Forum for cottage owners?
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General discussion. I’m considering buying a cottage/cabin in northern Michigan. I want to get ideas of what to expect, learn from others mistakes, find ways to turn on/off utilities when not in use. It certainly isn’t the same as a primary home that is being used all the time. Thanks for the reply!
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Squashfest81
Well-known member
The google may help with specific forums.
My father installed a large electronically operated valve to shut the water off in his beach house. When he leaves he just tosses the switch in the kitchen. When he arrives he throws the switch and you hear the system pressurize.
He doesn’t drain the system as he uses it all year, but it gives him peace of mind when he’s not there.
Maybe this can become the “let’s talk second home prep” thread?
My father installed a large electronically operated valve to shut the water off in his beach house. When he leaves he just tosses the switch in the kitchen. When he arrives he throws the switch and you hear the system pressurize.
He doesn’t drain the system as he uses it all year, but it gives him peace of mind when he’s not there.
Maybe this can become the “let’s talk second home prep” thread?
Bad Eye Bill
Well-known member
We have dealt with seasonal cottages and beach houses for years. Every year the water gets turned on in Mid/late April and turned off around Columbus day week-end. Drains and toilets get kerosene put in them to stop any fumes. Fridge gets unplugged and the fridge doors are left open.
We also try to get rid of any non-canned food that would attract vermin.
You can come back to find that you have had a rodent problem, even with taking these precautions.
We also try to get rid of any non-canned food that would attract vermin.
You can come back to find that you have had a rodent problem, even with taking these precautions.
Bretny
Well-known member
Im a member at a offgrid (before it was cool) cabin. Hand pump water in the kitchen, propane lights and out house. No tv, no cell service and no need for electricity.
Leaving requires the handle to be pushed up on the well pump and the gas shut off... Thats all. Same to come back to it but priming of the pump is needed. Some times simple is better. Yet we still take hot showers and have plenty to do.
Leaving requires the handle to be pushed up on the well pump and the gas shut off... Thats all. Same to come back to it but priming of the pump is needed. Some times simple is better. Yet we still take hot showers and have plenty to do.
EVOLVO
Well-known member
Wow, I never heard of that. Won't you smell Kerosene? It's not environmentally friendly to put Kero down a drain either, septic or public! It's my understanding that J traps prevent fumes, that's what they're for, and water in the bowl stops fumes, too.
Bretny
Well-known member
Thats the first i have ever heard of kerosene being used like that too. Windshield washer fluid is $2 a gal, dosnt smell and has to be more eco and septic friendly than a combustable fuel.
finn
Well-known member
Plus, rv antifreeze costs half of the price of kerosene.
We lived some 400 miles south of our cottage for almost 25 years before we moved up here full time.
From experience, insulate well and keep the heat set to the mid forties during the winter. Drain the pipes and fill the traps and toilet tank with even antifreeze as a precaution. Remember, diluted rv antifreeze will freeze solid if the temperature drops far enough, so plunge the traps.
If you don’t keep some heat in the building, be prepared to repair the pipes in the spring, as a rupture in an inadequacy drained pipe is inevitable.
We lived some 400 miles south of our cottage for almost 25 years before we moved up here full time.
From experience, insulate well and keep the heat set to the mid forties during the winter. Drain the pipes and fill the traps and toilet tank with even antifreeze as a precaution. Remember, diluted rv antifreeze will freeze solid if the temperature drops far enough, so plunge the traps.
If you don’t keep some heat in the building, be prepared to repair the pipes in the spring, as a rupture in an inadequacy drained pipe is inevitable.
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ratdoggy
Well-known member
Can't you use a couple gallons of RV antifreeze?
johnnyradiant
Well-known member
Only problem with water in a trap for long periods is evaporation.
Kerosene seems a bit extreme.
finn
Well-known member
Plus, every antifreeze costs half of the price of kerosene.
We lived some 400 miles south of our cottage for almost 25 years before we moved up here full time.
From experience, insulate well and keep the heat set to the mid forties during the winter. Drain the pipes and fill the traps and toilet tank with even antifreeze as a precaution. Remember, diluted every antifreeze will freeze solid if the temperature drops far enough, so plunge the traps.
If you don’t keep s
We lived some 400 miles south of our cottage for almost 25 years before we moved up here full time.
From experience, insulate well and keep the heat set to the mid forties during the winter. Drain the pipes and fill the traps and toilet tank with even antifreeze as a precaution. Remember, diluted every antifreeze will freeze solid if the temperature drops far enough, so plunge the traps.
