Foam & Fiberglass?
- Thread starter ShckByte
- Start date
The TANK & SEAT section of DOTHETON has tons of info on foam and fiberglass.
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=35375.0
You can use either latex paint, tape, aluminum foil or bondo to cover/protect/strengthen the foam. Just make sure you use a release agent before you apply the fiberglass.
http://www.uscomposites.com/moldrelease.html
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=35375.0
You can use either latex paint, tape, aluminum foil or bondo to cover/protect/strengthen the foam. Just make sure you use a release agent before you apply the fiberglass.
http://www.uscomposites.com/moldrelease.html
What are you making?
WakonTonka
Well-known member
Please post some photos of your progress on the custom console.
When you start the fiberglass work: Measure your resin to hardener carefully, save the (throw away) mixing cup to check on the cure. Better to know sooner that a layup has not cured fully.....
When you start the fiberglass work: Measure your resin to hardener carefully, save the (throw away) mixing cup to check on the cure. Better to know sooner that a layup has not cured fully.....
HandsomeDan
Well-known member
Dubio
Member
I started a console for my 1973 Duster several years ago! I just recently upholstered it along with a door panel.
rsanter
Well-known member
It has been years since I have done any of this stuff, but there are two ways I know of to approach it
1 you can make it using foam in place and shape it how you want to, a little fiberglass and resin to holt it all together and then you bondo it up to the final shape you want.
You then use that pattern to make a mold from but applying formingnthe fiberglass mold on the form you just made. Use the mold to create the actual console you will be using.
Advantages......
The final product has a nice finish to the point that you can us a colored gelcoat and it can me a finished colored part as it comesmout of the mold.
You can use the mold over and over again to make a bunch of them if you wanted
Disadvantages....
You need to be sure you can get it out of the mold, so a less complex shape
More steps in the process
Method 2
shape the foam as you want but be surenyou make it a little undersized. Apply your fiberglass and resin in several coats and be sure to make it as smooth and flat as you can get it.
When everything sets up you can dig out the foam, sand and fill the outer surface and then you have the final product right there.
Advantages.....
This method will allow more complex shapes that the above method where you hace to worry about getting it out of the mold.
This method is quicker
Works good especially if you plan to cover it in foam and upholstery.
Can be done in place like forming a big dash and console in a car where it will remain in place bonded to the car and you just dig the foam out from behind it
Disadvantage...
One shot deal and then you start again
Can be a lot more finish work depending on how it it shaped and how good at fiberglassing you are
It may be hard to judge how undersized you need to make it
1 you can make it using foam in place and shape it how you want to, a little fiberglass and resin to holt it all together and then you bondo it up to the final shape you want.
You then use that pattern to make a mold from but applying formingnthe fiberglass mold on the form you just made. Use the mold to create the actual console you will be using.
Advantages......
The final product has a nice finish to the point that you can us a colored gelcoat and it can me a finished colored part as it comesmout of the mold.
You can use the mold over and over again to make a bunch of them if you wanted
Disadvantages....
You need to be sure you can get it out of the mold, so a less complex shape
More steps in the process
Method 2
shape the foam as you want but be surenyou make it a little undersized. Apply your fiberglass and resin in several coats and be sure to make it as smooth and flat as you can get it.
When everything sets up you can dig out the foam, sand and fill the outer surface and then you have the final product right there.
Advantages.....
This method will allow more complex shapes that the above method where you hace to worry about getting it out of the mold.
This method is quicker
Works good especially if you plan to cover it in foam and upholstery.
Can be done in place like forming a big dash and console in a car where it will remain in place bonded to the car and you just dig the foam out from behind it
Disadvantage...
One shot deal and then you start again
Can be a lot more finish work depending on how it it shaped and how good at fiberglassing you are
It may be hard to judge how undersized you need to make it
Tribalvision
Well-known member
Do not use Fiberglass Resin right over the Foam, it will melt and distort. Shape your foam and use duct tape over the foam to protect it from the resin. mix the first batch of resin a little HOT so the resin doesnt have a chance to seep thru the tape then you can add layers to it after the initial hot layer.
http://www.tribalvisiontruck.com/console.htm
http://www.tribalvisiontruck.com/console.htm
WakonTonka
Well-known member
Well, yes & no. There are millions of surfboards and homebuilt aircraft that have fiberglass directly on the foam. I built a Rutan Long-EZ aircraft using this technique.
Bottom line: it depends both on what type of foam and what type of resin (I like epoxy resin, which does not melt the foam). Additionally, the polyester resins (usually less $$) have a highly reactive activator that you absolutely cannot get into your eyes, it can literally melt your eyeball, as well as some foams.
There are many types of foam, and several densities. Check out:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/foam.html. for a good primer on these materials
Guster
Well-known member
Depends on the foam and the resin. Epoxy resin is a little more expensive but doesn't eat any of the foams and has a long potlife depending on the hardener being used. Polyester resin is usually the cheap nasty smelly stuff you find at most suppliers and will dissolve styrene based foams. Avoid contact with the MEKP based catalyst too - the stuff in the little dripper bottle - nasty nasty stuff.
If doing a one-of the simplest is often to make a foam+wood shape and reinforce it with fibreglass and resin. Chopstrand mat is often used as it is easier to drape and mold into complex shapes and has excellent impact resistance however looks messy and can leave a non uniform surface that requires a lot of filling, fairing and sanding. Standard weave is a lot more uniform in appearance but will not form into complex shapes without cutting or pleating in areas that may also need exta attention to reinforce ie corners etc. that are prone to damage or cracking. Also consider a very fine weave or even something simple as cheap 100% cotton cloth as the final layer to assist with the finish.
