%^%#$@%&*^#! Ford!!

[Charles (in GA)]

do them early before its too late. plugs are cheap compared to taking the head off and bringing it to the machine shop to be re threaded.

My thinking is that, if you know there is a problem, you need to be pulling the plugs and reinstalling them (with anti-seize) every 20K or so, just to keep them easy to remove. Why wait till its running rough and has 90K to discover you are going to destroy the head, etc.

Charles

 

[rodm1]

I would remove them every year and reapply Never Seez. Are you guys using the nickel high temp stuff? I haven't had any luck with the regular permatex 133K on plugs.

 

[mjn]

I did mine on my 06 over a yr ago when was installing my supercharger and all of them came out fine. In my instructions Roush had in there not to apply any antiseze of any sort so I debated and put non on. I was worried and scared with every turn when taking them out but figured had good chance since only had about 15,000 miles or so on it.

 

[HandyManny]

Ford has a technical service bulletin on the spark plug removal on the 2004 and up triton engines.You warm up up the vehicle up first for at least 45 minutes and shut it off.Remove all the coils and crack the spark plugs loose an 1/8th of a turn.Pour down a little bit of Ford's top end engine cleaner down each hole ,tighten them up after that and let it soak overnight.Next day remove them using no air tools by hand,loosening them up back and forth.

I thought that service bulletin included the '04 but covered the '02 to '06 or something like that. Not sure how Ford could screw that up on an engine they'd been making for years. A lot of F150 owners were getting stuck with bills of over $1000 dollars because the cylinder heads had to be removed. I like Ford F150's but this is just terrible coming from Ford.

 

[HandyManny]

I got to work with Ford engineers at Roush as a tech and sadly had to assist some young ones with the fabrication of a small V8 install in what is now the Taurus. Sad as I thought having a background in automotive repair would get me a job with a bachelor degree in mechanical engineering, but that isn’t the way it works. They missed basic mechanical things like PS lines lift in use(under pressure). The rear drive shaft took out the PS lines on all the Taurus we built even with warning them ahead of time. This was years ago and they would take a new Ford 500 and take it down to a shell then test future power trains and suspensions and other stuff with making a turnkey vehicle to test. I am not surprised with broken spark plugs with what they value for engineers.

You'd be surprised just how dumb some people with Masters degrees and PhD's can really be. There is a big difference between common sense, practical knowledge and just simply being book smart or testing well. One of the most incompetent people I have the misfortune of knowing holds a PhD degree.

 

[vssjim]

I hate Fords as well but Land Rovers are worse.

Got to remember ford used to own them too

 

[ngk22r]

I hate Fords as well but Land Rovers are worse.

Hey, Rovers are not bad... As long as you stay away from the Freelander and the old P38 Range Rovers with wiring issues.

 

[wafrederick]

Land Rovers are the same way as Fords,a real pain in the *** to work on.Had to change spark plugs on a Land Rover and I wanted to strangle the engineer.Back plugs were horrible to get to.Land Rovers are still a POS,An used engine is three grand from any junkyard.Ford never likes doing anything the easy way and is always the hard way.

 

[ajchien]

Having not owned a Ford, can you guys enlighten me as to what the issue is?

It sounds like the plugs are commonly seized in place and break apart when attempting to remove? Or is it difficult access to the plugs?

 

[PaulR]

To my knowledge it's some sort of 2 piece plug design that breaks apart very easily upon removal. I'm sure someone will chime in with more details.

 

[atari]

Carbon builds up around the bottom of the plug around the shaft part and locks it into the head. I was told to run the car/truck up to operating temp and hit them with a 3/8 impact. I feel lucky that I have a PI-4.6W and all I have to worry about the plugs blowing out! Im not sure whats worse though.........

 

[Toolhorder]

Hey, Rovers are not bad... As long as you stay away from the Freelander and the old P38 Range Rovers with wiring issues.

