Flywheel and clutch balancer

[callcoy]

I picked up a flywheel and clutch balancer some time ago but it did not come with a manual. The machine is the horizontal operation type, uses a flat table that vibrates, this is not the type that spins the crank or flywheel. I am trying to gain more information on the machine. I can not find any reference or name plate on the machine, so I don't even know who manufactured the product. Any leads for information would be appreciated, I can text photos of the unit. I don't think I am capable of posting photos without help.
Steve

 

[atikovi]

Flywheels are balanced at the factory and clutches weigh so little in comparison so balance is insignificant. Is this something made and used back in the day before modern manufacturing made them obsolete? I can imagine it might be as useful as old style bubble wheel balancers.

 

[Steve_P]

Clutches and pressure plates are neutral balanced- they don't get "balanced" with a custom engine build. I've never heard of a machine that operates like the OP described, and I'm guessing for a reason... because it's not very accurate; hence it's long obsolete. The spin method has been used at least 50+ years ago at factories.

 

[Packard V8]

Flywheels are balanced at the factory and clutches weigh so little in comparison so balance is insignificant.

When an engine is rebuilt for precision and performance, the flywheel and pressure plate or flexplate are always balanced with the crankshaft.

Clutches and pressure plates are neutral balanced- they don't get "balanced" with a custom engine build.

Not at our shop; the pressure plate is still balanced with the flywheel and marked so it can be reinstalled in the same position as which it was balanced.

Yes, the clutch disc is neutral balanced, because it comes to rest in a different spot each time. However, a high bucks NASCAR built will precision spin balance the clutch disc, because at 9,000 RPM, even a little bit off is a lot.

jack vines

 

[2oolhound]

I'm not the right guy to coach you on posting photos but it's easy. jpg work best for me. Above your message where you type are a bunch of icons. Click on the one that looks like mountains and a dialog box pops up. Drag your jpg file there and you're done.

I'd love to see some pics of this machine. There are2 methods, static - where the outer bearing journals ride on knife edge rails (but your's also sounds like a static balancer) and then there's dynamic which is more precision and what precision balance shops use (rotational) so attention can be paid to the power band and red line ranges.

 

[callcoy]

I'm not the right guy to coach you on posting photos but it's easy. jpg work best for me. Above your message where you type are a bunch of icons. Click on the one that looks like mountains and a dialog box pops up. Drag your jpg file there and you're done.

I'd love to see some pics of this machine. There are2 methods, static - where the outer bearing journals ride on knife edge rails (but your's also sounds like a static balancer) and then there's dynamic which is more precision and what precision balance shops use (rotational) so attention can be paid to the power band and red line ranges.

Shoot me a number that I can text to and I will seed you photos. I think you can PM me at least you can on the HAMB, se my responce to those who taken their time to respond to my post'
Thank You

 

[callcoy]

Appreciate all of you responding to my post, maybe I should have told you why I would even consider such a machine. I own a number of 90+ year old Model A fords and because of my back ground I tweak the original 40 HP 4 bangers for durability and performance. These engines stock have Babbitt bearings, gravity fed mains and rods, 3 main bearings and most run out of HP and torque at 25-2600 rpm. So the bearings get replaced with inserts, pressured oiling installed and all of the things you would do to make your small block beat the guy next door. Some of us on the proformance side of things will buzz these things over 4000, my daughter and I have been involved with a car where 4000 is exceeded by quite margin. But that is at Bonneville and El Mirage, different balancing is employed. The flywheels on the stock engines weigh 62-63 pounds, that combined with the 12 spring stock clutch take their toll on the rear main trust surface and because of the spindly crank the center main suffers. I can cut the stock flywheels down to 35# or sometimes less, redrill for the 9" Ford 6 spring clutch, this is why I want to use this balance machine. Any leads will be appreciated!

 

[BillK]

There are still balancers exactly like you are describing. They are mostly used to balance torque converters and I dont see why they would not work on flywheels and clutch pressure plates also.

Here is an example:

Torque Converter Balancer - SuperFlow

The TCRS Torque Converter Balancer is capable of providing repeatable, as well as extremely accurate and efficient balancing.

powertestdyno.com

If you go to the bottom of the screen when you reply there is a "button" to attach files. Click on that and you should be able to attach your pics.

