Fogged Thermal Windows

[justsam]

The windows in my home are about 18 years old. The brand was BetterBilt which was acquired by Milgard. I bought the home from the contractor/builder, however he did live in the home for about 4 years after building it. Milgard will not replace failed window seals under warranty since I was not the original occupant. I get it but thought I would take a run at getting it done under warranty.

Bottom line is I have not had an estimate at replacing about 10 windows and one sliding door. I know there is a repair process of evacuating the moisture and then resealing but hear it is a hit or miss operation, and only real fix is replacement. Anyone have real world experience with the repair method? At best I will be in this home another 5 years so do not need a 20 year fix, but do want it to look right.

 

[wssix99]

We are in modern times now. Just pop out the glass and take it to a glass company. They should be able to service thermal panes.

Since the house is 18 years old, its unlikely the glass is any type of exotic low E glass or anything like that.

 

[e015475]

A few years ago i replaced several windows that had failed the seal and would fog up. A local glass company came out, measured the window and replaced the dual pane window and at a significantly lower price than a new window.

I didn't have to take it to a glass company - they came out and measured it, and when the new one was done they just came back and replaced it.

The place I'm in now has about 10 windows where the seal has failed and the manufacturer is no longer in business. The plan is to get some bids from local glass companies to replace them all in one go. I figure if I don't they'll end up on the BINSR report when I'm ready to sell the house.

 

[The Cobbler]

pretty much any glass place should be able to quote you replacement units . it's not rocket science
some places may try to sell you complete new windows... move on if that's what they try .

 

[AC-WC]

Like others said, just call your local glass supplier, have them measure, quote and replace. My bedroom windows (6) had lost all their seal, $900 later they were replaced but way cheaper than full frame and glass replacements. My Pellas were over 20 yrs old.

 

[mhejl]

The brand was BetterBilt which was acquired by Milgard.

Thanks for that. I custom-speced BeterBilt windows when we built in 1995 and was aware they were gone but not who acquired them.

Upgraded Low-E, Argon, thermal break (aluminum was in at the time, not PVC) and a "swiggle seal" or some such. About 2-3x the cost of builder-grade at the time. IIRC, lifetime warranty against leaks.

Not one has leaked yet but good to know where I may get warranty service now.

All the other builder-grade windows in houses around me have problems, many completely replaced now.

 

[240sxguy]

I have thermal pane windows in my house with a date stamp of 1969, oldest I have ever seen. The quote to replace glass was very reasonable, however I'm having trouble figuring out the weatherstrip for the pane that cranks out. if I can't get a good airseal then I'm kinda stuck. The glass replacement was reasonable, and almost cheap compared to a replacement, but this is a pretty big window at about 7x7 feet. The glass panes are pretty big so I had them include installation, as I have ehrm... broken a window before.

 

[jar944]

DG/IG only has a average lifespan of 10-20 years. I'm surprised they even had any warranty at 18. Just call a glass company and get new glass.

 

[My Old Tools]

Just had the glass guys out to quote replacing a bunch of IGUs with Low E units. We want to get rid of the internal grids. The windows are aluminum, but still work well. New windows will never pay off. Its not that hard to remove the stops, use a heat gun to loosen the glue, and pop them out.

 

[PoorUB]

Many years ago I replaced the thermopane in my picture window. I opened up the widow enough to get the glass size, called the local glass shop and they built a new thermopane and delivered it to my home. My neighbor helped replace it.

I smaller window I would just take out the glass and measure it, then order it, pick up up and replace it on my own. Most window sashes have some method of removing the glass, some don't!

 

[justsam]

Thanks to all the folks that responded here! This type of work is way outside my wheel house, and I was thinking the entire window and frame would need to be replaced. After getting the sage counsel here, I contacted a local glass shop and got a rough quote to replace a patio slider (vinyl) that measures 34" by 90". Ball park estimate was $600 for glass. $150 for labor. Increase $200 if low E, which I do not believe it is. I am in the Petaluma California area.

 

[PoorUB]

Thanks to all the folks that responded here! This type of work is way outside my wheel house, and I was thinking the entire window and frame would need to be replaced. After getting the sage counsel here, I contacted a local glass shop and got a rough quote to replace a patio slider (vinyl) that measures 34" by 90". Ball park estimate was $600 for glass. $150 for labor. Increase $200 if low E, which I do not believe it is. I am in the Petaluma California area.

That seems reasonable to me, considering the location. Certainly way less money that replacing the complete door and frame.

My bet is they will show up with two guys and be done in 20 minutes!

