For brazing - Oxy/Ace or Air/Ace?

[crabjoe]

My friends in the HVAC business tell me to just get an Air Acetylene torch and recommends for me to get a Turbo torch vs a Oxy Acetylene torch.. When I read various HVAC boards, most seem to recommend the Oxy/Acetylene setup. When I say this to friends, they tell me that I have to be super careful with oxy setup to not burn holes and the air ace is all I need...

So what would be better? Is the Oxy setup really that much harder to use, or should I just get the Air Acetylene setup, like they use?

Thanks for the advice!!

 

[Rockhead261]

Oxy is for cutting. TurboTorch is more than enough for brazing.

 

[Slowgsr]

Oxy/acetylene does get hot.

When you say brazing, you mean silver soldering ? Anyways that's what I called it when I did the ac at my parents place. First and only time, my small air/acetylene torch (yellow bottle for soldering copper) wouldn't get the large line hot enough on the windy day I was doing it so I pulled out my torches from the shop.

I'd get a small set of oxy/acetylene, they're handy just to have around

 

[SEV22XS]

Hard to argue with thousands of HVAC techs all they use is a turbo torch for HVAC work. What kind of work are you doing ? Light residential stuff or heavy commercial big line sets ?

 

[crabjoe]

It's just for residential, but I was thinking an Oxy setup would be handier to have around the house... but if I just end up burning holes in copper, when brazing ac lines, I'd be better off with an air acetylene setup..

Is using the Oxy setup really that much harder? My buddy that's a welder says Oxy's easy to use and since you can braze with it, he wouldn't bother with an air setup... But he's been welding for decades...

 

[wbrett102701]

Depends what size you are brazing, I personally would rather oxy acly
Simply because I just have to change the tip, and now it's a cutting torch,
Problem people don't like them is because they run out quick, 2 bottles instead of 1

The air acly is very loud
Also the air acly give a larger flame, so if you would be working in very tight areas and need to adjust your flame, get a oxy acyl

Hope this helps


Brett.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I just learned to braze with my oxy acetylene setup, it was an Al cooling line on my Ranger. I practiced on an old Al shovel, and you can burn through Al REAL quick with oxy acetylene, but I learned in about 20 min. That said, I would rather have too much heat than too little, and the acetylene is super easy to learn... go big!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Go to a plumbing or hvac supply house and get a good turbo torch,not a box store torch.

 

[crabjoe]

Go to a plumbing or hvac supply house and get a good turbo torch,not a box store torch.

You're saying Turbo Torch as a generic term, or are you saying get the real deal Victor Turbo torch or something similar like this?

I'm really leaning towards an oxy/ace setup... even though I hate the idea of having to keep 2 bottles... because I'm liking the idea of a small flame... But the idea of burning holes is driving me a bit nutz! lol

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Turbo torch extreme is the common one sold at johnstone supply,screws on top of a map gas bottle like the pedestrian grade version sold at box store but works much better.
I have an extreme some place in my van,Ive also got a lennox version I bought at ferguson that I use for 3-4" copper.
I used to have one of those B-tank torches like in your picture,gave it away years ago .
Ive got 1 of those "kangaroo pack" acetylene torches someplace that I use for cutting stuff when I'm in a hurry,but I rarely use it for brazing/hard soldering.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Heres a turbo torch extreme,Ill see if I can find a picture of a lennox like the one I use.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Heres the lenox version,I like it better than the extreme.

 

[Showkey]

I just learned to braze with my oxy acetylene setup, it was an Al cooling line on my Ranger. I practiced on an old Al shovel, and you can burn through Al REAL quick with oxy acetylene, but I learned in about 20 min. That said, I would rather have too much heat than too little, and the acetylene is super easy to learn... go big!

Working with AL is a whole different process and skill set.......than brazing steel or copper.

