For mechanics: 6 point and 12 point sockets

[guitarbutt]

I'm taking mechanics courses for an impending career change. Not sure exactly what line of work I'll go with but I am accumulating tools for the future and home use. I have non skip sets of 3/8 and 1/2 sockets in metric and standard, shallow and deep 6 points (Tekton). I have some non skip rails of shallow 3/8 and 1/2 in metric and standard (misc brands pieces together). Is it worth having both 6 and 12 in the tool cart for general auto mechanic work? Both deep and shallow in both 3/8 and 1/2sizes? What about in 1/4 drive? Any specific jobs you choose one over the other?

 

[xjfish]

6 point always here in MN (you'll want deep and shallow with no skips), except for 12pt fasteners of course...

 

[Kscardsfan]

I prefer 6 point sockets and wrenches, but I like working on old rusted junk more than anything else. There’s no reason not to have both.

 

[ItsNemo]

It's pretty rare that you come across 12 points unless you're doing actual engine work. I'd keep a couple sets on hand in the different drive sizes but generally tucked away.

 

[General Geoff]

Don't bother with 12 points in 1/4 or 3/8" drive, they're more useful in larger 1/2" sizes.

 

[sweet victory]

Don't bother with 12 points in 1/4 or 3/8" drive, they're more useful in larger 1/2" sizes.

This is pretty much true, with the exception being if you work on anything custom/aftermarket that is using something like ARP 12 point fasteners.

 

[vga]

I have plenty of both but my choice 99 pct of the time will be 6 point.

 

[General Geoff]

This is pretty much true, with the exception being if you work on anything custom/aftermarket that is using something like ARP 12 point fasteners.

every ARP 12 point bolt I've seen is big enough to turn with a 1/2" socket, as those sets usually go down to 10mm or 3/8"

 

[Don1357]

When you are working on an awkward angle where you barely have any space to move, and you need to use a breaker bar with a fixed head you'll thank God all mighty if you have a 12 point. a six point socket can be put in 60-degree increments, a 12 point in 30 degree increments.

I mean you often need two of each size, may as well have them on 6 and 12.

 

[richfinn]

Just buy a good quality 1/4 drive set in 6 point

Combo Wrenches in 12pt

Line wrenches in 6pt

Seeing a few 14mm 12 point spark plugs in Europe now and clutch pressure plate bolts are common (nice to have)

It really depends on what you work on, I gave my inch tools away 15 years ago, metric only nowadays!!!

 

[demarpaint]

When you are working on an awkward angle where you barely have any space to move, and you need to use a breaker bar with a fixed head you'll thank God all mighty if you have a 12 point. a six point socket can be put in 60-degree increments, a 12 point in 30 degree increments.

I mean you often need two of each size, may as well have them on 6 and 12.

I agree, and found myself switching from a 6 point to a 12 point socket more than once when working in a tight space on a car. I have complete sets in both 6 and 12 point metric sockets as a result, with no skipped sizes. You won't always need them, but just like a lot of other times having the right tool for the job when you need it makes life a whole lot easier.

 

[General Geoff]

When you are working on an awkward angle where you barely have any space to move, and you need to use a breaker bar with a fixed head you'll thank God all mighty if you have a 12 point. a six point socket can be put in 60-degree increments, a 12 point in 30 degree increments.

I mean you often need two of each size, may as well have them on 6 and 12.

Modern thin/flex head ratchet mechanisms with pawl strength exceeding the shear strength of the square drive itself have made fixed breaker bars essentially obsolete, IMO.

 

[logical]

Main socket sets in all sizes are 6 point and a decent brand. Since it isn't unusual for a second socket in same size to come in handy, I keep a 12 point set of mixed origin around for that (back left).

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[Mr_B]

1/2" set of shallow 12 point wouldn't hurt, if being fussy3/8 drive worth having too .
don't get used a lot but professional or serious home user going need them occasionally and it not expensive get some 12 point cover with couple mid range taiwan sets or something used off eBay .

