Foam Board wall insulation

[fitch]

Looking to insulate my 24x40x10 pole barn walls. I am considering foam board. My thought was to either cut it and put it between the 2x4 perlins that run long ways, or place sheets over top of the the perlins which would leave a gap between the board and steel siding. Speaking to some, they said insects eat, or infest the board. I currently have 12-15" blown in insulation in my ceiling while my Mr. heater 75K knocks the chill off, I would like it to be warmer. So far it seems foam board would be less expensive than other alternatives. Appreciate any opinions or past experiences. Home Depot fellows really couldn't answer this question.

Thanks

Fitch

 

[James-W]

I know that some people have gone with spray foam, but that would be quite expensive. On the other hand, spray foam would seal everything up and make the building a whole lot easier to heat.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Fitch, Be careful some of that stuff is very flammable. If you are going to be welding or using a torch, You should check into it before it is too late.

 

[fitch]

Spray foam was a little on the expensive side. Being in Michigan it would be the most efficient way. As far as being very flammable, is there a special foam board that would work better? Again, not sure about the infestation issue either.

 

[classic boost]

placing the foam over the purlins would be better than in between them. less thermal breaks the better.
also- check craigslist for foam insl. i got 4 inch thick boards for $2.50/sht last year.

 

[Elginz]

The issue with foam board is that is should be sealed all around, like leaving a gap and using foam to seal the edges. At minimum caulking all around to seal. If multiple layers are used seal between layers also. Air movement and, radiant loss. If there are seams at least tape them.

 

[Rnbuck01]

You have the attic insulated right, why not insulate the walls right also?

 

[Voi]

Spray foam was a little on the expensive side.

I can tell you that if you pay full price for XPS and cut it to fit between the girts (I assume when you wrote purlins you actually meant girts since you already said your ceiling was insulated?) you'll darn near approach the price of closed cell spray foam, assuming you use canned foam to seal all of the edges and gaps. The reason why is you'll have some waste with cutting the rigid and the expense of the canned foam adds up quickly.

So over the top of the girts if rigid is the way you want to go. Like the previous post said, you'll have a better thermal break but also waste less foam and have fewer linear inches of gaps to seal.

Insects and rodents would worry me too. I've never had to make the decision on how to insulate a pole barn. Just wanted to share my experience with the costs associated with rigid foam cut to fit between framing members.

 

[2012Eli3]

No photo but steel is ribbed of some sort so there will be some gap in ribs no matter what. install it between columns horizontal tape it and foam over top to seal the rest top to bottom. Then install some type of sheeting over top. you can put all your wiring/plumbing behind sheeting. you don't want exposed insulation no matter what kind it is and it looks like **** if you don't put up some type of sheeting in a sort time period. go for it

 

[Dragfluid]

Put gerts on the inside of the poles, staple on the netting, and blow in cellulose to dense pack it. Then put on your 1" foam panels and put drywall over the top. You don't want exposed foam on the walls.

See my build for details. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5235899&postcount=16

 

[Autorotica]

I bought several truck loads of roofing foam from a roofing company who was selling their business. Paid about a dime a board foot for it. I put it over the girts and screwed it to them with load spreaders... Made the building quieter and stiffer too.

It was 14* the other morning when I left for work. I popped into my unheated "shed" and it was 34*.

That was the most cost effective insulation I could come up with.
Chris

 

[fitch]

Thanks to all. I appreciate the options.

 

[MattBMiller]

I installed 1.5" XPS foam between my girts for my first layer of insulation. As soon as it warms up in the spring, I'll be spraying an inch of spray foam over the XPS and girts to seal everything up. I didn't want to spray directly on the steel, so I did it this way. It was pretty tedious, cutting the pieces to fit, but I'm happy with the outcome so far.

 

[stihlntime]

I insulated my 60x80 with foam board over the purloins 10 years ago taped the seams. No issue with bugs or insects. Insulated the house with 6" cellulose with 1" foam board with reflective foil on the outside of the studs. I only spend 300.00 a year on propane and 250.00 on wood pellets heating 5200 sq ft.

 

[Nhrafan26]

I bought several truck loads of roofing foam from a roofing company who was selling their business. Paid about a dime a board foot for it. I put it over the girts and screwed it to them with load spreaders... Made the building quieter and stiffer too.

It was 14* the other morning when I left for work. I popped into my unheated "shed" and it was 34*.

That was the most cost effective insulation I could come up with.
Chris

Wow, you don't happen to have any left you'd want to sell do you?

 

[rburke65]

Do a check on Craigslist for used or "seconds" foam board. I got foam board .....225 4x8' sheets of 2 1/2" ..... free from a roofing/insulation contractor who was replacing a roof on a school. They were giving it away. Good luck. I know locally, in Akron, Ohio, there is a fellow that sells 2nd hand foam.

 

[Autorotica]

Wow, you don't happen to have any left you'd want to sell do you?

Sorry, I dont....

Keep checking Craigslist. That is where I found mine and it seemed like no one else knew about it...

Chris

 

[NUTTSGT]

Do a check on Craigslist for used or "seconds" foam board. I got foam board .....225 4x8' sheets of 2 1/2" ..... free from a roofing/insulation contractor who was replacing a roof on a school. They were giving it away. Good luck. I know locally, in Akron, Ohio, there is a fellow that sells 2nd hand foam.

Would that be Foil King ?

I've seen the ads on CL and it's seems to be a good price.

 

[Nhrafan26]

I just found a guy that will sell me 2" board for approx 14.13 a sheet.
What do you guys think? It sounds like a good price to me after checking Lowes but is there anywhere else I should be comparing to?

