For Electricians or in the know-

[bucs012]

O.K. I found out about my outlet in the garage. It is 220 with a 4 prong dryer type of outlet like this one (right side picture) http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4674123/93149-main_Full.jpg

I received my new Dayton heater from greenhousemegastore. Here it is
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/Portable-Electric-Heater-208V/productinfo/HT-2001/

As you can see, my heater has a totally different 3 prong, 30 amp plug on it. The wires are 2 black ones, a white one and then a green ground. I want to KEEP my current 4 prong outlet in my garage wall! SO.......I need to wire up a new 4 prong wire and plug to my HEATER. I went to Home Depot and have the 4 wire plug and wires.

1. I assume I can run this heater on this 220, with a 4 prong plug. Right?

2. Can you tell me which of the wires from my new 4 prong dryer plug (white, black, green and red) go WHERE on the heater when I remove the current wires with the 3 prong plug from the heater?

My electrician won't be able to get over here for a week and I would like to do this myself. To me it does not seem that big of deal........just need to know where to hook up the new wires on my heater.

Thanks,

 

[bucs012]

I went out and took pictures too

This is the outlet on my wall- 220

This is the plug on my heater

These are the current wires going into the heater. Crapy shot but....They are white, 2 blacks and a green.

This is my new, 4 prong wire plug (black, white, green and red wire) I need to put on my new heater so it will plug into the wall.

 

[nate379]

Only difference between a 3 prong and a 4 prong is the 3 prong has ground and neutral bonded and the 4 prong is separate.

 

[pattenp]

The white on the four prong is a neutral and is not needed by the heater. The heater should only be using the red and black for the two hots and the green for ground.

 

[pattenp]

Red and Black plug to Black and Black heater (doesn't matter which one to which), green to green, white to white.

 

[mrb]

the (upside down) receptacle on the wall is a NEMA 14-30 which is two hots a neutral and a ground, 30 amps 250v.

the plug on the heater is a NEMA 6-30 which is two hots and a ground.

If it were me, I would make a pigtail adapter with a 14-30 male and 6-30 female connecting only the two hots and the ground. This way you arent replacing the receptacle in the wall or changing the cord on the heater and invalidating its ul listing.

 

[mrb]

Only difference between a 3 prong and a 4 prong is the 3 prong has ground and neutral bonded and the 4 prong is separate.

not exactly. there are two different types (in this context) of 3 prong 30 amp receptacles. There is the old style dryer receptacle which is two hots and a neutral (no ground). The neutral was bonded to the chassis of the dryer. This was banned quite some time ago.

Then there is the 6-30 recetpacle which is what his heater requires. This has two hots and a ground, no neutral.

 

[bucs012]

Red and Black plug to Black and Black heater (doesn't matter which one to which), green to green, white to white.

OK- To make sure I understand. the red wire from the new plug can hook to one spot where a current black wire is on the heater. Then put the black wire from new plug goes to other black wire spot. Green wire from new plug goes to screw on case where current green wire is and the new white wire on new plug goes to where current white wire is?

Sorry. Just making sure I don't do something wrong.

 

[bucs012]

the (upside down) receptacle on the wall is a NEMA 14-30 which is two hots a neutral and a ground, 30 amps 250v.

If it were me, I would make a pigtail adapter with a 14-30 male and 6-30 female connecting only the two hots and the ground. This way you arent replacing the receptacle in the wall or changing the cord on the heater and invalidating its ul listing.

Not sure why my electrician mounted it upside down.......He also did it on the other outlet on the other side of the garage with 220....All the other outlets he did have hte ground pole on bottom like in my house.

How would I make this pigtail adapter you speak of? Is that easier than just rewiring the wires?

 

[nate379]

Sorry, none of those pics were loaded when I posted so I didn't see the plugs. Not allowed in new construction, but common to see on old stuff still.

not exactly. there are two different types (in this context) of 3 prong 30 amp receptacles. There is the old style dryer receptacle which is two hots and a neutral (no ground). The neutral was bonded to the chassis of the dryer. This was banned quite some time ago.