If you don’t keep s
I’m not finding a property that suits my needs yet. I’m a huge fan of the radiant floor heat in my garage floor. I believe it’s super efficient and would prefer to update or build from scratch to use this heat source. From a home design I’m thinking cabin. Lots of wood, beams, light, standing seam steel roof. Of course lots of storage. My wife doesn’t want a shouse/shed house. I’d prefer a 40x60 building with tall garage space as a basement and living space above. Preferably a location built into a slope with the garage space on the lower level so there is entry to the living space on grade. If I do something like this, construction materials and design help from experience would be great. So far, off to a good start. Thanks for all this input.
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Voi
Well-known member
I am in the process of building a lake cabin in the Black Hills here in South Dakota. It's all dried in and I have a shower, toilet and rigged up kitchen. I do have a mini split installed now but haven't scheduled an electrician to come out and hook it up. Far from done but much more useful than the 5th wheel toy hauler we had parked there previously.
I have a 12' x 8' area set aside for bathroom, water heater, washing machine, and a large kitchen sink. Only that area will be heated during the winter with radiant electric heaters so I'm hoping for minimal winterization.
Our cabin is only 32x20. There is a 10x11 sleeping loft that only has a 3' to 5' ceiling height for my kids. Below that is a bedroom that will have one entire wall that can open accordion style and there will be a queen sized murphy bed that can be flipped up during the day to increase useful square footage. So around 500 square feet of open space to hang out in when the weather is nasty.
It's small but I just wanted something a bit bigger and more useful than these 400 square foot Park Model cabins you see everywhere. I also wanted less issues with winterization and rodent infestations. I also wanted to come in cheaper per square foot than a Park Model or anther large RV. Oh and something that wouldn't depreciate like a Park Model or RV.
I feel like there are GJ members with cabins or lake properties up in the UP. I'd maybe start another thread like "Northern Michigan Cottage" in Free Parking and see if some of them chime in.
I found other forums when I started this process but none of them seemed worth registering for.
tomroblee
Well-known member
We life in central Indiana with a country place on some acreage in SW Indiana.
Our first big issue was security. A house that is obvious unoccupied for extended periods is a good target. After we installed a monitored security system, the thieves have avoided our place for a dozen years.
Shutting down the house for winter requires some thought. Our place is all electric (no gas available). The utility rate structure requires a person to pay the equivalent of the minimum year round---even if you turn off the power during the winter. We liked the idea of leaving power on for security lights, power for the security system, and a freezer.
Our house is a 36' x 48 footprint built with 12/12 pitch attic trusses to yield an 18' x 64' upstairs. About half of the first floor is garage and the other half is living area. We had the house built with 2" x 6" walls, and good insulation. We are getting older and spend little time there during the winter. When we leave, we turn the thermostats down to 62 degrees, turn off the water, and lock the door. I would estimate that our yearly heating bill is only about $350 to $400. To us, it is worth that amount to avoid winterizing.
We had separate heat pump heating systems installed for each floor. This solved some ductwork issues and allows one system to be a back-up in case the other breaks down.
Cultivating a friendly trustworthy full time neighbor to keep an eye on the place makes sleeping much easier when you are away.
Few "young" folks can afford what you are wanting. If you are building, plan for some physical decline while you own the property. Low maintenance is a must. Wide hallways, wide doorways, lever door handles, wide stairways with minimum slope and good handrails, bathrooms large enough to accommodate walkers/wheel chairs make sense even when you are able bodied.
Everyone loves the look of a log cabin high ceilings and windows, etc. Before you commit to them, consider the maintenance issues associated with them.
Make sure that your house is designed to best use the land you purchase. Huge windows are best when they give you a good view and are properly oriented toward the sun. (Catching the south sun is great on a winter day. Catching the west sun may be less appealing on a hot summer afternoon. If you spend part of the winter in the house, having the snow slide off you metal roof into a huge pile in front of your garage door isn't much fun.)
Our first big issue was security. A house that is obvious unoccupied for extended periods is a good target. After we installed a monitored security system, the thieves have avoided our place for a dozen years.
Shutting down the house for winter requires some thought. Our place is all electric (no gas available). The utility rate structure requires a person to pay the equivalent of the minimum year round---even if you turn off the power during the winter. We liked the idea of leaving power on for security lights, power for the security system, and a freezer.
Our house is a 36' x 48 footprint built with 12/12 pitch attic trusses to yield an 18' x 64' upstairs. About half of the first floor is garage and the other half is living area. We had the house built with 2" x 6" walls, and good insulation. We are getting older and spend little time there during the winter. When we leave, we turn the thermostats down to 62 degrees, turn off the water, and lock the door. I would estimate that our yearly heating bill is only about $350 to $400. To us, it is worth that amount to avoid winterizing.
