??? for techs

[NJHandyGuy]

In my line of work i see /deal with alot of mechanics.

i drool everytime i see the show off your toolbox thread but i have to ???

how much of it is really "FLUFF"

yesterday i met a old time mechanic who's been a tech for 42 year and claimed the whole time till recently he's worked out of a craftsman cantilever handbox he had that and a 2 shelf cart that was it

i found myself watching him work and noticed he was efficient yet had no extra tools

this got me to thinking about how much waste some mechanics must have.

so how is it possible

for the record the guys wasn't a.s.e and said that was just a test it proves nothing

interesting guy to watch though

 

[acmike]

I need every tool in the box, and about $100k worth that won't fit in the box.

 

[NJHandyGuy]

That's only funny since i've seen your shop

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110824

 

[RKSpeed]

Seems like techs who only work on one certain brand of vechicle can afford to not have many tools. Guys who work on every brand under the sun have tons of tools. I still cant believe one guy working out of a hand carried box, just wouldnt be able to do it.

 

[warmpancakes]

if he worked on cars made prior to 1980 only he would need a sae socket set and wrench set ,pliers and a hammer,

 

[CHRIS LUCKYMAN]

if he worked on cars made prior to 1980 only he would need a sae socket set and wrench set ,pliers and a hammer,

Maybe for a shadetree mechanic, but performing proper repairs or complex repairs/mods on older stuff requires a lot more than that.

 

[warmpancakes]

Maybe for a shadetree mechanic, but performing proper repairs or complex repairs/mods on older stuff requires a lot more than that.

unless you open the engine or trans thats about all you need, add in a test light and you can fix 1/2 the car, If its a mopar you willneed a ballast resistor

 

[CHRIS LUCKYMAN]

I wish I would have talked to you first before opening my shop a few years ago. You could have saved me a lot of money on tools.
Think - balljoints, brakes, suspension, CV joints, front ends... I guess you could repair those things with a screwdriver and a hammer. Get serious.
I have many, many tools, all get used... and I've never touched a Mopar. You do know that Germany, Italy, England and many other countries made cars before 1980, right?

 

[Moose-LandTran]

It depends on the tech. What works for me might not work for the next guy, and vice-versa.

Do i need all my stuff? That's hard to say, i have tools that only do very specific jobs, which i don't do often.

It really comes down to what the tech wants. If they don't want to buy certain tools to do certain jobs, they'll never do them, so they'll never need those tools.

 

[xj31]

I have a lot of stuff I don't "need". Some of that stuff make certain jobs easier, and when you are working flat rate, time is money. An example I spent way too much for some techangle torque wrenches. 15 guys in the shop don't have them and they get the job done. I just get it done faster.

 

[NJHandyGuy]

hmm very interesteing way of looking at it

 

[Lowridermig]

I also work flat rate and I could do away with half the stuff I own. But I wouldn't make half the money I make. It takes $$$ to make $$$$. Also from my experience Guys/Gals that say ASE doesn't prove anything is most likely due to them being unable to pass. And the only thing they prove is they can't pass a test.In the end workmanship speaks for itself but a Tech/Mech that takes care of their professional appearance is also very important.

 

[plierwire]

Now I am not a tech...but what if the guy did one job, over and over? Like, he was a brakes guy or an alignment guy? Then it seems like he could definitely make do with a setup like you describe.

 

[osborn.ozzy]

Only thing ASE certs ever got me was a little more pay

 

[Lump]

+1 on that Flat Rate perspective, by Lowridermig. I am NOT a tech any more, but lots of my friends still are. And they work at almost a fevered pitch all day long, trying to do a job in two hours when the flat rate book says it will take 3. And those flat rate books are NOT generous! So while these guys could indeed find a way to make lesser tools do the job somehow, they cannot afford to fool around with it.

That's only ONE reason why though...there are more.

 

[ptschram]

Seems like techs who only work on one certain brand of vechicle can afford to not have many tools. Guys who work on every brand under the sun have tons of tools. I still cant believe one guy working out of a hand carried box, just wouldnt be able to do it.

I work on a single brand of vehicle, but I also work on them that were made from 1948 to present.