Then there is the 6-30 receptacle which is what his heater requires. This has two hots and a ground, no neutral.

 

[nate379]

Why does that matter?

invalidating its ul listing.

 

[mrb]

How would I make this pigtail adapter you speak of? Is that easier than just rewiring the wires?

Sort of. You just need a 6-30 inline receptacle like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350277246031 and install it on the end of that 14-30 cord you have leaving the neutral disconnected and insulated.

 

[mrb]

Sorry, none of those pics were loaded when I posted so I didn't see the plugs. Not allowed in new construction, but common to see on old stuff still.

youre right, very, very common. I just wanted to clarify so no one thinks the neutral and ground should be bonded at the receptacle.

As far as invalidating the UL listing, some people care, some dont. I prefer to not modify appliances like this and make whatever adaptor is needed.

 

[bucs012]

Red and Black plug to Black and Black heater (doesn't matter which one to which), green to green, white to white.

So we are all in agreement? I want to be alive to continue to talk to you guys.

 

[MrMark]

the (upside down) receptacle on the wall is a NEMA 14-30 which is two hots a neutral and a ground, 30 amps 250v.

the plug on the heater is a NEMA 6-30 which is two hots and a ground.

If it were me, I would make a pigtail adapter with a 14-30 male and 6-30 female connecting only the two hots and the ground. This way you arent replacing the receptacle in the wall or changing the cord on the heater and invalidating its ul listing.

This is exactly what I plan to do. I put in a 50 amp general purpose 120/240 circuit and receptical (120/240 50 amp) without knowing what the future would bring and that I would likely in the future have more than 1 thing I would want to be able to plug in to this outlet. Thus, I will have to make pigtail adapters or whip cords for whatever devices I come to own. I'm glad I installed the receptical right side up.

 

[mrb]

So we are all in agreement? I want to be alive to continue to talk to you guys.

careful.....the cord in the heater is most likely black / white / green. In the 4 wire cord you dont use the white in it.

I would really just spend another $10 at lowes and make the adaptor......

 

[MrMark]

There is some confusion here.

I think mrb means that the ground is supposed to be on top, in contrast to the way plugs are typically installed in houses. In hospitals you will see the ground up. Yours has the ground down, the neutral is up. So, you need to get that straighted out in your head to rewire this thing. When I did mine, I put the ground up like mrb says is correct.

Second, why does the picture some the heater's factory cord with a three prong plug and 4 wires, two blacks, a white and a green???? What is the white doing there?

 

[mrb]

There is some confusion here.

I think mrb means that the ground is supposed to be on top, in contrast to the way plugs are typically installed in houses. In hospitals you will see the ground up. Yours has the ground down, the neutral is up. So, you need to get that straighted out in your head to rewire this thing. When I did mine, I put the ground up like mrb says is correct.

Second, why does the picture some the heater's factory cord with a three prong plug and 4 wires, two blacks, a white and a green???? What is the white doing there?

yes, his receptacle is upside down. On standard 5-15 and 5-20 (household whether single or duplex) there is no up or down. On things like a 14-30 there is an up and down, usually ground on top. There should be some designation on the yoke of the device. 90% of the plugs that go in these are angle plugs, thats the reason.

Where are you getting that the factory heater cord has two blacks a white and a green?

From looking at the picture of the heater, its clear its 3 wire cord has black, white and green. If the OP were to simply match colors, he would end up with 120v on the heater and nowhere to land the red in his 4 wire cord.

 

[MrMark]

That's what the poster said! And showed a picture that he described as two blacks and a white and a green. Unless I am losing my mind.

He probably was seeing things. I imagine there is a black and a white and they are both 120 phase legs.

He would just hook black and red on his cord to black and white on the heater. Doesn't matter the order. The white on his cord he just cuts off or caps somehow.