 

[BillK]

By the way depending on how much the machine is selling for it might be easier and less expensive to just have a local machine shop that does balancing do it for you. I typically charge $60 to balance a flywheel on my crankshaft balancer.

 

[callcoy]

By the way depending on how much the machine is selling for it might be easier and less expensive to just have a local machine shop that does balancing do it for you. I typically charge $60 to balance a flywheel on my crankshaft balancer.

I have owned the machine for several years, it came with a welder, drill press and 75# of clutch weights, when I set it up it will pay for it self in no time. I bought a number of pieces of equipment from a friend that that was closing his shop the building was sold and he didn't own it. This is more of a hobby type thing, I don't need to do this, but I want to!

 

[RPH]

I have owned the machine for several years, it came with a welder, drill press and 75# of clutch weights, when I set it up it will pay for it self in no time. I bought a number of pieces of equipment from a friend that that was closing his shop the building was sold and he didn't own it. This is more of a hobby type thing, I don't need to do this, but I want to!

Keep digging, it sounds like fun and keeping the old racers running is amazing. I applaud your efforts. How many can say they have seen a racing model t four banger?

 

[Packard V8]

Keep digging, it sounds like fun and keeping the old racers running is amazing. I applaud your efforts. How many can say they have seen a racing model t four banger?

The guy who grinds cams for me also builds Ts and As. He and his brother enter the Montana 500 each year and between the two of them have won it at least five times.

It's a two-day 500-mile race on public roads, because the Ts aren't capable of reaching the speed limits. When the weather turns bad, 45 MPH in a T roadster is a test of strong men and women.

https://mt500.info/

jack vines

 

[atikovi]

There are still balancers exactly like you are describing. They are mostly used to balance torque converters and I dont see why they would not work on flywheels and clutch pressure plates also.

Here is an example:

Torque Converter Balancer - SuperFlow

The TCRS Torque Converter Balancer is capable of providing repeatable, as well as extremely accurate and efficient balancing.

powertestdyno.com

If you go to the bottom of the screen when you reply there is a "button" to attach files. Click on that and you should be able to attach your pics.

• Maximum spindle torque of 263 in-lbs (30N-m) and a max speed of 480 rpm

Just how is it supposed balance a converter that spins at 8,000 rpm if the tool only goes to 480 rpm?

 

[Packard V8]

• Maximum spindle torque of 263 in-lbs (30N-m) and a max speed of 480 rpm

Just how is it supposed balance a converter that spins at 8,000 rpm if the tool only goes to 480 rpm?

The crankshaft balancer we use only spins to 480 RPM.

jack vines

 

[atikovi]

So how can it even test for balance when the part spins 20 times faster?

 

[Packard V8]

So how can it even test for balance when the part spins 20 times faster?

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke

jack vnes

 

[American Locomotive]

So how can it even test for balance when the part spins 20 times faster?

If there is an imbalance on a spinning part, that imbalance will exist at every speed. The force that imbalance creates simply gets stronger as speed increases. If your machine was sensitive enough, you could theoretically balance at 1 RPM.

 

[atikovi]

If there is an imbalance on a spinning part, that imbalance will exist at every speed. The force that imbalance creates simply gets stronger as speed increases. If your machine was sensitive enough, you could theoretically balance at 1 RPM.

Not totally accurate. A tire that rides smooth at 35 mph might have a noticeable imbalance at 70 mph.

 

[American Locomotive]

Not totally accurate. A tire that rides smooth at 35 mph might have a noticeable imbalance at 70 mph.

The imbalance always exists in an out of balance tire - from 0.1 MPH all the way to 250 MPH. The vehicle dynamics (suspension design, size/weight of tire, etc..) will determine at what speed the imbalance is felt. At certain speeds the vehicle may be able to mask the imbalance, other speeds it can't.

Tires are typically balanced at 100 RPM, which would only be about 10-15 MPH road speed. You can balance a turbocharger's rotating assembly at 1,000 RPM, even though it may spin 100,000 RPM in operation. As long as your equipment is sensitive enough, you can balance at basically any speed.