Ford VCM 2 or IDS tool

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Anyone ever bought one of these (or the cheap chinese clones)?

I'd really like to avoid dealers totally in the future.

 

[Fedwrench]

Yes, We have them at work. The VCM serves as the interface between a laptop and the vehicle. You also have to have a subscription from Ford Rotunda/Motorcraft to to activate and use the system. Without an active subscription, the VCM & IDS won't work.

I wouldn't buy a PRC clone but, that's just me.

I'm not sure why you want to avoid a Ford dealer but, it seems a bit futile to me.

 

[ptschram]

The clones are made in the same factory as the real ones, the difference is that the software is bootlegged.

I investigated buying one but eventually decided there were other better options.

Be aware that you're gonna be limited to the OEs you can access via the OE-specific scan tools. If you're ever gonna own anything other than a Ford, there are much better options.

 

[kd3pc]

Anyone ever bought one of these (or the cheap chinese clones)?

I'd really like to avoid dealers totally in the future.

If any thing, the link between scan tools, software to run it, and the car are getting much closer together....and the dealer/maker is 100% in control. As systems get more exotic, those millions of lines of SW code are going to be controlled entirely by the dealer.

Those tools, even for a dealer, are very pricey and all but mandatory to troubleshoot complex problems. OEM scan tools will get you in the ball park...

Just look at Deere and Co, and their proposals to "lease" machine code for their vehicles, to the buyer of said vehicle. That model is gaining steam...see the posts here on scan tools for diesel techs.

Best of luck,

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Is there any way to stop this trend? Or are we relegating to shelling out money to dealers for the rest of our lives?

 

[gungatim]

I don't think there is any stopping it....when I bought my new truck, I was surprised I had to sign documents regarding the software, the onstar, etc. no modifications allowed, all proprietary...not even supposed to remove the antenna...probably so they can disable the vehicle at will....

 

[theoldwizard1]

If any thing, the link between scan tools, software to run it, and the car are getting much closer together....and the dealer/maker is 100% in control. As systems get more exotic, those millions of lines of SW code are going to be controlled entirely by the dealer.

NOT TRUE !

The government has already forced the car companies to spend millions to give non-dealers access to the same information. A close personal friend worked on the project for one of the Detroit 3 over 10 years ago.

Those tools, even for a dealer, are very pricey and all but mandatory to troubleshoot complex problems.

Now I never said those tools were "reasonably priced" or that the data was free ! Yes, that stuff is expensive !

Just look at Deere and Co, and their proposals to "lease" machine code for their vehicles, to the buyer of said vehicle. That model is gaining steam...

That business model is NOT likely to gain traction !

Buying a new version with additional feature IS a possibility.



(I have over 30 years in the automotive industry close related to issues regarding government controls. I also dealt with many software companies and their purchase/lease policies, so I feel well qualified to comment on this.)

 

[kd3pc]

That business model is NOT likely to gain traction !

Buying a new version with additional feature IS a possibility.

already is...see the threads here on big diesel power and other specific forums on boat and stationary power systems...No warranty ticket or paid PO - no service from CAT, Cummins, and Deere, nor can anyone work on the gear - it voids the warranty...and all of those customers have signed the paperwork agreeing...as there is no other option for them. Europe is even worse with MAN, Steyer and the like - almost a decade ahead of the US in this model.

It's been a couple of years, here in the states, already in these markets, and only a couple of letters to their congressman from some irate farmers..so far?

I see it in boats daily...ONLY the maker's techs, with their laptops and SW...getting to the meat of the problem.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

The more I hear about proprietary vehicle controls, the more satisfied I am with my gas guzzling f250 with a 460/c-6 and carb. With a little work I'll get close to the same mileage as newer trucks [while loaded] and keep my carbon footprint small ;reduce, reuse, recycle. And I don't have 500 to 1000 dollar a month payments [tho a lot goes into the tank :0 ].

And I'm getting closer to adopting Linux...

 

[theoldwizard1]

Is there any way to stop this trend? Or are we relegating to shelling out money to dealers for the rest of our lives?

The 3 best automotive electronic diagnosticians on YouTube are Pail Danner for Scanner Danner and Eric O. of South Main Auto and Ivan of motoYam82. All use various "over the counter" premium scan/diagnostic tools, sometimes relying on oscilloscopes (although Eric O. insists a 12V test light is the most valuable).