We had separate heat pump heating systems installed for each floor. This solved some ductwork issues and allows one system to be a back-up in case the other breaks down.
Cultivating a friendly trustworthy full time neighbor to keep an eye on the place makes sleeping much easier when you are away.
Few "young" folks can afford what you are wanting. If you are building, plan for some physical decline while you own the property. Low maintenance is a must. Wide hallways, wide doorways, lever door handles, wide stairways with minimum slope and good handrails, bathrooms large enough to accommodate walkers/wheel chairs make sense even when you are able bodied.
Everyone loves the look of a log cabin high ceilings and windows, etc. Before you commit to them, consider the maintenance issues associated with them.
Make sure that your house is designed to best use the land you purchase. Huge windows are best when they give you a good view and are properly oriented toward the sun. (Catching the south sun is great on a winter day. Catching the west sun may be less appealing on a hot summer afternoon. If you spend part of the winter in the house, having the snow slide off you metal roof into a huge pile in front of your garage door isn't much fun.)
Angelfire
Well-known member
Here's my experience on the ownership of a remote, 2nd home cabin. One of the first things I did was added a drain such that I could drain the entire house. So now when I arrive, I close the drain and turn on the water. Reverse that when I leave. Open the faucets to let air into the lines so they drain. I turn off my electric water heater (and it mostly drains out as well). I installed a wifi thermostat and have it set to 40F. It's great to be able to check on temp in the house when it gets sub zero up there (and turning the heat on before arriving is pretty good too!). I also open up all the cabinet drawers under the sinks to let the heat from the furnace get into those spaces better. RV (non-toxic) antifreeze goes into every p-trap as well as the toilet bowl and tank. Along the way, I insulated the entire crawl space as it was a bad source of cold into the house. I also have installed a hub that controls a number of lights so when I arrive in the dark, I can turn them on so I don't break my neck getting to the front door.
Before I had the wifi thermostat and heater, the cabin was just left to freeze so hence my first order of business was to get the water/drain setup in place.
Otherwise, there's not much else to worry about in our location. I will eventually add a few cameras just so we can see the wildlife that visits but haven't put much effort into deciding on that project just yet. Oh, and I gave a key to my neighbor....this was, well key. One night whilst I'm sitting in Ireland, I notice my temp is like 20 inside the cabin. I emailed him and he was able to get in to troubleshoot/fix the thermostat. Was a big help! So yeah, make friends with any neighbors you might have....they'll be invaluable.
Enjoy!
Cheers.
Before I had the wifi thermostat and heater, the cabin was just left to freeze so hence my first order of business was to get the water/drain setup in place.
Otherwise, there's not much else to worry about in our location. I will eventually add a few cameras just so we can see the wildlife that visits but haven't put much effort into deciding on that project just yet. Oh, and I gave a key to my neighbor....this was, well key. One night whilst I'm sitting in Ireland, I notice my temp is like 20 inside the cabin. I emailed him and he was able to get in to troubleshoot/fix the thermostat. Was a big help! So yeah, make friends with any neighbors you might have....they'll be invaluable.
Enjoy!
Cheers.
Great replies! Thanks everyone. Takeaways:
- lots of insulation
- easy to drain water lines
- security cameras/ WiFi
- watchful neighbors
- space to age gracefully
I like the idea of a floor plan design that has the water lines all located in the middle of the home to keep the utilities concentrated. Kitchen and bath back to back, and bathrooms stacked on top of each other. Not sure if that is really feasible the way I want a lower level garage space. Keep the great comments coming! I’m learning a lot.
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- lots of insulation
- easy to drain water lines
- security cameras/ WiFi
- watchful neighbors
- space to age gracefully
I like the idea of a floor plan design that has the water lines all located in the middle of the home to keep the utilities concentrated. Kitchen and bath back to back, and bathrooms stacked on top of each other. Not sure if that is really feasible the way I want a lower level garage space. Keep the great comments coming! I’m learning a lot.
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spudley
Well-known member
Well done sir! You may be the first poster in GJ's history to use the word "whilst" in an answer.
But yes, get to know your neighbors. Mine have been great and also saved me as I also lost heat. The damage was limited to a cracked faucet sprayer.
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
We have a cabin in central Saskatchewan. It can be a great experience and a PITA, expensive, fun, labour intensive and a blessing.
Even if your cabin is for year round use, you more than likely use it less than you would like.
Spring brings another yard to maintain, water leaks to mend and any other details that take there toll during another winter. As you get older these tasks that used to be a minor hardship now take on a more exacting toll. The politics at the lake is similar to a small town.
