Found a Zinsco Panel in Use-What Now?

[Model A Fan]

I was visiting family and checked out the panel to see if expansion to the outlets in the garage was possible. When i peeked behind the panel door, I found this bad boy.

Reading about it online, there seems to be some alarmist pages run by electrical companies basically saying you need to replace it yesterday. Surely they're trying to get business by using a scare tactic (to a certain degree), but it seems the general consensus is to replace it as they're outdated and the company went out of business, so their products are obsolete and unable to be expanded.

What should I tell my family member to do about this panel? There are two of them, one solely for the furnace and furnace blowers and one for the house. I'm thinking replacement is really the only route for them to go at this juncture. Having an electrician do it instead of DIY seems prudent as well. Any idea on a ballpark cost? I'd lean them toward Square D Homeline as they're very user friendly for later modification and are reasonably priced.

Thank you for the help and advice! They have an infant and one on the way, so safety is of high concern for us.

 

[mike93lx]

You now have to preemptively burn the house down. Take the bull by the horns

Full panel swap out is going to be at least a few grand. Get some quotes and go from there.

If your family is like mine, they'll argue that it's working fine and you're being silly. At least that is the response I got when I opened a panel at my folk's and saw 4 different brand breakers and 30's feeding #12 circuits.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Zinsco is hot garbage. ive seen breakers not trip when they should have

they also burn on the buss bars after they expand and contract and end up with poor connections.

cannot get OEM replacements. have to get expensive classified breakers made by third parties

 

[Copymutt]

So now you get to step up to arc fault breakers$$

 

[SlappyWhite]

No experience with those panels but I have been in similar friends and family situations with respect to dangerous installs and outdated or dangerous panels.

I tell them:
IMO the panel (or XYZ) is dangerous (or out of date, depends on the actual situation) and I will not touch it.
They will need to call a local electrician but they should be prepared to be told the panel (or XYZ) needs to be replaced.

I lose zero sleeps after the above. I am always willing to help family and friends and the above is what I would consider helping in this context.

 

[PCustoms]

Zinsco is hot garbage. ive seen breakers not trip when they should have

I had never heard of the name, but had an issue in an apartment where the "handyman" botched the water heater swap and left a really ****** connection that was slowly shorting to ground due to movement.

I had been hearing it for a week, once I finally figured out what it was it was glowing (dark closet at 5am so I stood out) and clearly shorting to ground. Breaker of course didn't trip.

"handyman" fixed it, until I sent a nice email to the corporate office explaining my research into Zinsco, and the fact that I was friends with the electrical inspector for the next town over...

 

[MovingAlong]

What should I tell my family member to do about this panel?

Explain the facts, your research, your concerns. They can decide what to do.

Any idea on a ballpark cost?

This Old House says $1300-$3000.

They have an infant and one on the way, so safety is of high concern for us.

You owe them information, a warning. And if you are really concerned - maybe even help by finding a local electrician and gathering the bids. Make it as easy of a process as possible for young parents, theirs is a stressful job.

 

[nadogail]

In my limited experience, I have never heard them called Zinsco panels: they have always been called "Fu**ing Zinscos".

I do have it on pretty good authority, that the circuit breakers don't open when overloaded, providing almost no protection.

Fortunatly I don't have any installed at any of my properties.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

In my limited experience, I have never heard them called Zinsco panels: they have always been called "Fu**ing Zinscos".

I do have it on pretty good authority, that the circuit breakers don't open when overloaded, providing almost no protection.

Fortunatly I don't have any installed at any of my properties.

i call them shitsco

 

[Norcal]

So now you get to step up to arc fault breakers$$

Not on a panel replacement, only if stuff is added. I would be very hesitant to call Afci's a "step up".

 

[walta]

First off when you tell them that panel the panel that has served them without and problem is dangerous junk. They are not going to listen and unlikely to spend money replacing the panel.

Ask them if the lights ever flicker? Wiggle the breaker and see if you can make the light flicker. If they don’t flicker yet it seems unlikely that anything is going to convince them. Plant the seed that flickering lights are the warning signal that a house fire is coming soon and do not ignore what may be first and maybe only warning. Do half the light all stop working at the same time?