 

[Voi]

I just found a guy that will sell me 2" board for approx 14.13 a sheet.
What do you guys think? It sounds like a good price to me after checking Lowes but is there anywhere else I should be comparing to?

EPS? XPS? Polyiso? Foil faced?

 

[Nhrafan26]

EPS? XPS? Polyiso? Foil faced?

Polyiso I am told.

 

[Voi]

Polyiso I am told.

Looking at Menards' website I see their 2" polyiso is from $28 to $36 so I think $14 might be a fair asking price.

But from my experience polyiso seems to handle bad storage and mishandling about as bad or worse than EPS so you'll really need to see it in person and assess the condition.

 

[NUTTSGT]

When you haul it, if your tailgate isn't long enough, put down a couple 2x4s for it to sit on. Then lay a 4x8 sheet of osb or whatever and strap it down. If it's windy, have a friend help you load it so the wind doesn't catch it and break it.

 

[loweredd]

I installed 1.5" XPS foam between my girts for my first layer of insulation. As soon as it warms up in the spring, I'll be spraying an inch of spray foam over the XPS and girts to seal everything up. I didn't want to spray directly on the steel, so I did it this way. It was pretty tedious, cutting the pieces to fit, but I'm happy with the outcome so far.

What was the reason for not spraying right on the steel?

 

[oilslick]

What was the reason for not spraying right on the steel?

I am curious as well.

 

[Autorotica]

What was the reason for not spraying right on the steel?

I was told by a foam installer that they wanted a much heavier gauge metal to spray foam on. Supposedly the heat of curing and cooling would wrinkle and distort the metal.

Chris

 

[COBRA5LADDICT]

For me i live in an area that sees hail quite frequently in the summer. there are very good odds that the steel will be hail beat and need replacement a couple times in my lifetime. if spray foamed, i cant imagine getting the steel off without ruining the spray foam.
i also installed 1.5" xps (second hand) between my girts before batt insulation. i used expanding foam (like great stuff) to "seal" the foam to the wood. Then i ran batt between the girts. my theory was as simple as trying to stop as much air infiltration through the wall assembly as possible.

 

[gungatim]

I bought several truck loads of roofing foam from a roofing company who was selling their business. Paid about a dime a board foot for it. I put it over the girts and screwed it to them with load spreaders... Made the building quieter and stiffer too.

It was 14* the other morning when I left for work. I popped into my unheated "shed" and it was 34*.

That was the most cost effective insulation I could come up with.
Chris

that's exactly what I did as well. used take-out from a contractor. paid $1.50 per sheet, 4x8x1.5" fiberglass faced R9. cut with a bread knife to fit between the side wall gurts, and the ceiling held up with 3" drywall screws and fender washers. not the greatest insulation but works well and stays easily 20 degrees warmer than outside temp when not heated.

 

[TXBDan]

What's the recommended R-value for the ceiling and walls of a detached 2-car garage? I see a lot for sale on craigslist and this has the wheels turning...

 

[MattBMiller]

What was the reason for not spraying right on the steel?

Mainly for ease of steel removal/replacement if I ever need to service a panel, but it's also a bit cheaper to top coat the XPS with only 1" of spray foam vs. 2-3" without the XPS. I got a good deal on the XPS though.

I was also warned about steel panel distortion without the XPS.

 

[loweredd]

Good enough! Thank you.

 

[formanbob]

I installed 1.5" XPS foam between my girts for my first layer of insulation. As soon as it warms up in the spring, I'll be spraying an inch of spray foam over the XPS and girts to seal everything up. I didn't want to spray directly on the steel, so I did it this way. It was pretty tedious, cutting the pieces to fit, but I'm happy with the outcome so far.

I like this idea. if you end up residing or adding on you don't have to get a partner saw to remove the metal.
How big is your building?

 

[MattBMiller]

I like this idea. if you end up residing or adding on you don't have to get a partner saw to remove the metal.
How big is your building?

56x72 overall

 

[Nhrafan26]

Well got my trailer load of 2"foam today. Drove a little over an hour there and more back being careful but it made it!
Now I'm making a scaffold setup ago I can get them up!
I can't wait until I'm not losing all my heat out the roof!

 

[Autorotica]

Nice find! The material I used was almost all tapered and we had to mix and match to get desired thickness.

Chris

 

[Nhrafan26]

I wanted to ask you guys how did you install the foam? I was looking at 3" drywall screws with maybe the largest fender washers I could find? Not sure if I can get a big enough washer though to spread the weight of the board.
Being that they are 2" thick they should be a little more stable though too.
Looking for an option I can pick up at Lowe's or a hardware store tomorrow and start installing.

 

[hpw]

if u can cut it tight enough, friction fit, wouldn't seem you would have to attach it........

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_4w6gasor8y_b

or cut them loose and gap fill with foam in a can holding long enough for foam to set up

 

[Dragfluid]

I wanted to ask you guys how did you install the foam? I was looking at 3" drywall screws with maybe the largest fender washers I could find? Not sure if I can get a big enough washer though to spread the weight of the board.
Being that they are 2" thick they should be a little more stable though too.
Looking for an option I can pick up at Lowe's or a hardware store tomorrow and start installing.

"Cap nails"
Look 'em up on HD or Menards site.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I used plastic cap nails on the thinner foam board I had put up. I'm not sure how long you can get them though.

 

[Dragfluid]

3" here.
http://www.menards.com/main/tools-h...441848574-c-8768.htm?tid=-5877604726260909105
They also have 2 1/2"