Next year I find out we need to upgrade our septic tank due to deterioration as the one that has been in the ground for over 40 years. That cost alone will likely be around $8k as it needs to be moved for future building requirements.
Taxes and other services don’t increase with the same % as a fixed income, which you will likely have in the future. I threaten to sell due to the work load that an older building requires. My daughters and wife help out when possible. Not interested with monetary help unless they were to win the lottery.
As for Kerosene, no one I know uses it and why would you use a flammable liquid. We mostly use RV antifreeze which has the same capability as premixed vehicle antifreeze. You just have to take out as much standing water as possible. All P traps filled with a couple of cupfulls. I am talking full turn down for winter, meaning all pipes, water heaters all drained. Windshield washer will work in a cabin that is used year around but not heated when not in use. What happens with windshield fluid will just gel up until heated up again. But not a good substitute for RV fluid in a full winter shut down.
Our season runs from around mid May to late September. About 30years ago a buddy took his perceived costs and came up with it costing him $14K a year to run his cabin, 30 years ago I repeat. He took the property worth and what he would get for it, running cabin expenses, fuel to drive to cabin. He went as far as to add the additional booze, food etc that would be consumed by guests. I could check with what he says today but he talked himself into selling years ago.
Another down side is that you will likely not check out other venues in the summer due to being tied to your investment. The flip side is you can have friends and family visit you at your cabin and everyone generally has a great time.
Would we sell not likely, just don’t tell the kids, I need a little something to ***** about later. We likely will rebuild so I can enjoy a few maintenance years before too much more time passes. I just will leave a future lotto winning to help run the place so the kids can enjoy themselves.
I will place some pics of a water problem that flooded the crawl space and a power pole replacement that kind of put a kink in a couple of different weekends. But will post some pics of why we enjoy our time there as well.
Even if your cabin is for year round use, you more than likely use it less than you would like.
Spring brings another yard to maintain, water leaks to mend and any other details that take there toll during another winter. As you get older these tasks that used to be a minor hardship now take on a more exacting toll. The politics at the lake is similar to a small town.
Next year I find out we need to upgrade our septic tank due to deterioration as the one that has been in the ground for over 40 years. That cost alone will likely be around $8k as it needs to be moved for future building requirements.
Taxes and other services don’t increase with the same % as a fixed income, which you will likely have in the future. I threaten to sell due to the work load that an older building requires. My daughters and wife help out when possible. Not interested with monetary help unless they were to win the lottery.
As for Kerosene, no one I know uses it and why would you use a flammable liquid. We mostly use RV antifreeze which has the same capability as premixed vehicle antifreeze. You just have to take out as much standing water as possible. All P traps filled with a couple of cupfulls. I am talking full turn down for winter, meaning all pipes, water heaters all drained. Windshield washer will work in a cabin that is used year around but not heated when not in use. What happens with windshield fluid will just gel up until heated up again. But not a good substitute for RV fluid in a full winter shut down.
Our season runs from around mid May to late September. About 30years ago a buddy took his perceived costs and came up with it costing him $14K a year to run his cabin, 30 years ago I repeat. He took the property worth and what he would get for it, running cabin expenses, fuel to drive to cabin. He went as far as to add the additional booze, food etc that would be consumed by guests. I could check with what he says today but he talked himself into selling years ago.
Another down side is that you will likely not check out other venues in the summer due to being tied to your investment. The flip side is you can have friends and family visit you at your cabin and everyone generally has a great time.
Would we sell not likely, just don’t tell the kids, I need a little something to ***** about later. We likely will rebuild so I can enjoy a few maintenance years before too much more time passes. I just will leave a future lotto winning to help run the place so the kids can enjoy themselves.
I will place some pics of a water problem that flooded the crawl space and a power pole replacement that kind of put a kink in a couple of different weekends. But will post some pics of why we enjoy our time there as well.
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Note - I don't do the 'winterization' of the plumbing so I could be getting the Kerosene bit very wrong.
As for insulate . . . the cottages in this part of town are seasonal and don't have any insulation in them at all. They are meant for late Spring to early fall - that's it.
IT very well could be RV antifreeze - but it isn't just water.
edit: I did a bit more research and it is probably RV antifreeze. I read a lot of Land Rover magazines and in them they talk about farm diesel and farm kerosene being dyed red in the UK. But here in the states its blue!
As for insulate . . . the cottages in this part of town are seasonal and don't have any insulation in them at all. They are meant for late Spring to early fall - that's it.
IT very well could be RV antifreeze - but it isn't just water.
edit: I did a bit more research and it is probably RV antifreeze. I read a lot of Land Rover magazines and in them they talk about farm diesel and farm kerosene being dyed red in the UK. But here in the states its blue!
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