 

[Jvvmusme]

12 points sockets for hard to reach nuts in engines

 

[RedneckWelder]

Get 6 points now, get no skip sets and get 12 points down the road. For instance you can probably get away with just a 12 point shallow 3/8 set in metric to accompany a full 6 point set. You can always get more 12 point sets later.

Depending on what you work on your money that would have gone to 12 point may be better served with bit sockets and specialty stuff like E-torx.

Don’t neglect impact sockets too.

 

[ex-x-fire]

Axle nut are sometimes 12 pt. Get the 5-6 piece socket set.

 

[jcbrew]

If you're working on motorcycles, you will need a 10mm 12 point for brake caliper bolts.

 

[Wrenchin95]

Personally I don't buy 12pt sets I just buy the individual ones I need in snap on. But if I didn't also have someone I was able to borrow from I'd probably purchase a half decent quality set. Aside from a few 12 pt axle sockets the only 12pts I own are 9mm, 10mm, 12mm and 9/16.

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[Mechanical Noise]

How cramped is your tool cart? If you HAVE to choose between 6 or 12 point, consider the condition of the fasteners you expect to see. If they're pristine, 12 point is going to be somewhat easier to work with. If they're the sort of rusty **** that I'm used to seeing, there will be times when a 12 point socket will just damage the fastener further.

Ideally, you'll find room for both. Most of the time, one works as well as the other but if you crack or lose track of one, the other will be there, ready to go.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

In almost 100% of cases, there is no advantage to 12 point sockets. IMO 12 point has no place in the cart, unless you carry axle nut sockets in your cart. I do, yet the majority of axle nuts I remove are 6 point, so my 12 point axle nut sockets are in my box.

12 point has its place. On 12 point fasteners, hammering them onto locking lug nuts to remove without the key, minimal clearance situations. And I mean MINIMAL, like an 80 tooth ratchet swinging 1 tooth at a time and you need to keep clocking the socket to line it up.

As an auto tech, your tool purchases need to increase the jobs you can take on, and minimize time/effort to complete jobs. Your extra long zero offset wrenches can have all the 12 point you like. But outside 12 point fasteners, there really isnt a lot of use for them. Same deal with breaker bars, unless you can get a stupid long one. Most commonly available bars are the same length as top brand 1/2 ratchets. The gears of those ratchets are stronger than the drive end. So stick your pipe on the ratchet and enjoy 6 point.

 

[nbpt100]

Modern thin/flex head ratchet mechanisms with pawl strength exceeding the shear strength of the square drive itself have made fixed breaker bars essentially obsolete, IMO.

Sounds good! So which brand of modern thin/flex heads with strong pawls as you described do you recommend? I assume they are 6 point? Thanks.

 

[setfocus]

only places I find 12 point is on landrovers, hub bolts on jeeps and old ram trucks, axle nuts/bolts on some european cars and toyotas. Deep broach deep well 12 points work well for removing sensors that have electrical connectors on the end. I don't do any heavy engine work

I've got 12-14mm matco 12 points, bought for the hub bolts. Then bought tekton 1/2 drive metric shallow impact set that is 11-24, 27, 30, 32mm but skips 16, 20, 23 for landrovers and was hoping the 30mm would work on toyota axle nuts but it isn't deep enough. I keep forgetting to buy 30 and 32mm 12 point axle nut sockets. Been keeping my eye out for some cheap deep broach deep well sockets, I don't even own anything that works on a 4 cyl ford cyl head temp sensor

I have seen some newer landrovers, not sure the model, that use a really big 12 point nut on the ball joint end of the front lower control arms. Bigger than 32mm, one had bad bushings on the front lower forward arms (tension strut type arm). Had to turn that overpriced POS away.

I'd say keep 12 points in the box. I don't really use my cart for storage, it's a basic cart. I load it with tools for a specific job and use it like a work bench. Only tools that live in the cart are tools in the pry bar rack and random stuff on the bottom shelf

 

[jpaw]

Honestly about the only time you ever use a 12pt socket as a tech is when the fastener requires it which isn't all that often. You could always pick up a cheap set just to have some.
Not knowing your current tool inventory, I'm sure there are better places to spend your money just starting out.
Just remember, if you barrow a tool twice it's probably time to buy your own.
Good luck and don't spend too much on tools until you have a good grasp on how life as a tech is and if it's for you.