Scanning for codes simply sends the in the right general direction. All of them use their understanding of how a 4 stroke engine works and their knowledge of basic electric circuit to nail down the issue. ALL of them would be dead on the water with out good wiring diagrams, and diagrams showing where components and junction are physically located on the vehicle.

"Common Sense"/logic and general electrical repair experience almost always allow these guys to pinpoint to issue.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

The 3 best automotive electronic diagnosticians on YouTube are Pail Danner for Scanner Danner and Eric O. of South Main Auto and Ivan of motoYam82. All use various "over the counter" premium scan/diagnostic tools, sometimes relying on oscilloscopes (although Eric O. insists a 12V test light is the most valuable).

Scanning for codes simply sends the in the right general direction. All of them use their understanding of how a 4 stroke engine works and their knowledge of basic electric circuit to nail down the issue. ALL of them would be dead on the water with out good wiring diagrams, and diagrams showing where components and junction are physically located on the vehicle.

"Common Sense"/logic and general electrical repair experience almost always allow these guys to pinpoint to issue.

Eric = Eric the car guy?

There is a Ford guy I like:

FordTechMakuloco

 

[JKady]

Buying your own VCM2/IDS setup is going to run you 2-3k + a subscription. It is the best tool for the job when it comes to working on a Ford or Mazda but it isn't worth it for a home gamer IMO. I have used all the big aftermarket tools and frankly, they aren't as capable, and they can't do a lot of the service functions/live data/bi-directional testing etc... that the IDS can.

A good USB/Bluetooth/WiFi OBD2 adapter (one that is CAN capable) and ForScan, which you can download for free will do just about anything you're going to want to muck with in your garage for a lot less money.

Eric = Eric the car guy?

There is a Ford guy I like:

FordTechMakuloco

Makuloco is a GOOF! He holds near pariah status in the community of actual Ford techs (Note, he isn't one anymore). Some of the "tricks" he has posted up are absolute hack job garbage.

 

[theoldwizard1]

already is...see the threads here on big diesel power and other specific forums on boat and stationary power systems...No warranty ticket or paid PO - no service from CAT, Cummins, and Deere, nor can anyone work on the gear - it voids the warranty...and all of those customers have signed the paperwork agreeing...as there is no other option for them.

Back in the 60s, Xerox tried this. The Federal Government harassed them long enough and hard enough that they gave it up.

Of course there were a lot more copiers owned by the government back then then there are diesel trucks.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Eric = Eric the car guy?

There is a Ford guy I like:

No. Eric the Car Guy is good at "twisting wrenches" but not the best at diagnosing electrical issues.

Eric O. at South Main Auto I think is the best in that area. Scanner Danner, of course, is a teacher so he comes at it more from that angle. Ivan (motYam82) is fun to watch. Shade tree Russian mechanic, who, like Eric O. is great with basic electrical knowledge. Not as experienced as Eric O. so sometimes it takes him a bit longer.

One of my favorite South Main Auto videos is when Eric O. fix a newer GM diesel pickup truck that a dealer could not fix even though he admitted to not knowing much about modern diesels with all their extra sensors and actuator. Sometime I think he has "spidey" sense !

Like I said before, without a wiring diagram, even for HVAC work, your dead in the water before you started.

 

[sberry]

You can have the dealer trouble shoot on occasion for that kind of money. But I don't have the scan and seem to keep a dozen cars going without it and havnt had to have the dealer for a fix so far. Shops see all the problems, not the ones that work correctly and that is a whole lot more.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

No. Eric the Car Guy is good at "twisting wrenches" but not the best at diagnosing electrical issues.

Eric O. at South Main Auto I think is the best in that area. Scanner Danner, of course, is a teacher so he comes at it more from that angle. Ivan (motYam82) is fun to watch. Shade tree Russian mechanic, who, like Eric O. is great with basic electrical knowledge. Not as experienced as Eric O. so sometimes it takes him a bit longer.

One of my favorite South Main Auto videos is when Eric O. fix a newer GM diesel pickup truck that a dealer could not fix even though he admitted to not knowing much about modern diesels with all their extra sensors and actuator. Sometime I think he has "spidey" sense !

Like I said before, without a wiring diagram, even for HVAC work, your dead in the water before you started.

Nice, subscribed.