 

[Jackfre]

Depends upon what you are doing. You say it is "just residential" and therefore the "Turbo Torch" will likely do 95% of what you run into. If you are looking to do some "welding" on heavier material you will do better with the OA rig. I do not like the self igniting torches some have shown in previous posts. You have much less attitude in positioning the torch with them. I prefer to carry a striker and have a bit more compact torch.

 

[DekeT]

Go to a plumbing or hvac supply house and get a good turbo torch,not a box store torch.

Very good advice. The difference in reliability/quality is worth at least twice the price over a box store tool.

 

[DekeT]

As far as which setup to have the answer is easy - both. Each have their place. I use an air torch to solder and oxy/acet to braze. The choice for me is how much heat I need to make the joint for the application.

 

[crabjoe]

Heres a turbo torch extreme,Ill see if I can find a picture of a lennox like the one I use.

That and the Lennox one you posted looks like a propane torch you get at Wally World. What kind of cylinders do they sit on top of? Are they throw away cylinders like the little propane and mapp gas cylinders?

The Victor Turbo torches my buddies have look like the generic thing I posted and they either have them connected to a B or MC tank with a 12 ft hose.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

That and the Lennox one you posted looks like a propane torch you get at Wally World. What kind of cylinders do they sit on top of? Are they throw away cylinders like the little propane and mapp gas cylinders?

The Victor Turbo torches my buddies have look like the generic thing I posted and they either have them connected to a B or MC tank with a 12 ft hose.

They screw on top of a bottle of map gas,those 2 torches work a lot better than the wally world versions you buy.
I think I paid around $100.00 for each of mine.
And yes you can stand them on there head or flat on their back and they still work just the same unlike what somebody previously posted.

 

[404]

Get oxy propane. Can cut, braze, heat. Just not gas weld. The ace is the expensive part. Oxy is pretty reasonable.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Google Acetylene truck explosion and heed the warnings that come from that. Make sure you turn the tank off each time you use the torch. Check for leaks in hoses/regulator and tank valve stem seals. I used the air/acetylene turbo torch sets for 20 years doing service calls on refigs and window unit air conditioners. It was plenty of heat but not to much like you can get with the acet/oxy units. About 4300 degrees for air/acet versus 6300 for oxy/acety and yet they can melt the end of the fittings you are trying to silver solder. Nobody else mentioned the explosion factor but there have been some big explosions from tanks leaking and filling the inside of service trucks, even filling the inside of door panels and set off with remote entry keyfobs.

 

[monkeyspanners]

This is what i use,

though i have three mapp air torches too for smaller pipes, they make double and tripple burner ones for bigger jobs.

 

[joel63]

You're saying Turbo Torch as a generic term, or are you saying get the real deal Victor Turbo torch or something similar like this?

I'm really leaning towards an oxy/ace setup... even though I hate the idea of having to keep 2 bottles... because I'm liking the idea of a small flame... But the idea of burning holes is driving me a bit nutz! lol

For HVAC work this set up (Turbo Torch or the Victor T/T) will serve your needs more than adequately. Been using it for over 25 years.

 

[crabjoe]

They screw on top of a bottle of map gas,those 2 torches work a lot better than the wally world versions you buy.
I think I paid around $100.00 for each of mine.
And yes you can stand them on there head or flat on their back and they still work just the same unlike what somebody previously posted.

I've got the Bernzo version for Mapp gas, that I use for plumbing.. It's nice enough for plumbing, but I don't think it's going to be enough heat for brazing.

I think I'm going to go with the Coplay-Norstar Air Acetylene torch kit. It's way cheaper than the Victor Turbo Torch, when you consider all the tips and it looks to be a knock off ... So I'm hoping it performs the same...

Thanks all!

 

[Project 2501]

Depends on what size pipe. We braze 6 inch type k with sil-fos and theres no way it can be done with a B tank and turbo torch. It's even somewhat difficult to get steady flow with an oxy/acetylene rig because of the fittings cooling off too fast. But for standard DX lines from 3/8" to I dont know.. the 1" ish area.. A b tank with acetylene will do the trick.

