FPE Stab Lok panel/breaker

[gesoffen]

All right resident garage-a-holics and electricians, I have a question that I probably already know the answer too but figured I ought to complete my research and get other professional opinions.

As you might guess, my house, built in 1978, has a Federal Pacific Elec. Stab Lok 200AMP panel. I knew the basic issues with this panel when we bought the house in 2004 but decided to stick my head in the sand and blissfully ignore the overwhelming evidence that these breakers are unreliable at best. From what I've read, the more you trip a stab-lok breaker, the less likely it'll work in the future. I've had a few trip due to overloading a circuit that feeds my garage and the microwave and a half dozen other lights (thanks to the previous owner or builder). Found this out when the wife ran the microwave when I had my 110V compressor running.

Anyhow, I'm in the process of installing a 100A sub-panel to feed the garage and the future modifications/expansion of the space. With the general issues and the scarcity of 100A FPE breakers, my head was yanked out of the sand and forced to confront the decision to replace my main panel.

On to the questions:
1) Any 1st hand experience with FPE Stab Lok failures?
2) Any simple conversion kits out there?
3) I have a quote for a GE load center replacement as well as installing the already procured 100A GE subpanel of approx $1700. This includes the cost the new main panel, wiring to supply the sub-panel and permits. Does this sound reasonable for Northern Virginia?
4) Any pros/cons about the GE load centers?

Thanks in advance. Back to sticking my head in the sand.....

 

[Gary S]

I used to own a house that came with a FPE 100A panel. It was too small for my needs so I hired an electrician to add a 150A Cutler Hammer panel as the main panel and he put the old FPE on the Cutler Hammer as a sub-panel. The wiring in the FPE got very little use after that, and I had no problems with the FPE breakers even though I lived with it for almost 30 years.
I would be a lot less likely to use the FPE as your main than I was to keep my old one as a sub.
You are probably best off spending the big bucks now and getting rid of the FPE panel. It will hurt your wallet now, but you won't regret it later.

 

[mrb]

I would get rid of the FPE, whatever you do -dont run loads like welders through it.

What happens on these, is the little tabs on the breakers that stick into holes on the busbars dont make good contact and burn up. The front of the breaker will look fine, but the back will be all burned up. I replaced a FPE sub panel in a relatives house a couple months ago, one leg had the busbar all burned up behind the main breaker, and behind several other breakers. One breaker was melted into the panel and I couldnt get it out.

They also have problems tripping on overload.

 

[dstryr]

Because of the issues(and maybe others) that mrb pointed out, a few years ago our 600+ wholesale locations were forbidden by our owners from even selling currently-produced replacement breakers for FPE panels. Too much risk of being pulled into a product liability action. If it were mine, I would replace it.

To answer #3, Rewiring for a new panel is not always straight-forward. Because of the differences in panels the feeder and branch lines may not all be long enough to just re-land on the new main and branch breakers. I sell the stuff so an electrician who has does change-outs should be the one to analyze the $$.

#4, Square D, Cutler-Hammer, Siemens/ITE, and GE are by far the most common load center manufacturers. Each contractor has preferences and any brand should work well. If I were putting a panel in my own home I would choose Square D QO or Cutler-Hammer CH, but I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if my house had a GE in it. Good workmanship, tight connections, etc. would be my first concern.

 

[BigChevy80]

I'm not an electrician, but have replaced a few panels. I've seen 2 FPE panels that looked fine on the outside, but were burnt to a crisp on the inside.

Good rule of thumb: of it's made by FPE or Zinsco, TRASH IT!!

 

[JCoggin]

I have worked in the electrical wholesale industry for over 20 years. Cutler Hammer CH or Square D QO only for me, end of discussion.....

 

[JCoggin]

Because of the issues(and maybe others) that mrb pointed out, a few years ago our 600+ wholesale locations were forbidden by our owners from even selling currently-produced replacement breakers for FPE panels. Too much risk of being pulled into a product liability action. If it were mine, I would replace it.

To answer #3, Rewiring for a new panel is not always straight-forward. Because of the differences in panels the feeder and branch lines may not all be long enough to just re-land on the new main and branch breakers. I sell the stuff so an electrician who has does change-outs should be the one to analyze the $$.

#4, Square D, Cutler-Hammer, Siemens/ITE, and GE are by far the most common load center manufacturers. Each contractor has preferences and any brand should work well. If I were putting a panel in my own home I would choose Square D QO or Cutler-Hammer CH, but I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if my house had a GE in it. Good workmanship, tight connections, etc. would be my first concern.

Who do you work for???

 

[tfi racing]

Have your contractor check with his local Cutler Hammer wholesaler,they do make conversion kits that can be installed in the "tub" of your existing panel after removing all the guts.It may be easier/faster to just replace the whole thing,but worth looking into if it is in an awkward location or mounting position.The one drawback is that they usually have to be ordered and may take some time to get it.

 

[mrb]

those retrofit panels and covers are EXPENSIVE. Theyre really only good for recessed panels in walls with plaster finish, wallpaper, a slab of travertine, things like that which cannot be disturbed or repaired.

 

[Terry Kennedy]

On to the questions:
1) Any 1st hand experience with FPE Stab Lok failures?
2) Any simple conversion kits out there?
3) I have a quote for a GE load center replacement as well as installing the already procured 100A GE subpanel of approx $1700. This includes the cost the new main panel, wiring to supply the sub-panel and permits. Does this sound reasonable for Northern Virginia?
4) Any pros/cons about the GE load centers?

1) Yes. It wasn't pleasant. A 20A 220V FPE breaker failed to trip on a dead short, as did the 60A FPE main in the same panel and a 125A FPE zone breaker in the zone panel. The first breaker that tripped was the 225A floor feeder breaker, which was a GE.
2) There are conversion kits, but they don't work for all FPE panels (the panel has to be new enough to have adequate wire space inside). The conversion kits, being a limited market, are much more expensive than regular panels at the home center. [A 200A main 40-position Square D QO panel is $226 at Home Depot / Lowes.]
3) Can't say. My quotes here were for a lot more than that, but this is the big city.
4) My personal preference is Square D QO, but GE makes a fine panel and if you already have your GE sub-panel, commonality of breakers is good.

 

[gesoffen]

Thanks for the responses gents. The unanimous advice is to trash so I guess I can't keep my head in the ground any longer. The electrician doing the job likes GE and since I already have a GE sub-panel, that works for me. The panel is readily accessible as its in a small utility closet in an unfinished section of the basement.

I guess this would be a pretty good time to start mapping all the outlets and fixtures so I don't have to play the guessing game of which breaker covers what. This has been on my to do list for a long time but I've never had the motivation to do it.

Thanks again....

 

[dipper]

good job getting rid of the FPE panel. They were pretty bad. the risks are too great when you think of what can happen.

 

[Torque1st]

I have a 100A FPE main panel from 1962 and I check it every year or two. It is in fine shape and everything works. It will be replaced by a 200A Siemens main panel soon for an upgrade. The new main panel will feed another 200A Siemens subpanel in the shop through a 100A breaker. The subpanel 200A main breaker will act as a local disconnect.