

[zkling]

How come no one uses Flux Core (gasless) welding?

That is a really uneducated and open ended question.

A lot of the hatred comes from inexperienced welders with small, 120v machines, trying to weld too much. Despite the fact that FCAW gives them more heat, a gas weld is easier to make look nice and cover up poor technique.

This, x10

Like any tool it has its uses. I'm going to assume (yes dangerous I know) you meant to ask something along the lines of "How come flux core welding is not prevalent among hobbyist?"

Welding for the hobbyist is a real catch 22 as they say. Most hobby welding is on thin(er) material, clean, done indoors or the driveway, visual appearance is usually a high requirement, more often than not different types of metals, particularly non ferrous alloys. Not to mention the biggest consideration for many, COST.

What that really translates to is most hobby work is suited to a well equipted tig or mig machine. The reason you see quite a few hobbiest with stick and flux core welders quite simple.... Cost. Gas bottles are not cheap, are a pain to obtain at times, hard to transport, etc.

Flux core and stick welding have their uses in the welding world, and industry really couldn't do without them. However their place is really not in the garage of the average DIY guy or gal that one week may be replacing some sheet metal, next week welding up a turbo setup (aluminum parts) or the following week building a go kart frame for their child.

Why do people select it, $
Why do people complain about it? Not the proper tool for the job at hand.

 

[Ruger_556]

I can make a FCAW weld look better than many can with a MIG... It's all in the hands of the user.

 

[jherm]

I've used both, and they both have their place. I've tried flux core on thin sheet metal for body repay and that took a but of patience just to get small tacks done. Everything thicker i have no problem either way. I'd like to have two machines set up, one for each, but it's not in the cards right now

 

[RivennHewn]

I do all my welding outside. early on, I had two near accidents with fire.

No more welding inside my house/garage. Nothing I'm working on is as important as my house.

I don't mind cleaning up the mess.

I also don't miss F'n around with the bottle.

 

[andrewmacc]

FCAW is used all over in structural applications. They just built an overpass and I stopped for a second to watch, they were running FCAW around the embedded structural pipe posts.. and I can hardly guess, but I'd say the pipes were maybe more than 15 feet in diameter.
Those who say it looks like **** are typically inexperienced and just generally poor welders. If you can run a bead to save your life, there's negligible spatter, if really any. It doesn't clean up like a GMAW weld will, other than that it's all in the welder's hands.

I don't typically surf weldporn but here is a good example I had actually come across when I perused the images:

 

[strutaeng]

If your fluxcore welds look like **** you need more practice. I've used 5/64 on the job and .035 at home, all look great and pass UT inspection. Mig and Fluxcore each have they're uses, but both are great processes.

I agree.

I've meet steel erection contractors that will treat weldors like kings that consistently pass Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) such as Ultrasound Testing (UT).

The difference here is professional vs. amateur

 

[mark viii mark]

I agree.

I've meet steel erection contractors that will treat weldors like kings that consistently pass Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) such as Ultrasound Testing (UT).

The difference here is professional vs. amateur [/QU

I'm not understanding your reply, a weld UT tested is either Pass or Fail by the qualified inspector, what input does the steel contractor have to pass it if it's non compliant?
But i'll agree, there are some weldors who should have their fingers broke

 

[Professur]

I believe he's saying that welders that consistently pass inspectors inspections get treated like royalty by their paying employers.

 

[Zrexxer]

In my experience flux core just looks like *** and takes way too much clean up afterwards.

What part of these welds look like "***?" Both were done with fluxcore. The first one is .045 FC run on a Millermatic Vintage, welding 1/4x3x3 angle to 1/2 footing plates. The second is .030 FC run with a little 115V Hobart 125 portable welder. I don't weld for a living, these are just run-of-the-mill work. There are tons of guys out there that can do a hell of a lot better with fluxcore than I can in these examples.

If your fluxcore looks like *** and is nothing but spatter, you're doing it wrong.

 

[mark viii mark]

I believe he's saying that welders that consistently pass inspectors inspections get treated like royalty by their paying employers.

I understand now, kind of read it ****-eyed the first time. Yes good weldors are worth holding on to. I've seen more than a few times guys grinding out welds that failed due to porosity or improper technique, a waste of money and man hours.

 

[mark viii mark]

What part of these welds look like "***?" Both were done with fluxcore. The first one is .045 FC run on a Millermatic Vintage, welding 1/4x3x3 angle to 1/2 footing plates. The second is .030 FC run with a little 115V Hobart 125 portable welder. I don't weld for a living, these are just run-of-the-mill work. There are tons of guys out there that can do a hell of a lot better with fluxcore than I can in these examples.

If your fluxcore looks like *** and is nothing but spatter, you're doing it wrong.

Yes, good looking welds, nice tie-in on both sides. Here's a vertical up with 5/64 innershield, alittle spatter but cleaned up nice.

 

[Ruger_556]

Yes, good looking welds, nice tie-in on both sides. Here's a vertical up with 5/64 innershield, alittle spatter but cleaned up nice.

That's about what mine usually look like... I got flux core down but I always have to fight with dual shield to get a nice weld. Seems like it's a lot more picky about voltage and wire speed for some reason but could just be our machine.

 

[exophyusical]

How come no one uses Flux Core (gasless) welding?

Short answer, because it ***** in every possible way, relative to pretty much any other method of welding..

 

[mark viii mark]

That's about what mine usually look like... I got flux core down but I always have to fight with dual shield to get a nice weld. Seems like it's a lot more picky about voltage and wire speed for some reason but could just be our machine.

I've only run dual shield one time, the machine was already set up, ran nice and put down a lot of metal from what I remember, it was many years ago.

 

[Ruger_556]

I've only run dual shield one time, the machine was already set up, ran nice and put down a lot of metal from what I remember, it was many years ago.

Duel shield is a beautiful weld once you have the machine dialed in but dayum it take's patience to get it running nice. Vertical welds just lay in perfectly with no runs and just a glass smooth finish There must be secret to getting it set up quicker that I don't know

 

[exophyusical]

Duel shield is a beautiful weld once you have the machine dialed in but dayum it take's patience to get it running nice. Vertical welds just lay in perfectly with no runs and just a glass smooth finish There must be secret to getting it set up quicker that I don't know

Duel shield welding deffinatly has its place, I don't think theres any real secret to setting it up, but one thing that can throw you for a loop is the gas. Any kind of inconsistency in gas mixture will effect what heat and wire speed that you need to achieve spray transfer. If your not spraying then your not going to get a good weld. I've needed to adjust everything after changing bottles that supposedly had the exact same gas mixture in both.

One of the most frustrating experiences of my welding career was working in a shop that mixed its own gas. They bought dewers of C02 and argon and ran them through a manifold system, you just plugged a quick connect hose into the wall and your machine had gas. The problem was that it was never consistant and you were always having to make adjustments to the machine to keep it running properly.

 

[Engine]

This is a weld I did a few days ago using some cheap flux core wire. I'm just an amateur welder and I was using a small Hobart mig welder.

It shows that, with some practice, you can make good strong welds that look OK. It has a lot of spatter, but that's mainly because I had the voltage turned up high to get good fusion on this 1/4" to 3/16" T joint.

You can see how much rust and mill scale there is on the metal. Using gas shielded bare wire probably would need cleaner metal than this.

 

[GreenLBZ]

Fluxcore is easy and if you work outside, it's great.