I need every tool in every box in the shop, I just might not need them right now, or even next week, but I need them all at various times.

 

[richfinn]

I think you can get away with a smallish roll cab (like a Euro type) if the shop provides specialist tooling like pullers/scanners/power tools/pressure gauges/measuring devices/timing tools etc etc.

Most mechanics on here seem to work out of a cart and use the big box to store equipment the shop probably already has. I think dealer techs do this for speed and not having to wait or go looking for tools.

I worked for a guy who had everything hung up on wooden boards with nails and just carried his everyday tools in a hand box, every now and then he would send me to get a torque wrench or a voltmeter off the wall or from the bench, but mostly he would do it by feel or use a bulb and a bit of wire. He even used a whistle to find top dead centre on engines, this guy was a craftsman trained by the Royal Engineers during WW2 and would repair anything, he was still making parts for old cars when I was an apprentice in the 80s.

He once taught me how to bleed up an old Lucas Diesel pump and showed me a trick I will never forget, he cracked open the fuel lines like all the other mechanics would do but before he cranked the engine over on the starter he blocked the air intake with his hand to save the battery and starter and make it spin faster

We also had an old Rover with contact breaker ignition that had had the motor rebuilt and it was very tight (the other mechanics gave up on it when it wouldn,t tow start) and would not fire up, after we volt dropped it to make sure the cables were OK. We got 2 batteries and connected them in series and it wound over for about 10 seconds and fired straight up

 

[Danglerb]

If you look around in some shops the service carts may have more of a tale to tell than the shop boxes. I see service carts with a handful of tools, and I see some where half the guys box is on the cart before the job is done.

Most people don't work on just one car at a time either, so you have maybe three cars waiting for parts or customer OK, so you either have multiples of all the basic tools, or have to move them from car to car as the work progresses.

The only way I can see getting by with a smaller main toolbox is if the shop has all the larger tools on tool board or a shared shop tool box. Hammers, pry bars, pullers, and air tools take some space.

 

[Danglerb]

He once taught me how to bleed up an old Lucas Diesel pump and showed me a trick I will never forget, he cracked open the fuel lines like all the other mechanics would do but before he cranked the engine over on the starter he blocked the air intake with his hand to save the battery and starter and make it spin faster

I'm not following this, wouldn't blocking the air intake make the vacuum higher and the motor spin slower and crank harder?

Or is it vacuum on the intake makes more work during fill, but more than compensated by less work during compression?

Or is something else going on I don't get at all?

 

[dankicksass]

I know a lot of guys who work exclusively out of carts. They're either in unionized shops with extensive community tools or specialty shops with a similar tool situation.

I'm absolutely sure there are tools in my box that I haven't touched in months. That doesn't mean they don't need to still be in there.

 

[richfinn]

I'm not following this, wouldn't blocking the air intake make the vacuum higher and the motor spin slower and crank harder?

Or is it vacuum on the intake makes more work during fill, but more than compensated by less work during compression?

Or is something else going on I don't get at all?

If it cant **** air in, it cant compress it, it spins quicker (much quicker)

 

[csargents1546]

I have stuff in my main box that is almost fluff, a set of hammer stamps that haven't seen a hammer in about 10 years untill yesterday while tearing down a motor. I have seen some techs that have a lot of fluff.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

I've worked with a lot of old guys that do the same work with considerably less than most of us have. What we sacrifice in the name of convenience (space), these old guys make up for with simplicity.

One old guy I knew ran a little shop and he got by with only 1/4" and 3/8" drive sockets. If he needed more power, he had a 1/2" drive breaker bar and an adapter. Combos and crescents were his wrenches of choice, a couple of ball peen hammers, a punch and chisel set, some pliers and a screwdriver set were about all he ever used. He kept an assortment of feeler gauges, a test light and some other stuff all in an old 26" Mac rollaway. While I doubt he would have been in his element fixing a 2011 import, he could make my old '57 F100 purr like a kitten. This old guy fixed more than a few mistakes I made when I was learning to pull wrenches. He also would let me come into the bay with him and he'd show me where I went wrong, and how to do it right. He made that old 223 run better than the EFI 300 I drive now ever has, and did it with a vacuum gauge, a timing light, a little tiny file and a whole lot of know how.