Sadly 75% of people have no way to deal with an unexpected $1000 expense. Did you test the fire alarms? On second thought just buy them a new set the ones they are using are likely 20 years old and past their useful life and the fact you spent the money might convince them that you are serious.



Walta

 

[Model A Fan]

Thank you guys for the advice and information. I've been on a spiral down the rabbit hole of YouTube now, and can say that while it hasn't had any issues (knocks on wood), it would be better to get it replaced. They just got a new water pipe due to tree roots destroying the one that was there to the tune of $9K. One of the videos said to save up to replace it before it becomes an issue, and I'll call around for some quotes to help get the ball rolling. Again, thank you for the help, this forum is excellent!

 

[honcho]

There are is a 30% federal tax credit up to $600 for Electrical panel upgrades. If the cost is $2000 or more, then they would qualify for the max credit of $600.

 

[mike93lx]

There are is a 30% federal tax credit up to $600 for Electrical panel upgrades. If the cost is $2000 or more, then they would qualify for the max credit of $600.

Its not just for panel upgrades... It's related to efficiency improvements, so a panel on its own won't qualify
The 25C Energy Efficient Home Improvement Tax Credit provides a tax credit for eligible electrical panels (up to 30% of project costs, capped at $600) when the panel is installed with—and enables the use of—qualified appliances like heat pumps and heat pump water heaters

Energy Efficient Home Improvement Credit | Internal Revenue Service

If you make home improvements for energy efficiency, you may qualify for an annual tax credit up to $3,200.

www.irs.gov

Costs of electrical components needed to support residential energy property, including panelboards, sub-panelboards, branch circuits, and feeders, also qualify for the credit if they meet the National Electric Code and have a capacity of 200 amps or more. There is a limit of $600 per item.

 

[honcho]

Its not just for panel upgrades... It's related to efficiency improvements, so a panel on its own won't qualify
The 25C Energy Efficient Home Improvement Tax Credit provides a tax credit for eligible electrical panels (up to 30% of project costs, capped at $600) when the panel is installed with—and enables the use of—qualified appliances like heat pumps and heat pump water heaters

Energy Efficient Home Improvement Credit | Internal Revenue Service

If you make home improvements for energy efficiency, you may qualify for an annual tax credit up to $3,200.

www.irs.gov

Costs of electrical components needed to support residential energy property, including panelboards, sub-panelboards, branch circuits, and feeders, also qualify for the credit if they meet the National Electric Code and have a capacity of 200 amps or more. There is a limit of $600 per item.

Also, depending on their income and location, they may qualify under the HEEHRA incentives that are so incredibly slow in being rolled out.

 

[mike93lx]

Also, depending on their income and location, they may qualify under the HEEHRA incentives that are so incredibly slow in being rolled out.

There are some pretty good incentives for even moderate income households (and what many would call high income since it goes up to 150% of area median income) in there. Worth checking out for sure, but I don't know if a standalone panel swap would qualify

 

[Cc_windsurfer]

Had a house with one of these panels for 30 years, same panels in the rest of the neighborhood. Nobody in our area had a fire attributed to use of these panels.

Problem is that high contact resistance to the plated bus bars causes the breakers to get hot and deform when used with high currents for long times, which was not our use case. The heat causes the plastic breaker case to deform, which could prevent tripping resulting in non-trips when a circuit is overloaded. This failure mode also prevents you from manually shutting off breakers.

To mitigate risk,inspect the panel regularly including switching breakers to assure proper action.
Also, obviously, don't overload your circuits.

 

[sparky 1971]

Not on a panel replacement, only if stuff is added. I would be very hesitant to call Afci's a "step up".

There is one jurisdiction I occasionally work in that considers a panel replacement to be a modification of the circuit and requires AFCI "protection" on the existing circuits due to 210.12(D). I've never changed a panel there, and to be honest don't think I've ever pulled a permit there either because of the stupid shi...stuff I've heard about.