 

[nmantas]

EDIT: looks like I made the same point as a bunch of other people before me so you can probably ignore this one.

1/2" breaker bar in a cramped space like a car on jackstands = 12 point. We all have high tooth count ratchets that can make 12 point pointless but the swing angles for a breaker bar are less forgiving and a 12 point gives you more options to get on the fastener or to get another bite on it. Also the chances of rounding of a fastener diminish massively when you are on larger sizes (which is typically the land of 1/2" drive).

 

[guitarbutt]

Lots of insight, thank you all. I live in the south, so there is minimal rust. I already do have them in 12 point, 3/8 and 1/2, so I will reserve some space in the cart for them. In my experience, I've never needed a 12 instead of a 6, but I also have only worked on my vehicles at home. A few made the point of needing two of each socket to be able to turn/ hold both sides of something. That alone makes enough sense to keep them. Thanks again

 

[richfinn]

Lots of insight, thank you all. I live in the south, so there is minimal rust. I already do have them in 12 point, 3/8 and 1/2, so I will reserve some space in the cart for them. In my experience, I've never needed a 12 instead of a 6, but I also have only worked on my vehicles at home. A few made the point of needing two of each socket to be able to turn/ hold both sides of something. That alone makes enough sense to keep them. Thanks again

If you already have them, dont worry about it

You will need 1/4" drive very soon if you end up working on cars

 

[nbpt100]

The thing is you never know what the future will bring. You see posts of people saying I never needed a 18mm for years and now I do. Hold on to your 12pt. sockets. Who knows what some auto mfg will use in the near or distant future. Always keep in mind the cross over sizes as well pointed out in this thread. i.e. 19mm=3/4" 16mm=5/8" etc. good luck.

 

[ChefRex]

6 point to start and buy the best now and you won't need to buy them again then you can get the 12 points, semideeps, swivels, super shallows and every other configuration if you're in it for the long run.
Tools can be an addition.

 

[BrandoJames]

IMO, The best answer to this question is on Tekton’s website:

‘‘Your tool will work best when it fits precisely onto the fastener. If your fastener is 12-point, which is somewhat uncommon, then you must use a 12-point tool. For 6-point fasteners, a 6-point tool is your best choice. Matching up the points between the tool and fastener means that you will maximize the surface area of steel in contact, making the tool less likely to slip or fail. This is important when you’re applying a lot of force, especially if the fastener is damaged or rusted.”

https://www.tekton.com/which-is-better-in-sockets-and-wrenches-6-point-vs-12-point

 

[Wrench97]

You need both eventually, start with the 6 point mid deep and work your way up from there. Buy the 6 point mid deep and next grab a set of shallow 12 point so you have coverage if needed. There are plenty of oddball fasteners auto manufactures use, Torx male and female, Torx plus, Torx security, double square, triple square, Allen and some I'm sure I forgot about.........worst part is some of the obscure ones you'll need cost a lot and will disappear a couple years after you buy the wrench to fit it.
I have 6&12 point in SAE & Metric, shallow, mid, deep, compact, and swivel, in 1/4", 3/8" 1/2" combo wrenches in SAE and Metric in both 6 & 12 up to 22mm & 7/8" larger sizes and wrenches are mostly 12 but there a couple over an inch that I have both as needed. 3/4" sockets are a mixed bag as well impacts are mostly 6 with quite a few 12 garage sale snap on/Williams/matco thrown in.

 

[Mr_B]

you will come across 12 point on lot of things such as head bolts (bought a deep and turned it down for subaru head bolts), manifold nuts, oil pump housings, con rod nuts etc .
they also got uses in scenario of driving onto a damaged head, used to insert seals or bearing etc.
It like 20 to 50 bucks pick up a 3/8 and/or 1/2" rail set give you some basic coverage .
I don't use them much but it be a ****** day when need but ain't got and it far from big money or difficult to source and add some to the basic kit .
Somewhat amazes me how one minute everyone what 2 of everything to be classed as pro yet soon as want double up with some 12 point it not seen as smart solution it really is -
you got 12 point coverage and also a spare option if bust or loose the 6 point ...