 

[Toolhorder]

I have a lot of stuff I don't "need". Some of that stuff make certain jobs easier, and when you are working flat rate, time is money. An example I spent way too much for some techangle torque wrenches. 15 guys in the shop don't have them and they get the job done. I just get it done faster.

This^^^^

For your techangle torque wrench example I used to torque heads on a Range Rover head gasket job in 20 mins. with an angle gauge attached to a 1/2 breaker bar for final torque down but with the techangle torque wrench it's 5 mins. No setting up the angle gauge to the cyl. head or trying to get it so my breaker bar doesn't hit things under the hood.

Don't "NEED" it but it makes me faster and more money.

 

[CommonRail]

Teachangle is one of the best tools ever invented. Expensive, yet so worth it.

 

[ibedayank]

I have stuff here that only takes sae stuff
could get by with 1/2 set and a 1/4 drives set some screwdriveres and set of wrenches plus a gearpuller and slide hammer to fix it all


other stuff takes much more sea/metric/whitworth
and lots of special make specific tools

 

[metalhead212121]

My .02.

Those who have read my posts know Ive worked a ton of different places and wore a ton of different hats. Some guys have a ton of talent and can get by with a handful of tools. I on the other hand am NOT gifted with a ton of talent.

Heres one story for you guys.. I worked with one guy that bashed snap on and every tech he saw in the shop. He was retired and was just killing time till he retired. He ran his own shop for a billion years and had a small toolbox.. nothing special. He could get away with having a small amount of tools simply because he specialized in electrical. Everybody knows in this business if you want to make money and not kill your body learn electronics. Obviously I didnt listen to that statement. Yes.. this guy was great with electronics. BUT at the end of the day he NEVER put a clutch in a front wheel drive car or put a timing belt in an Audi. Whatever jobs came around like that he'd pass on. So of course the guy didnt need a big tool box. He also didnt NEED to have a **** load of tools because he could **** around with tools that "kinda sorta" worked. Yes the job got done and Im sure took a lot longer. Yes.. Im sure the quality of work was up to par. What does it matter when you're a shop owner and most of your accounts are contracted by different cities? No one is gonna ride his *** about the job taking too long to get done (in theory).

I personally have A LOT of $$$$ wrapped up when it comes to tap and die sets. Why?? Because I worked/work on a lot of **** thats rusty. Guys at the dealer DONT really need tap and die sets... if something is rusty it doesnt pay to clean up the threads. A new bolt or nut is ordered and installed. I doubt the guys put antiseize on anything because at the end of the day time=money. Theres definatly been times where Ive seen guys go around and asking different people in the shop for a certain tap or die. Usual response is I dont have that.. Depending if I liked the guy or not and how urgent it was I offer to bring in my own tap and die set for them to use. Some places I worked at (and despised) Id let the place suffer and let them run around like assholes to find a tap or die. I figured if they were too cheap to pay me they could make it up to me by hunting for stuff.

A guy like Moose NEEDS to have a lot of different stuff. German cars LOVE speciality tools. God.. how many times did I field calls at BMW saying "yeah Im doing a job on a certain car and now Im knee deep in the car and I think I need this or that tool.... can you give me some insight??" I just wanted to scream at the top of my lungs WHY WHY WHY!!!?!?!?!!?

Ive dealt with other guys that have a decent setup when it comes to tools and think they're king ****. They have a small shop and do general maintence stuff with their decent setup. Those guys really need to look at the tool box thread on here and see how small their setup is in comparision.

Ive worked on every type of car under the sun. NO I am not the best tech out there... Im by FAR NOT the worst either! Ive got tools for everything. A lot of people are impressed when they see my box. I tell them flat out.. please dont judge me by my toolbox. Judge me by quality of work.

Guys at dealers with big boxes filled with tools is just guys with big egos. UNLESS they are working on different cars after hours or are working on trade in vehicles that big tool box filled with tools is a big waste in my opinion.

Dan

 

[ibedayank]

metalhead


i work on stuff from 1920-2011 from 25cc to 500 cummings
if it can be started or towed and needs to be worked on...i am it
boss says fix..i fix


humm wonder if my computer fits as a tool being i built and maintain works website...lol

 

[metalhead212121]

ibedayank- got pics of your toolbox and contents??