 

[justinjoyal]

We use the turbotorch for lines 1/4 to 5/8 but over that we use the oxy/ace most of the time. On a windy/cold day the turbotorch can struggle.

 

[Jim greengo]

Depends on what size pipe. We braze 6 inch type k with sil-fos and theres no way it can be done with a B tank and turbo torch. It's even somewhat difficult to get steady flow with an oxy/acetylene rig because of the fittings cooling off too fast. But for standard DX lines from 3/8" to I dont know.. the 1" ish area.. A b tank with acetylene will do the trick.

I've done plenty of 4" dwv and 2" L and K copper with my Lennox turbo torch/mapp gas and staybrite 8 over the years.

 

[Raisedonadeere]

I've done plenty of 4" dwv and 2" L and K copper with my Lennox turbo torch/mapp gas and staybrite 8 over the years.

Are you getting this performance with the new mapp gas? There are quite a few people using the old mapp gas which is hotter than currently available, who either had large tanks on hand or found a soure.

 

[lilredex]

Get an O/A set up and get a "OOO" tip for silver soldering. You can turn down the heat further by adjusting for a a carburizing flame...long blue cone, if a neutral flame is still too hot. That is what we used for leading (auto body work) way back when.

You'll then have the heat when you need to braze or weld something later on.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...gws-wiz.......0i71j0i67j0i10i67j0.cBYjkiS88sk

My set up...

 

[Jim greengo]

Are you getting this performance with the new mapp gas? There are quite a few people using the old mapp gas which is hotter than currently available, who either had large tanks on hand or found a soure.

I did some just the other day,the torch is a big part of it.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You're saying Turbo Torch as a generic term, or are you saying get the real deal Victor Turbo torch or something similar like this?

I'm really leaning towards an oxy/ace setup... even though I hate the idea of having to keep 2 bottles... because I'm liking the idea of a small flame... But the idea of burning holes is driving me a bit nutz! lol

The above kit is overkill, but the Victor setup is the deal. Get a kit with an A5 and A14 tips and be done with it.

Tommy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Get an O/A set up and get a "OOO" tip for silver soldering. You can turn down the heat further by adjusting for a a carburizing flame...long blue cone, if a neutral flame is still too hot.

A curburizing flame is the WORST possible choice for HVAC. You always want a neutral flame for HVAC & reefer lines.

Tommy

 

[lilredex]

A curburizing flame is the WORST possible choice for HVAC. You always want a neutral flame for HVAC & reefer lines.

Tommy

Good to point that out. There is no refrigeration work in my foreseeable future.

Have silver soldered and brazed many small pieces with that "000" tip without having to resort to anything other than a neutral flame. It has an excellent flame range, from a birthday candle size to much larger. They are not usually included in sets, but are very useful for the DIYer.

 

[59 wagon man]

You're saying Turbo Torch as a generic term, or are you saying get the real deal Victor Turbo torch or something similar like this?

I'm really leaning towards an oxy/ace setup... even though I hate the idea of having to keep 2 bottles... because I'm liking the idea of a small flame... But the idea of burning holes is driving me a bit nutz! lol

I have brazed 4" copper with 2 of those big tips connected to I think it was 100lb bottles with the proper adapter . the little mapp gas torches aren't the same .with the proper tip and a b tank it is the way to go for cost and usefulness on brazing and soldering. only downside to oxy/act is no cutting with turbotorch

 

[nsula_country]

I perfer O/A over Mapp+ and A/A.

I use a 00 tip on everything from 1/4" to 1 1/8" copper. Just walk really, really, really fast. Have NEVER burned a hole in a copper pipe. Get in, get hot, lay silphos, get off, wet rag cool.

The fine point flame of O/A is much easier to keep heat creep down. Copper will transfer heat very fast. Always remove schrader core and wrap with a wet rag when connecting to service valves, coils and TXVs.

CT