 

[JonnyMac]

There is nothing mystical about factory scan tools and their capability. Every scan tool (to a point) simply gathers CAN messages and displays them in a fashion other than digits.
This interpretation of the raw CAN message is then translated into an easily read explanation.
This "dictionary" of translations is an extensive database file which is produced by the OEM. This is where the factory tool has the upper hand, access to the database..
On top of this the factory tools have the abilty to run standardized protocols to aid diagnostics.
However when the vehicles are being developed we dont use factory tools for many reasons but mainly its because we have a read/write need. Even though we have a direct link to the module you are working with whether engine, trans, body, climate etc the underlying method is the same, pick up the CAN message and understand what it means..
Almost any CAN tool can read all the CAN bus signals, you just need to be able to understand the messages.. theres plentry of software that claim to be able to do that translation.

 

[Fedwrench]

Is there any way to stop this trend? Or are we relegating to shelling out money to dealers for the rest of our lives?

The short answer is no and Yes.

Vehicles are becoming increasingly complex these days with the demand for higher fuel economy coupled with enhanced safety and infotainment systems.

Although you may be able to go to a skilled and well equipped independent shop for many things, you may need to go to the dealer for things like safety enhancements (automatic braking, lane departure, cross traffic alerts) air bags, etc.

There are even many techs that have difficulty mastering the skills needed to perform complex electrical diagnosis let alone the average car owner.

 

[theoldwizard1]

There are even many techs that have difficulty mastering the skills needed to perform complex electrical diagnosis let alone the average car owner.

In most cases, if you don't have access to a wiring diagram, forget about it !

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

There is nothing mystical about factory scan tools and their capability. Every scan tool (to a point) simply gathers CAN messages and displays them in a fashion other than digits.
This interpretation of the raw CAN message is then translated into an easily read explanation.
This "dictionary" of translations is an extensive database file which is produced by the OEM. This is where the factory tool has the upper hand, access to the database..
On top of this the factory tools have the abilty to run standardized protocols to aid diagnostics.
However when the vehicles are being developed we dont use factory tools for many reasons but mainly its because we have a read/write need. Even though we have a direct link to the module you are working with whether engine, trans, body, climate etc the underlying method is the same, pick up the CAN message and understand what it means..
Almost any CAN tool can read all the CAN bus signals, you just need to be able to understand the messages.. theres plentry of software that claim to be able to do that translation.

I have the Powershift transmission, Ford's specific software is needed to get the transmission to go into "relearn mode". Without it, you will be stuck in "limp home mode".

 

[johnt2k7]

As far as Im aware all manufacturers have to offer to sell their software/diagnostic suite in order to produce and sell the vehicles, however their is no regulations on the price, it is up to the vendor to set the price of their intellectual property. Because someone could always reverse engineer their software and add their Proprietary Service Functions / Bi-directional Controls to another OBDII scanner like Snapon does.




Back on Topic

Buying your own VCM2/IDS setup is going to run you 2-3k + a subscription.

VCM 2 From Rotunda is $1500 any one can buy it (link Below).You will need a subscription to activate the software "IDS" $850 Yearly (link also Below). Once your subscription runs out you will no longer be able to access As Built or Module data from the server for Performing Updates, but the software still works to its current level. So if the vehicle is a newer model year or has a newer update then ids is aware of it will not be able to establish the initial com link and will not work.

https://rotunda.service-solutions.com/en-US/Pages/ItemDetail.aspx?SKU=164-R9805

https://www.motorcraftservice.com/Product/IDSSoftwareLicensing

And by using Ford Credentials and Logging into FMC Dealer, the VCMII and the Subscription Can Be Purchased for a Significant Discount.

 

[amlv20]

I have the Powershift transmission, Ford's specific software is needed to get the transmission to go into "relearn mode". Without it, you will be stuck in "limp home mode".

The dps6 can relearn the clutch without the scan tool.there is a manual drive cycle procedure but it *****,it's how we were doing when they first came out before they came up with the clutch relearn program in the Ids.some times the Ids and tcm don't agree with each other and we have to resort to to the original drive cycle procedure.

The cheap chinese vcms **** and create more issues than what is trying to be diagnosed and have also seen them short out and cause havoc on the CAN system.

A vcm 2 will run you $1500 and a year Ids subscription around $800,plus you need to get a laptop that meets all the requirements.for a diy'r it isn't worth it,plus as a non dealer you will not get access to all features like programming and as bilt.and especially for your p.o.s transmission,save your money and get rid of your car.the trans is a piece of poorly engineered ****,no matter how you drive or what you do you will need a clutch every 30k,a tcm every summer or so,and as miles get up there the clutch actuators and motors start to fail.