Dan

 

[ibedayank]

ibedayank- got pics of your toolbox and contents??

Dan

yep listed in toolbox thread...lol

 

[metalhead212121]

yep listed in toolbox thread...lol

dude.. you gotta give me a page #.. its a zillion pages long. The pics of my setup are on 167, 168, 209. Ive added more since then...

Dan

 

[bobcatdan]

There is often room to trim the fat. In the shop I have a krl 1022 witha kra 62c road chest on top filled to the breaking point. One man shop with limited shop supplied tools. The service truck has the simple craftsman combo sears had on sale everyweek for $300 for ten years, 8 drawer top, 3 dawer middle and 5 drawer bottom. Everything I need to fix a skidsteer on the road is there and I will do everything on the road up to pulling an engine. So realistically I could 99% of what I do with an overall very basic set on the truck, but it's that 1% of the time, that you need more, and that 1% is always a different tool. All that said, there is at least 50 tools in the shop box that could be considered fluff, either I thought they would be great for something and just never really used them or I just bought something cool because I'm stupid like that.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

In my line of work i see /deal with alot of mechanics.

i drool everytime i see the show off your toolbox thread but i have to ???

how much of it is really "FLUFF"

yesterday i met a old time mechanic who's been a tech for 42 year and claimed the whole time till recently he's worked out of a craftsman cantilever handbox he had that and a 2 shelf cart that was it

i found myself watching him work and noticed he was efficient yet had no extra tools

this got me to thinking about how much waste some mechanics must have.

so how is it possible

for the record the guys wasn't a.s.e and said that was just a test it proves nothing

interesting guy to watch though

was it a quick oil change ? 65 year old lube man

 

[punkenduro]

its fluff till it saves you a hours worth of work, then it saved you ***. there is no fluff in a tool box unless its duplicates, imho.

 

[ibedayank]

dude.. you gotta give me a page #.. its a zillion pages long. The pics of my setup are on 167, 168, 209. Ive added more since then...

Dan

page 245

took a bit to find it

 

[Toolhorder]

My .02.

Those who have read my posts know Ive worked a ton of different places and wore a ton of different hats. Some guys have a ton of talent and can get by with a handful of tools. I on the other hand am NOT gifted with a ton of talent.

Heres one story for you guys.. I worked with one guy that bashed snap on and every tech he saw in the shop. He was retired and was just killing time till he retired. He ran his own shop for a billion years and had a small toolbox.. nothing special. He could get away with having a small amount of tools simply because he specialized in electrical. Everybody knows in this business if you want to make money and not kill your body learn electronics. Obviously I didnt listen to that statement. Yes.. this guy was great with electronics. BUT at the end of the day he NEVER put a clutch in a front wheel drive car or put a timing belt in an Audi. Whatever jobs came around like that he'd pass on. So of course the guy didnt need a big tool box. He also didnt NEED to have a **** load of tools because he could **** around with tools that "kinda sorta" worked. Yes the job got done and Im sure took a lot longer. Yes.. Im sure the quality of work was up to par. What does it matter when you're a shop owner and most of your accounts are contracted by different cities? No one is gonna ride his *** about the job taking too long to get done (in theory).

I personally have A LOT of $$$$ wrapped up when it comes to tap and die sets. Why?? Because I worked/work on a lot of **** thats rusty. Guys at the dealer DONT really need tap and die sets... if something is rusty it doesnt pay to clean up the threads. A new bolt or nut is ordered and installed. I doubt the guys put antiseize on anything because at the end of the day time=money. Theres definatly been times where Ive seen guys go around and asking different people in the shop for a certain tap or die. Usual response is I dont have that.. Depending if I liked the guy or not and how urgent it was I offer to bring in my own tap and die set for them to use. Some places I worked at (and despised) Id let the place suffer and let them run around like assholes to find a tap or die. I figured if they were too cheap to pay me they could make it up to me by hunting for stuff.