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Sounds good! So which brand of modern thin/flex heads with strong pawls as you described do you recommend? I assume they are 6 point? Thanks.

Snap on ratchets. 80 teeth, cheater pipe approved.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I have both as a mechanic. I use both too. I have 12 points in all drives 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 and 6 points in all of those as well and both in SAE and Metric. I’ve used them all I do occasionally run into 12 point bolts especially since I do a lot of diesel work now too instead of just auto. I recommend having both. I got all mine good brands cheap at the pawn shop all the sets were $10 each because they always give me a good deal. I have duplicates of each as well you never know when you will need them.


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[Don1357]

Modern thin/flex head ratchet mechanisms with pawl strength exceeding the shear strength of the square drive itself have made fixed breaker bars essentially obsolete, IMO.

I have made more than one ratchet wrench obsolete by using them when I should have been using a breaker bar... I think the last one I killed was removing a shock absorber nut. The original torque specification was 60 ft-pound, after 20+ years there God knows what the torque was. No space for an impact wrench, unwise to torch it.

Looking at the torque specification for the stuff I like working on I see plenty of 60+ Ft-pound nuts there that over time will need a whole lot more persuasion to come out, and I'm not even talking about the 250+ flywheel and axle nuts that have settled north of 500... At least those will take an impact wrench.

Bottom line; ratchet wrenches will live forever as long as you don't abuse them.

 

[Corndoggeh]

I have 12pt 1/2" and 3/8" sets. My 1/4" set is 6pt. Haven't stripped anything yet despite working on a truck that made its way from Michigan.

I think where people get into trouble with 12pt is when they aren't making good engagement with the fastener that causes them to round out IE coming in at an awkward angle.

Impact sockets are always 6pt though.

 

[Paco Pena]

12 point for 12 point fasteners and very low tooth count ratchets. Otherwise 6 point all the way.

Paco

 

[Fedwrench]

This one of those reoccurring questions here where one answer might not work for everyone. It often depends on what you work on and what you use to do that work. There are many techs that might only have six point impact sockets on their tool cart because they're always using power tools and never encounter a 12 point fastener and have no need for chrome sockets ever.

As for me, I think i have one 12 point 3/8 drive impact impact swivel socket for Ford driveline fasteners on my cart and it is rarely used. I do have a few 12 point sockets for specific tasks like axle/output shaft nuts and head bolts but, that's about it.
Even though this is the Garage Journal where fewer tools is never or seldom the answer, I can't really see a reason to have complete shallow & deep socket sets in six and 12 point across multiple drive sizes but, that's just me.

 

[alexb2000]

Just to echo some other posters: I rebuilt a 10.5 Ford differential last week. The torque required on the crush sleeve is somewhere around 250 ft. lb. I used a long handle Snap-On 3/4 ratchet with a 12 point socket. NO WAY a 6 point would do it. Just not enough room to swing it 4' out from the pinion nut. Even with a 12 pt. it was a one click process.

 

[General Geoff]

I have made more than one ratchet wrench obsolete by using them when I should have been using a breaker bar... I think the last one I killed was removing a shock absorber nut. The original torque specification was 60 ft-pound, after 20+ years there God knows what the torque was. No space for an impact wrench, unwise to torch it.

Looking at the torque specification for the stuff I like working on I see plenty of 60+ Ft-pound nuts there that over time will need a whole lot more persuasion to come out, and I'm not even talking about the 250+ flywheel and axle nuts that have settled north of 500... At least those will take an impact wrench.

Bottom line; ratchet wrenches will live forever as long as you don't abuse them.

Sounds like you could use some stronger ratchets. I've twisted off the heads of breaker bars trying to break bolts loose, which were then finally broken with a ratchet that was stronger.