No, they're all turds in shiny clothing. I worked on them at the dealer level. Computer software and scan tools ****. System driven diagnosics ****, it shouldn't take 20 mins. to get a DTC from the computer. You enter the VIN in the beginning and it then asks you about 20 questions about how it's equipped. Seriously? You can't get that from the VIN? How many have B4 armor fitting? 10 in the world maybe? Let's ask everytime. Don't forget you have to cycle the ignition after every question too. That's awesome.
LR3's go through rear latch cables and front A arm bushings like crazy. Disco's leak from everywhere. Heads leak notoriously. They're put together like a jigsaw puzzle, if you miss a step it's 10 steps back and retry again.

 

[ngk22r]

No, they're all turds in shiny clothing. I worked on them at the dealer level. Computer software and scan tools ****. System driven diagnosics ****, it shouldn't take 20 mins. to get a DTC from the computer. You enter the VIN in the beginning and it then asks you about 20 questions about how it's equipped. Seriously? You can't get that from the VIN? How many have B4 armor fitting? 10 in the world maybe? Let's ask everytime. Don't forget you have to cycle the ignition after every question too. That's awesome.
LR3's go through rear latch cables and front A arm bushings like crazy. Disco's leak from everywhere. Heads leak notoriously. They're put together like a jigsaw puzzle, if you miss a step it's 10 steps back and retry again.

If you just wanted to read a code, thats what the hand held scanner was for. The RDS system was a simpler system to work with, then when Ford got their hands on Rover, here came WDS and IDS systems. Though I would not own the LR3/4, or the AJ8 powered vehicles, I would take a Disco II. or Defender. Most of the oil leaks would be fixed once a skilled tech got in there and resealed the areas.

 

[mjn]

Well atleast no matter what the 5.4 and plug issue is gone. Still love my Ford's though and the new Eco Boost sounds like could be a hit, time will tell.

 

[Jeeper]

I have an 05 with 55k on it and I am waiting to tackle this. My friend just did his at 85k and didn't break any. He followed the latest TSB by using Motorcraft Carb cleaner, breaking them loose an 1/8 of a turn and soaking over night. He had the lisle tool on hand just in case.

 

[jhelrey]

Also run a carbon cleaner in the fuel for a few tanks. I have heard that also helps. It's part of the TSB

 

[Aberdale]

This is a regular topic item on the Ford truck forums.

I've worried about the plug change on my F150 for a while. Do I do it early, or wait until the 100,000 mile service recommendation? It's running great so far, so I've decided to quit worrying about it. Who knows what could happen between now and 100,000 miles? I may not even own the truck then.

The plugs may come out just fine in 100,000 miles, or they may be permanently welded to the head. I'll deal with it when the time comes. Who knows, there may even be a better TSB procedure by then. I hate to make extra work and aggravation for myself by changing plugs five times in the meantime if I don't need to.

Dale

 

[jeffk14]

I have an 05 with 55k on it and I am waiting to tackle this. My friend just did his at 85k and didn't break any. He followed the latest TSB by using Motorcraft Carb cleaner, breaking them loose an 1/8 of a turn and soaking over night. He had the lisle tool on hand just in case.

Maybe there's something magic about the MC carb cleaner or maybe your friend got lucky. I don't know.

In my earlier post, I said I followed the TSB to the letter. What I actually did was read and re-read all three revisions of the TSB multiple times and used a "composite" of the three, going above and beyond on each step.

I started off early in the morning with a stone-cold engine and used Aero Kroil after breaking the plugs 1/8 turn. I let 'em sit 3 hours, "wiggled" 'em and gave 'em another shot of Kroil. I wasn't worried about hydraulic lock, because I knew I was going to spin the engine over with all the plugs removed before I put everything back together. Waited 2 more hours, wiggled 'em some more and that's when the breaking began.

The Lisle tool is great though. You just have to get the "feel" right when using the extractor piece in order to engage enough threads in the broken plug piece without wringing the end of the tool off. I've heard of that happening.

I also used great care with a strong flashlight and a mirror to make sure I vacuumed all shards of porcelain out of the spark plug wells before I did the final extraction, so no chips would fall down into the cylinder.

FWIW, if anybody is in the South Metro Atlanta area and doesn't want to tackle this job themselves, I can do it. Just PM me.

 

[Deafautotech]

sell it and move on.
I sell a lisle kit every week. everyone has a trick, but none are fail proof.
Even the ford guys cant get it done.

