Found at second hand store
- Thread starter Empty Pockets
- Start date
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
C&M Chicago and Milwaukee Railroad valve wrench
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-4-V...764136?hash=item4d9c6b5ee8:g:Cq8AAOSwtoBdhpfL
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-4-V...764136?hash=item4d9c6b5ee8:g:Cq8AAOSwtoBdhpfL
OP
Empty Pockets
Well-known member
Thanks. It looked interesting, so it has a new home
bubinga
Well-known member
thehorse13
Well-known member
Old railroad tools are really cool in my opinion. I'm partial to them because of my family history associated with the Erie railroad.
I'd be celebrating that find. Nice grab.
I'd be celebrating that find. Nice grab.
OP
Empty Pockets
Well-known member
what's funny, it was just an add-on, i also picked up an SK deep socket, 3-lectrolite tappet wrenches, an lectrolite DBE wrench, an SK Combo, a western auto combo wrench and a Barcalo-Buffalo offset DBE. all for $5.00 Not a bad haul
So do you maybe have a reference a little more convincing than an ebay link? Was the Chicago Milwaukee & St Paul Railroad even historically connected with the Chicago & Milwaukee Railway? ...I guess it wouldn't matter if you're just showing Railroad wrenches with similar initials as an example but the wrenches aren't a match either. Do you have examples of the the wrench style in the original post to this thread that are conclusively railroad wrenches that you could link to? Also, is there a specific "valve" you talking about on the train. Thanks.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Tools are marked C&M = Chicago and Milwaukee. Wrenches come in different sizes and styles for different applications. Would you expect there to only be one size, exactly like the one the OP posted?
No, I can't tell you which specific valve on which specific rail car these wrenches were used-or on which specific day.
So. let's go with maybe C&M= Craftsman and Matco.
Happy?
My post was as neutral as I could make it but apparently It wasn't enough. Someone might assume by your snarky/sarcastic, overly defensive response that you don't have any additional evidence. That doesn't mean that you're not right. It also doesn't mean that you can't site your sources...though it would have been better if you did. It's common on these boards to ask for or expect a little evidence or a line of reasoning behind opinion stated as facts. I obviously didn't say all RR wrenches should look exactly like the ones in that ebay link you posted, and it's not crazy for someone to know a specific application for a wrench.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
If I told you what time it was would you expect me to explain the specific tools the watchmaker used to repair my watch?
The specific application is for a valve. On a Chicago and Milwaukee rail car.
Most likely lefty-loosey, righty- tighty.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Empty Pockets,
What is the OAL of the wrench? And what are the openings?
It looks awfully short to be a RR wrench to me. Also, the ends are forged onto the shank with strange angles. And thirdly, it has the reinforced jaws more characteristic of machinery wrenches, tool post wrenches, and set screw wrenches.
The term "engineers'" wrench is attributed to power engineers (stationary or traveling, i.e. locomotive) and an engineers wrench is characteristically much longer with 15* angles. Prior to early 1900's it didn't even exist on engines or in roundhouses, when the only wrenches were monkey, pipe, screw, which were known to break, or alligator, which were known to round off nuts and ruin brass fasteners. Blacksmiths forged fixed wrenches as replacements for engineers and machinists.
Just my $.02. I could be wrong. It could be an anomaly.
The one possibility that jumps to my head for machinery wrenches is Curtis & Marble in Western Mass., which is in your general part of the country, too. But I don't know. They didn't make wrenches for sale, and I am leery of the fancy cast- or forged-in letters for an in-house wrench. So I am not totally sold on that, either.
EDIT: I take back that hedge. It was customary for outfits like Curtis & Marble, Crompton & Knowles, and others making machines for the textile industry to ship them out with wrenches for turning set-up and adjustment nuts. I have some.
Cool find either way.
What is the OAL of the wrench? And what are the openings?
It looks awfully short to be a RR wrench to me. Also, the ends are forged onto the shank with strange angles. And thirdly, it has the reinforced jaws more characteristic of machinery wrenches, tool post wrenches, and set screw wrenches.
The term "engineers'" wrench is attributed to power engineers (stationary or traveling, i.e. locomotive) and an engineers wrench is characteristically much longer with 15* angles. Prior to early 1900's it didn't even exist on engines or in roundhouses, when the only wrenches were monkey, pipe, screw, which were known to break, or alligator, which were known to round off nuts and ruin brass fasteners. Blacksmiths forged fixed wrenches as replacements for engineers and machinists.
Just my $.02. I could be wrong. It could be an anomaly.
The one possibility that jumps to my head for machinery wrenches is Curtis & Marble in Western Mass., which is in your general part of the country, too. But I don't know. They didn't make wrenches for sale, and I am leery of the fancy cast- or forged-in letters for an in-house wrench. So I am not totally sold on that, either.
EDIT: I take back that hedge. It was customary for outfits like Curtis & Marble, Crompton & Knowles, and others making machines for the textile industry to ship them out with wrenches for turning set-up and adjustment nuts. I have some.
Cool find either way.
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Bro that headscratch icon is fitting....If I told you what time it was would you expect me to explain the specific tools the watchmaker used to repair my watch?
What exactly are you doing with this statement? It's not an analogy...well maybe it was supposed to be one but your theoretical situation doesn't really parallel or have enough similarities to the original to work.....now if you told me what time it was and I asked how you knew and instead of showing me your watch you deflected.....
Before Alloy Artifacts and sites like GJ, the amount of misinformation about hand tools outside of the well documented and researched woodworking types was massive. It's not crazy for people who are interested in tool info and history to ask for SOME evidence so one can make up their mind as to the accuracy of said info. You answered the initial query as if you were sure but you never did make your case outside of the initials being the same. You realize if you present additional evidence we both win right?
I'm going to agree with Lugz on this one.
This cast wrench with the markings shown seems a lot more likely to be a machinery wrench of some sort.
Don't recall ever seeing a railroad wrench that was not forged, and then usually not drop forged using dies with integral markings, unless supplied by one of the major players, like Williams for example.
Never heard of Curtis and Marble until this reference, but it could be a reasonable hypothesis.
Do you know anything about them? Information is scarce
RTM
Well-known member
Lots of references in Google books, can give you age when they existed, plus minus about 10 years. Might find something useful by digging in, but I gotta walk the dogs.
Oldtuleguy
Well-known member
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That's pretty obscure
RTM
Well-known member
Unless someone is building a cotton mill, I’d say not gonna be much interest.