A guy like Moose NEEDS to have a lot of different stuff. German cars LOVE speciality tools. God.. how many times did I field calls at BMW saying "yeah Im doing a job on a certain car and now Im knee deep in the car and I think I need this or that tool.... can you give me some insight??" I just wanted to scream at the top of my lungs WHY WHY WHY!!!?!?!?!!?

Ive dealt with other guys that have a decent setup when it comes to tools and think they're king ****. They have a small shop and do general maintence stuff with their decent setup. Those guys really need to look at the tool box thread on here and see how small their setup is in comparision.

Ive worked on every type of car under the sun. NO I am not the best tech out there... Im by FAR NOT the worst either! Ive got tools for everything. A lot of people are impressed when they see my box. I tell them flat out.. please dont judge me by my toolbox. Judge me by quality of work.

Guys at dealers with big boxes filled with tools is just guys with big egos. UNLESS they are working on different cars after hours or are working on trade in vehicles that big tool box filled with tools is a big waste in my opinion.

Dan

I disagree about taps and dies and dealer techs. I've been mostly a dealer tech and I have a **** load of taps/dies. I have a Hanson master set, a set for axle shafts, a regular set from Sears (rebadged same as SO's), a Matco easy out set shaped like a triangle wedge, a Matco easy out set shaped like spirals, a bunch of loose taps and dies that don't fit anywhere else. About 3 sets of drill bits, two air drills (regular and 90 degree), torch, induction heater, candles for the wax trick (I learned that here)
I've done a ton of repairs and broken bolt removal. We don't get paid anymore usually for broken bolts that happen in the course of repairs or if stuff is rusty although I'm fortunate to live in CA. and stuff usually isn't bad compare to the salt belt.

I do agree about German cars needing special tools. I had to do a head gasket on a VW 20 valve beetle not long ago and was calling my SO dealer middle of the job for a head bolt socket. POS german spline drive!

 

[metalhead212121]

Toolhorder- your opinion most likely outweights mine since you've probably been "around the block" more than me. Rarely did I see any techs I work with break out tap and die sets. It seemed like everytime I turned around the guys just wanted a new nut and/or bolt. Whats the candle wax trick??
Thats a new one for me.

Im not sure what you mean by axle shafts? Are you talking about axle nut sockets on fwd cars?

Dan

 

[Toolhorder]

Toolhorder- your opinion most likely outweights mine since you've probably been "around the block" more than me. Rarely did I see any techs I work with break out tap and die sets. It seemed like everytime I turned around the guys just wanted a new nut and/or bolt. Whats the candle wax trick??
Thats a new one for me.

Im not sure what you mean by axle shafts? Are you talking about axle nut sockets on fwd cars?

Dan

It's not a contest Dan I was just offering up some perspective cause I think a lot of times especially on this forum people get notions that a dealer tech is this or a independent guy is this.
Bolts and nuts are rarely avail. without having to order them unless it's a common failed part at least with Honda/Acura. Most of us have a hardware stashed in our boxs or whatever that comes off used engines or junk parts.
I usually fix anything I think is going to give me a problem. I'm usually the guy that chases threads on parts going back on or fixing some lube kids broken off bolt or whatever.
It's a skill I learned to embrace over the years.
The "oh ****, now what" has been replaced with "I can fix this I have the tools"
Candle wax trick is a new one for me, I learned it here and it works great. You heat the part up then melt a candle and the wax goes in between the threads and frees them up when it cools.

I had a bolt seized holding a cat. convertor to a manifold awhile back. I removed them both and put them into a vise. Heated the bolt with a torch until it was red hot then touched a candle to the bolt and the wax melted down into the threads. I waited a bit to cool then turned it right out. Co-workers were looking at me like I was an effing wizard.

The axle shaft die kit has big dies that fix the threads of the axle on front wheel drive cars. When you have to hammer on the axle shaft to get it out of the hub sometimes you slip and marr the threads. I used to use a thread file but had a real bad one once and so I got the kit. I think mine is Matco and works well. Use it a couple times but paid for itself a couple times already compared to eating an axle.

 

[bgott]

Someday I'll get a set of split dies for axle shafts. The regular axle shaft dies **** to get started without cross threading.

 

[Toolhorder]

My box is on the show your toolbox thread to BTW page 188.