I has two kits as one kit has used a lot and stripped the pusher tool out as one tech did not put lube in and seized. But lisle rep told me to go napa for warranty.. I has been doing it for few years and has no problems even other ford teches has me to do it...

 

[allinon72]

This is a big issue with the 4.6s in the 05-09 Mustang as well.

 

[wafrederick]

Ford made changes to the plugs at least 3 times and the spark plugs are made by Champion,not Autolite.Change them before 100,000 miles,makes it much easier to change the plugs.

 

[Wakefield]

To mention the Triton/Ford spark plug stuff again I noticed that some of the popular do it yourself car books in the library don't mention that there is anything weird or peculiar about changing the plugs in such things as late model F150's,I think the average Joe Trucker who starts out to change his plugs in his driveway in his Triton might be in for a nasty surprise!!

 

[jeffk14]

Ford made changes to the plugs at least 3 times and the spark plugs are made by Champion,not Autolite.Change them before 100,000 miles,makes it much easier to change the plugs.

The aftermarket Champions are the 7989 plugs. Sure, they're one-piece but they're not long-life plugs. They're also almost double the cost of Motorcraft plugs. I went back in with OEM Motorcraft and used the hi-temp anti-seize.

Motorcraft; half the cost, twice the plug life. Two-piece plug that can break off but anti-seize should prevent problems.

Champion; twice the cost, half the plug life.

I just did the math. Not to mention that the plugs are a ***** to change, even if they DON'T break off. I don't want to be doing that job any more often than I have to.

To mention the Triton/Ford spark plug stuff again I noticed that some of the popular do it yourself car books in the library don't mention that there is anything weird or peculiar about changing the plugs in such things as late model F150's,I think the average Joe Trucker who starts out to change his plugs in his driveway in his Triton might be in for a nasty surprise!!

^^Yerp!^^

 

[allinon72]

The consensus amongst Mustang guys is the Autolite HT1 plug is the best replacement of the stock Motorcraft plugs. The Champion is not very favored.

 

[wafrederick]

Even the triton engines go through coils with the coil on plug ignition system.Had a 1999 Expedition do this,first it was the #2 coil that went bad and came back 2 days later.#3 coil was bad which came up with missfire codes P0302 and P0303.

 

[vssjim]

I know of lots of use of the Champion improved plug and no problems, Fords also have alot of coil failures so Champion plugs amy get blamed for coil failure that is not a Champion problem

 

[Kenwc]

Even the triton engines go through coils with the coil on plug ignition system.Had a 1999 Expedition do this,first it was the #2 coil that went bad and came back 2 days later.#3 coil was bad which came up with missfire codes P0302 and P0303.

I have a Triton in an E-150 conversion that lost #4 this way while I was out of town. Had it fixed at a dealership and it's been fine since. Is it just a matter of time for the rest? Reckon I should have them all replaced before I get stuck again? 170K miles and runs like new.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

thank the heavens the realists in the world are still around ..
the Heaps of praise for the mechanical abortions from dearborn these days is nauseating
coming to you from occupied territory of GOVERNMENT MOTORS
the biggest government seizure of business ever

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

I know of lots of use of the Champion improved plug and no problems, Fords also have alot of coil failures so Champion plugs amy get blamed for coil failure that is not a Champion problem

champion plugs have been a problem since we went to computer controlled multiple coil ignition in 1984 -we call it flashover

 

[vssjim]

champion plugs have been a problem since we went to computer controlled multiple coil ignition in 1984 -we call it flashover

I really have not had trouble with any brand of plugs overall, had some race series autolites that when they started to plate them the overplated the threads on them so everybody can have a problem. We have used alot NGK Champion ND plugs and no problems and install them daily. Also as a side note Motorcrafts number system they had was awful and the new system means nothing atleast autolite used numbers you could learn.

 

[wafrederick]

Ford pulled this too and found out this recently.2005 to 2007 fullsize trucks have front composite rotors and calipers.Rotors are $300.00 a piece with the wheelbearing molded in.Says onthe wheelbearing,the axle nut is not reusable and has to be replaced with a new axle nut.Ammco makes the special adaptors as a kit for $329.00 to turn these rotors on their brake lathe