I don't like doing that. He should buy a proper 3 wire cord and make a proper adaptor.

 

[MrMark]

OK- To make sure I understand. the red wire from the new plug can hook to one spot where a current black wire is on the heater. Then put the black wire from new plug goes to other black wire spot. Green wire from new plug goes to screw on case where current green wire is and the new white wire on new plug goes to where current white wire is?

Sorry. Just making sure I don't do something wrong.

HE actually said he had 4 wires TWICE.

 

[mrb]

HE actually said he had 4 wires TWICE.

wierd. i was busy looking at the pictures and missed it.....

couple more points for my "just make an adaptor"

 

[MrMark]

there is some mass confusion here and this guy is going to do some damage unless he steps back and takes some study.

the two posts in a row by pattenp don't help matters. This is a 240 volt heater folks, it is not a dual voltage device like a range. It only needs three wires and its plug only has three prongs so if we have four wires coming out of a three prong plug, we have a problem.

 

[Rosco]

there is some mass confusion here and this guy is going to do some damage unless he steps back and takes some study.

the two posts in a row by pattenp don't help matters. This is a 240 volt heater folks, it is not a dual voltage device like a range. It only needs three wires and its plug only has three prongs so if we have four wires coming out of a three prong plug, we have a problem.

I agree. I do not understand the 4-wires with a 3 prong plug thing. That is the plug that came with the heater, so maybe a phone call or a good look at the owners manual.

Seems to me changing the outlet would be easier.

 

[Junkman]

If someone doesn't understand electricity, then they should leave it for someone that does to do the work. If you mess up with electricity, then someone can die, unlike plumbing where you only wind up with water on the floor.

 

[mhm993]

Jeez guys, you're going to get the op crazy here. Pattenp gave the correct answer.

Black to black. Red to black. Green to green. Ignore white.

Pigtail is nice. So is a new plug. So is replacing the socket. All of them could work. None of them will burn down the house. Imho

Nothing else to worry about. Nothing else to see. No need to make him feel like he's going to burn the house down or should rush out and buy life insurance if he wires a plug. No warnings about the mysteries of electrons and their devilish powers. Move along!!

I've had too much coffee this am, I think.

 

[bucs012]

Okay, tonight I will take the unit cover off and take a picture of the ACTUAL wire colors and where they are hooked up. That should help us out too.

When I stated I have 2 black wires that are on the heater now, It SURE looks like I have 2 blacks, 1 white and a green coming out of the end of the wire, going up and into the heater from my current 3 prong on the heater. Maybe I am just seeing things?
I will DOUBLE check this tonight with an anctual picture of the unit OPENED up. Cool?

Sorry for the confusion, but appreciate the help. I like learning this stuff!

 

[79firebird]

On the new cord just cap off the white one as it is unneeded. all you need is the ground and 2 hots. ive wired a fue of these up in the past. i hope you dident pay that price for it there. im allways seeing them on sale for 1/2 that price.

 

[bucs012]

Ding, Ding we have winners. I just talked with my electrician this morning that wired my whole garage for me last fall and was back a few weeks go to put in my G73 heaters........The one that can't make it out for another week, yet to help me with this heater.

He said to run black to black, red to black, green to green and CAP off the white wire with a knurl and some tape. Don't need it.

Also, he has each of my (2) 220 lines on a 30 amp circuit now and said since the heater pulls 23 amps we are OK at 80% of the 30 amp circuit.

 

[bucs012]

i hope you dident pay that price for it there. im allways seeing them on sale for 1/2 that price.

Don't confuse this heater with one of the lower voltage/BTU heaters also made by them, but look the exact same. This was one of the lowest prices I could find on the whole net.......Taxes and delivered to my front door in 24 hours from my order $153.
There was only one place I found it for 148 (a few bucks lower) but I ordered from greenhouse since they have treated me well with my other heaters.