OEM's have to share ob2 diagnostics for engines but are not required to share any others information on other vehicle systems.snap on and autels and other scanners are good for engine information but fall flat when it comes to sub systems like infotainment,body,security,blind spot,collision avoidance,lane departure,hvac and comfort,navigation and so on..today's fords have 20+ modules on multiple networks.my dealer has a snap on modis ultra but I never use it,the data logging pids is slow and twitchy and the more peramitters are on the screen the slower it is and bi directional controls are only one at a time.the Ids datalogger can have up to 20 pids and the refresh rate is much faster and smooth,and can control multiple bi directional controls at the same time.the Ids also has misfire monitor,power balance,relative compression and other useful tests.it also has a very usful network test and live can network monitor.the only thing I lke about the modis is the built in scope,where as the Ids needs the bulky vmm connected and makes a mess of wires to the lap top like using a pico scope.i only recommend an Ids to a non dealer if you are a ford specialist or work on a lot of fords.


I enjoy watching Eric o.,Ivan, and scanner danner for fun as much as the next guy.but they are not the best techs I've seen and they are good at what they do,but they do not work on real advanced new stuff.yes Eric diagnosed that chevy diesel for what ever reason the dealer couldn't.but all it was a simple electrical circuit,not a nox sensor eratic signal or nox conversion efficientcy performance p207f ******** dtc.the real one should be on YouTube that has real good hard and complex advanced issues like dealers deal with is Ivan's friend.i wish I my days involved doing the gravy work they get,not stuck with navigation issues,intermitent no key detected,comunication issues,and so on.....the two best ford techs on you tube were sr.master tech and diesel tech ron...may both R.I.P.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Thanks for the info amlv. I am very happy with the car, except for the ******. I have the extended warranty so I will have to take that into account.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MLB0611]

The dps6 can relearn the clutch without the scan tool.there is a manual drive cycle procedure but it *****,it's how we were doing when they first came out before they came up with the clutch relearn program in the Ids.some times the Ids and tcm don't agree with each other and we have to resort to to the original drive cycle procedure.

The cheap chinese vcms **** and create more issues than what is trying to be diagnosed and have also seen them short out and cause havoc on the CAN system.

A vcm 2 will run you $1500 and a year Ids subscription around $800,plus you need to get a laptop that meets all the requirements.for a diy'r it isn't worth it,plus as a non dealer you will not get access to all features like programming and as bilt.and especially for your p.o.s transmission,save your money and get rid of your car.the trans is a piece of poorly engineered ****,no matter how you drive or what you do you will need a clutch every 30k,a tcm every summer or so,and as miles get up there the clutch actuators and motors start to fail.


OEM's have to share ob2 diagnostics for engines but are not required to share any others information on other vehicle systems.snap on and autels and other scanners are good for engine information but fall flat when it comes to sub systems like infotainment,body,security,blind spot,collision avoidance,lane departure,hvac and comfort,navigation and so on..today's fords have 20+ modules on multiple networks.my dealer has a snap on modis ultra but I never use it,the data logging pids is slow and twitchy and the more peramitters are on the screen the slower it is and bi directional controls are only one at a time.the Ids datalogger can have up to 20 pids and the refresh rate is much faster and smooth,and can control multiple bi directional controls at the same time.the Ids also has misfire monitor,power balance,relative compression and other useful tests.it also has a very usful network test and live can network monitor.the only thing I lke about the modis is the built in scope,where as the Ids needs the bulky vmm connected and makes a mess of wires to the lap top like using a pico scope.i only recommend an Ids to a non dealer if you are a ford specialist or work on a lot of fords.


I enjoy watching Eric o.,Ivan, and scanner danner for fun as much as the next guy.but they are not the best techs I've seen and they are good at what they do,but they do not work on real advanced new stuff.yes Eric diagnosed that chevy diesel for what ever reason the dealer couldn't.but all it was a simple electrical circuit,not a nox sensor eratic signal or nox conversion efficientcy performance p207f ******** dtc.the real one should be on YouTube that has real good hard and complex advanced issues like dealers deal with is Ivan's friend.i wish I my days involved doing the gravy work they get,not stuck with navigation issues,intermitent no key detected,comunication issues,and so on.....the two best ford techs on you tube were sr.master tech and diesel tech ron...may both R.I.P.