Most important with most composite jobs is preparation. Get your final shape dead right and smooth. Any surface imperfections at this stage will show in the final object and filling/sanding is messy often avoidable. Final layup with reinforcement will add a little in size and additional plug molds are necesary where size is critical. Cut all the dry stuff before you mix the resin and do a dry run if you have to. Once things get sticky you are on the clock before the resin starts to gel and you don't want to get sticky prints on all your tools because you forgot something.
If using epoxy, work in small batches or pour it into a large flat container to help reduce the chances of an exothermic reaction. Especially if you have added a filler or thickener. Even more so on a hot humid day. When using epoxy also be aware that an atmospheric cure will form an amine blush which is a waxy residue on the surface that should be washed or sanded off before doing any more laminating or painting. Polyester resin hotcoats have styrene wax added to assist with the cure which will also needed to be washed off prior to painting.
It is advised to wear gloves and work in a well ventilated space and wear a respirator if you plan on doing this often as you can develop chemical sensitivity, even from epoxy resin. Take care if you have to sand your final product for any reason. Wear a good mask and eye protection and a tyvek suit helps avoid fibreglass itch. Wet sanding is another good option if you have the gear to do it. You will be dripping and droping resin so if you prize your floor you may want to work over a drop cloth. Some plastics will not bond to some resins ie. polyethylene sheet is great for doing epoxy work on, can be used for a mold surface or even for draping over a flat surface to assist with the final finish.
Alternatively Youtube has a ton of instructional and demonstration material on pretty much all aspects of composite construction.
If doing a one-of the simplest is often to make a foam+wood shape and reinforce it with fibreglass and resin. Chopstrand mat is often used as it is easier to drape and mold into complex shapes and has excellent impact resistance however looks messy and can leave a non uniform surface that requires a lot of filling, fairing and sanding. Standard weave is a lot more uniform in appearance but will not form into complex shapes without cutting or pleating in areas that may also need exta attention to reinforce ie corners etc. that are prone to damage or cracking. Also consider a very fine weave or even something simple as cheap 100% cotton cloth as the final layer to assist with the finish.
Most important with most composite jobs is preparation. Get your final shape dead right and smooth. Any surface imperfections at this stage will show in the final object and filling/sanding is messy often avoidable. Final layup with reinforcement will add a little in size and additional plug molds are necesary where size is critical. Cut all the dry stuff before you mix the resin and do a dry run if you have to. Once things get sticky you are on the clock before the resin starts to gel and you don't want to get sticky prints on all your tools because you forgot something.
If using epoxy, work in small batches or pour it into a large flat container to help reduce the chances of an exothermic reaction. Especially if you have added a filler or thickener. Even more so on a hot humid day. When using epoxy also be aware that an atmospheric cure will form an amine blush which is a waxy residue on the surface that should be washed or sanded off before doing any more laminating or painting. Polyester resin hotcoats have styrene wax added to assist with the cure which will also needed to be washed off prior to painting.
It is advised to wear gloves and work in a well ventilated space and wear a respirator if you plan on doing this often as you can develop chemical sensitivity, even from epoxy resin. Take care if you have to sand your final product for any reason. Wear a good mask and eye protection and a tyvek suit helps avoid fibreglass itch. Wet sanding is another good option if you have the gear to do it. You will be dripping and droping resin so if you prize your floor you may want to work over a drop cloth. Some plastics will not bond to some resins ie. polyethylene sheet is great for doing epoxy work on, can be used for a mold surface or even for draping over a flat surface to assist with the final finish.
Alternatively Youtube has a ton of instructional and demonstration material on pretty much all aspects of composite construction.
Last edited:
machine_punk
Well-known member
I don't have any actual experience, but I used to think it would be neat to build your own custom cooler this way (of course, now, I would make riveted aluminum and fill it with spray foam).
M_P
M_P
WakonTonka
Well-known member
Guster, that was a nice survey of the process, good info there folks
Guster
Well-known member
I could go on about release agents, structural bonding, vacuum bagging basics or even resin infusion transfer. Then I realised I started writing a book and mostly people just want simple answers and not 2 page replies that go into depth about techniques used in the industry. :O)
Guster
Well-known member
You mean a composite cooler with padded seat on the lid, integrated 12v peltier cooler module and 9" pneumatic alloy hub wheels? There is one of those painted pearl white with plasma blue flames around the wheel arches. The options are endless...
machine_punk
Well-known member
You mean a composite cooler with padded seat on the lid, integrated 12v peltier cooler module and 9" pneumatic alloy hub wheels? There is one of those painted pearl white with plasma blue flames around the wheel arches. The options are endless...
Yep...that's the very one I was talking about! Regular plastic coolers at the store are cheap, but they aren't very original. For being 'coolers,' they aren't very 'cool.'
M_P
Sidekick
Well-known member
Sidekick
Well-known member
Big-Foot
Well-known member
I've done a fair bit of construction using epoxy based resins over both open and closed cell foam. I used West Systems resins and catalyst. Not cheap, but darned good. The molds that I used were hand formed and discarded after use as they get destroyed when pulling them apart.
CAOS
Well-known member
Fiberglass forums.com