 

[MrMark]

Ding, Ding we have winners. I just talked with my electrician this morning that wired my whole garage for me last fall and was back a few weeks go to put in my G73 heaters........The one that can't make it out for another week, yet to help me with this heater.

He said to run black to black, red to black, green to green and CAP off the white wire with a knurl and some tape. Don't need it.

Also, he has each of my (2) 220 lines on a 30 amp circuit now and said since the heater pulls 23 amps we are OK at 80% of the 30 amp circuit.

Bucs,

You still haven't helped yourself. Did you ask him why you have 4 landing points on your heater? Yeah, of course you are going to cut off the white wire on your cord for 240 V service, but what are you going to put on the lug on the machine where you see that white wire. You have four wires on your heater and you are going to connect the 3 wires on your cord (after cutting off the white)??????????

How??

You should flip that plug around too. It looks amateurish.

 

[bucs012]

Not sure about the white wire spot. Any of you guys know? Why not just leave it alone? All I need is 2 hot wires and a ground on the new hook up.

I will leave the outlet as is........It's a garage and this guy has been a licensed electrician for 30 years. I could care less if it's right side up or upside down.

 

[MrMark]

Not sure about the white wire spot. Any of you guys know? Why not just leave it alone? All I need is 2 hot wires and a ground on the new hook up.

I will leave the outlet as is........It's a garage and this guy has been a licensed electrician for 30 years. I could care less if it's right side up or upside down.

I'm done with this. Good luck.

IMO, you should not be messing with this.

 

[bucs012]

Thanks, Mark.

I will let you know how it goes tonight when I wire her up. My electrician told me to call him after I have the cabinet opened up and current wires exposed to explain to him what wire color is going to where with the current set up. He will guide me over the phone from there.

 

[MrMark]

I'm always amazed at how many people seem to be impressed by so and so has been doing this for X number of years blah, blah, blah. Who cares? I want to know how many of those years you have been doing it right. Show me your work. Show me your knowledge. Years doing something is one factor, but it is just one of many factors that go into evaluating competency. It is kinda a get me through the door kind of thing. Too many stop their evaluation there, however. I have never once in my life told someone how many years I have been doing something to try to impress them or gain credibility.

We just had a union master electrician on here claiming 15 years experience and in 5 states who did not know basic 2008 code on a very important issue and was too lazy to look it up after being challenged on the very issue and then had the audacity to claim he was right, relying on nothing more than his say so, in the face of incontrovertible evidence that he was wrong and then posting smilies taunting the poster who showed him to be incontrovertibly wrong!

 

[bucs012]

I hear ya. Since there have been some nice people on here kind enought to try and help me, I will post back my results after I'm done and ran the heater for a good while and see how it all turns out. I hope to get this done tonight.

Stay tuned and again. Thanks to you guys for offering help.

 

[pattenp]

I would love to know what that white wire is you mentioned in the OP. What threw me a curve was the picture of the three prong plug but you were stating 4 wire connections. Oh by the way... I apologize if I confused the situation.

 

[bucs012]

Hey, no hard feelings from me to anyone! I appreciate you guys trying to help me. I did not know exactly what I had till I got home and opened it up tonight.

Ended with only a white wire, green wire and black wire. There was no 4th black wire.....Actually there was but it was NOT part of the 3 prong plug. Ha! it was just zip tied to them inside the cabinet.

I ended up replacing green with green. Black with black and then where the white wire was, I put the red wire. I left the white wire from my new 4 prong unhooked and will nurl it with electrical tape around it and tuck it inside the rear cabinet and zip tie it so it does not move.

Here are images from my TEST ONLY. I wanted to test the unit before I make my final connections, crimping, zip ties and close up the cabinet. I ran it for 2 hours like this and all was great! I will do my professional crimping and buttoning it all up RIGHT, tomorrow.

This is when I opened it up with original wiring.

This is after I rerouted the wires. I was holding the white wire to show it was not connected but its blurry....You can see the black is where the black was and the red is nw where the white, was. Green still in same spot.