 

[Dave Carney]

I have Milgard fiberglass windows that are about 20 years old now. I'm the original owner so the fogged glass units do get replaced under the lifetime warranty, but it is painfully slow. You can grow a human from an egg into a baby in about the same time as it takes them to make and install a new igu in this area. That's best case, assuming you have the holy grail "Sales Order Number" for the unit. If you don't have that number then you are in for double the amount of time as they will want to have a tech measure first.

As a consequence of their slowness, there is hardly ever a time when I haven't got at least one fogged window somewhere waiting it's turn.

Milgard was acquired by MI Windows a couple of years ago but if anything the warranty service has only gotten slower. (The techs have to drive from Kansas City to do the work here in the Wichita area.) But, it's still free and most of the time they make the new unit right the first time, so there's that.

 

[mhejl]

All the other builder-grade windows in houses around me have problems, many completely replaced now.

Sorry to quote myself but reminded me:

Do other areas have door-to-door window replacement poachers/salesmen when the neighborhood hits the age where all the builder-grade windows begin to fog up?

Similar happens with roofers when we get even a hint of hail around here (which is too often).

 

[Joe Reed]

My house is 20 years old and has the cheap builder grade windows. I had a local glass company replace 2 34"x28 1/4"x7/16" insulated panels on a second story window in 2020. The total cost was $550. The problem I had was that the local company no longer makes the 7/16" thick panels....1/2" is the thinnest,, so they had to source the panels from out of state.

In 2015 I had 2 34"x34 1/4"x7/16" panels, 2 34"x281/4"x7/16" panels, and one 29 7/8"x16 1/4"x7/16" panel replace by the same company for $675. So....the cost of those 5 panels (and labor) was only $75 more than the more recent cost of two.

I realize that there is 5 years between the invoices - and the most recent one was during the pandemic, but I believe the biggest factor was the fact that the 7/16" panels were difficult to source.....and they may even be non-existent now. I have two panels now that need replacing. I've searched online to see if I could just purchase the panels somewhere and install them myself (it isn't brain surgery - and the ones that need replacing now are on the front porch and easy to reach). I've been unable to locate any source for those.

Anyone know a source for 7/16" panels? I'm actually thinking about buying a commonly available 1/2" panel and seeing how that might work. I think it would work ok on the upper sash since having it sit 1/16" proud of the sash wouldn't interfere with anything. I've not looked closely enough at the lower sash to see if that 1/6" might be an issue. We never open those windows but I don't want to be the guy that creates a problem for any future owners....and don't want a problem should I decide to sell the house...

 

[Zeke]

You should believe in LowE. It works in filtering out UV and can help with radiated heat. I installed literally well over 1000 Milgard windows and doors when the company was owned by Gary Milgard. The IGU's are mounted with a 2-sided tape that can be tough to get to release and clean up. You can't use too much heat or you'll melt the frame. The stops just snap in from the inside, so you have to use a long blade from the outside.

Theoretically you could purge them with nitrogen but you still need to remove the glass. One reason they fog is that there is a small equalizer or capillary tube. If you made a window at sea level and took it to a house at a pretty high elevation, w/o the tube they would bow out considerably. And they are not supposed to be used with argon as it leaks out.

I think it leaks out anyway.

The spacer between the bonded glass pair is full of desiccant. Eventually the desiccant can't absorb any more moisture.

An IGU act as a bellows pump over the course of temp changes. This is the flaw. If capillary tubes are present the installers are supposed to close or pinch them. Well, you can't really get to them so they never do.

 

[justsam]

Just a follow up here. I had the glass in the sliding door replaced. It turned out it was low e so the price of the gas alone was about $1000. I had a smaller window about 30" square and he fixed that too for the price of the glass itself, which was also low e. As others pointed out, one man did the job, took less than an hour. I did have him measure some others that are fogged but in seldom used rooms. Owner ordered the glass with no upfront money from me, installer was early! I believe I have found my "go to" window guy!

 

[cjarvis]

Glass has gotten outrageous. I had to replace an IG unit in a kitchen window in October. $128 for a 25x27 glass unit, plain glass, air filled.

 

[My Old Tools]

I got two quotes in the last month to replace the glass in my double hung windows plus some arched top transom windows (fixed). 38 pieces of glass total, double pane, Low E. We wanted to get rid of the internal dividers primarily, and some were fogging. One quote was $6800 and the other was $9940. Same work, same materials. The low bidder does a lot of big commercial jobs, store fronts, etc, along with residential. They said in and out in one day as soon as the glass shows up, about 2 weeks. They both bid replacement windows as well. 12 double hung windows, quote for aluminum (which we have) was $21,000. For fiberglass, not a real quote because it takes months for a real quote, but the factory sales guy said "in excess of $30,000".