Not true, subscription includes programing, and asbuilt is available on the motorcraft site, the shop I work has IDS, I reflash, and replace modules a good bit on Fords.
Today I replaced a PCM on a Cadillac for not grounding the ac compressor relay and flashed the ECM,I can do the same with toyota, Honda or BMW

 

[pi_guy]

Is there any way to stop this trend? Or are we relegating to shelling out money to dealers for the rest of our lives?

What are the run of the mill software people doing can you get an install disk of current version of office? Everybody wants their cut of the pie, where years ago you could get a unlimited install of office for say a college or university, try that one now.
Chased down a programmer of a ecu that ran at LeMans and the car was sold to gentleman racer for vintage racing. There is a different ecu map for every gear change the rain setup and different tracks major difference is street circuits vs real tracks and he wanted a few k for just the gear change ones to several thousand for the more complex and developed ones. & would not sell password
So you need to change your expectations but at least with the ford stuff there will be many other solutions come up, stuff with one or two applications not so much.

 

[goingtoarizona]

Don't bother. When I worked at the Ford Dealer the GM bought one and it didn't work. I don't believe they are made in the same factory as there are numerous casting differences and the labels are different. Unless you are a trained factory tech the added info from a dealer tool won't help you any. Read the help requests on this forum, for that matter read help requests from professional techs on IATN. Unless you understand and can diagnose can systems etc, use a generic or Snap On scanner and pay the dealer for the hard to diagnose repairs. It'll still be tons cheaper than the factory knock off tool.

 

[ptschram]

Because someone could always reverse engineer their software and add their Proprietary Service Functions / Bi-directional Controls to another OBDII scanner like Snapon does.

Snap-On does not reverse engineer or bootleg any fo their diagnostic software. We buy all of our data from the OEMs.

I don't believe they are made in the same factory as there are numerous casting differences and the labels are different.

I can assure you they are as my niece who lives in HK visited the factory as my agent in neighboring Guagzhu (or something close) and was shown the exact same cases, but in different colors and was offered whatever labeling she indicated she wanted. She was flat out told that those sold as other than ford were second and third shift production.

 

[Ecmbuster]

This may be a late entry into this discussion and only a personal opinion.
My professional opinion is based on more than 40 years of experience.
Ford IDS is a very good tool and depending on the version, should connect with the VCM I, VCM II and VCM 3.
On older model Fords, the VCM I is still used with the VCM II. Both of those models will connect to the older UBP network.
The VCM 3 will not. The VCM 3 will have the ability to diagnose via DoIP. (Diagnosis over Internet Protocol).
Yes, an IP address within the driver assist systems and highly protected.
I currently have the VCM I and VCM 3.
All VCM's can be used on WiFi. Both work great.

Clones are mostly garbage and can not be updated with any firmware or change manufacturer firmware(s) such as Mazda and Jag/Rover.
Yes, Mazda and Jag/Rover - back to Ford. The clones are set generally to one software version. Attempting that change, trashes the clone.
Clones have also been disguised as a VCM with some type with a cheap multiplexer / imitation.
It's like "wearing some one else’s underwear".
Clones also have a difficult time with being "blacklisted" if connected to the Ford servers while attempting a program update.

Another avenue is FORScan.
It comes in different flavors with Windows, Android and iOS.
The Windows version has much more under the hood.
The interfaces however can be an annoyance because of the "over seas hacks"
The ELM327 device of good quality works and depending on the version, can have a switch added (or purchased assembly) to attach itself to either the High Speed or Medium Speed network. It will also connect to the ISO network.
The personal preference is a high quality ELM327 with hand made switch connections with Bluetooth and also the OBDLink MX +.
Another choice with acquaintances is the USB version of the OBDLink EX.
The OBDLink devices are slightly different because they are based on the STN1100 chipset that requires firmware and occasional updates.
FORScan can not connect to the UBP network.
FORScan will also connect with good quality J2534-2 devices. The data transfer is much faster.
The VCM's of any version will also connect with FORScan as a J2534-2 device.

Much of the IDS abilities are built into the FORScan program and behaves similar to the IDS program.
Those abilities require a temporary or purchased license on the laptop version only.
For quick tests and screen recordings, the Android version works quite well and familiarizing more with the iOS device.