FPE Stab-Lok panels

[wyliesdiesels]

I know theyve been discussed before In threads about other topics but i figured i would start a thread thats just about the panels...

Heres an article in the star-tribune from a few years ago about these panels...

http://m.startribune.com/fpe-stab-l...inspected-they-need-to-be-replaced/131912743/

If u have one of these garbage cans, replace it. Dont think twice.

 

[rburke65]

For 11 years I worked for a contractor and 98% of our electrical work was rewiring old house. Federal Pacific electrical panels and breakers always gave us grief. There is a reason they are not manufactured anymore. Be safe......."86" that puppy!

 

[Norcal]

FPE = Fisher Price Electric the Canadian Federal Pioneer did not have the same problem as the US ones.

 

[George in Rancho Cordova]

I thought Fisher Price made toys for toddlers.

 

[teamextreme]

FPE = Fisher Price Electric the Canadian Federal Pioneer did not have the same problem as the US ones.

I always referred to them as Fairly Poor Equipment. Hard to believe there's still some of that stuff out there that hasn't been replaced yet (or burned down).

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I thought Fisher Price made toys for toddlers.

I assume youre joking as Norcal's comment was a joke.

FPE stands for federal pacific electric

I always referred to them as Fairly Poor Equipment. Hard to believe there's still some of that stuff out there that hasn't been replaced yet (or burned down).

FPE's transformer division was bought by another company and are still in use and being manufactured to this day...I have not heard of any issues with their transformers...

 

[Norcal]

The only issues are with FPE's Stab-Lok panels & circuit breakers, the rest of their stuff is fine.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Last year, a buddy inherited a house that he just wanted to unload. The potential buyer commented about the load center. Yep, it was a FPE ! I told my buddy to have the buyer get a quote for replacing it and just knock that much off the price !

 

[dw1]

I just replaced an FPE panel last week, there are still quite a few of them in service today in some older neighborhoods around here. Usually the home inspector blasts them, my reply is "Google FPE" like the article Wylie stated.
Probably 6 months ago, I was in the local orange big box store and the attendent was trying to sell someone a wrong breaker for a FPE panel, after he left to check, I told the guy it wouldnt fit, but I had what he needed in my van, I gave him 4 20 amp 1p FPE, turned out he owned a local pizza place and gave me 2 free pizzas later that night. (HD does still sell FPE replacement breakers online)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I just replaced an FPE panel last week, there are still quite a few of them in service today in some older neighborhoods around here. Usually the home inspector blasts them, my reply is "Google FPE" like the article Wylie stated.
Probably 6 months ago, I was in the local orange big box store and the attendent was trying to sell someone a wrong breaker for a FPE panel, after he left to check, I told the guy it wouldnt fit, but I had what he needed in my van, I gave him 4 20 amp 1p FPE, turned out he owned a local pizza place and gave me 2 free pizzas later that night. (HD does still sell FPE replacement breakers online)

U shouldve given him a quote to replace that fire can!

 

[dw1]

U shouldve given him a quote to replace that fire can!

I discussed that with him, he claimed he had a bad breaker, which I told him to be very careful, he then asked if I liked pizza. The one I swapped out last week, was in very good condition, clean ect, if anyone ever needs FPE panels, panel guts or breakers, I have a few, I have thrown quite a few away over the years when I was out of storage space, now I will fill up the new barn for a while and probably throw away again a few years down the road.

 

[bonneyman]

FPE breakers.

About the only ones worse then them are the Zinsco mobile home breakers.

 

[slip knot]

it seems that every rental I buy has a FPE panel in it. I replace them ASAP but have gotten a pretty good collection of stab-loc breakers now. I was thinking about putting them on Clist. Those things are crazy expensive new, but would hate to know it burned someones house down later.

 

[sberry]

I got a bucket of them too. I also just replaced one and left it next to the new service and the inspector said, we call those "welders" I don't know what the actual statistics are but I had a bunch and they are gone now. I had a couple situations I wasn't sure the breaker tripped on thermal. The local jobber carried those for a long time and there is still a lot of them out there. I got another bud who is a master and he is rather ho hum about it, maybe after you see enough you get jaded but I think the real number might get stretched but they re even aging out now.
That stab was always kind of a pos, I never saw then arc up but had call a while back where someone fiddled with it and could only get " 110 out of a 220 breaker" ha

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

There was a bunch of "Super rare" fed pacific breakers as the guy called them on craigslist yesterday when I was trolling the building materials section.

 

[Jess]

The Canadian versions were made by Schnieder, the same company that makes (made?) Square D and others up here. I have had several FPE panels and never an issue. I don't know what the difference is between the equipment but its has obviously been an issue in the US.

 

[Norcal]

The Canadian versions were made by Schneider, the same company that makes (made?) Square D and others up here. I have had several FPE panels and never an issue. I don't know what the difference is between the equipment but its has obviously been an issue in the US.

Canukstani version is Federal Pioneer, US is FPE. Schneider discontinued Federal Pioneer from what I have heard.

 

[slow]

FPE was made from the 50's to the 80s that were unsafe.

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/fpe.aspx

Schneider purchased square D in 1991, so the 2 are not related.



Ryan

 

[Norcal]

FPE was made from the 50's to the 80s that were unsafe.

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/fpe.aspx

Schneider purchased square D in 1991, so the 2 are not related.



Ryan

The relation is that Schneider owned Federal Pioneer, a FPE twin, just does not have the same issues as FPE.

 

[Slowgsr]

Are we talking about the stab lock breakers still being sold today? The old push in style? I'm in Canada and it was mentioned we didn't have the issue up here.

May be our stricter qualification ratings, ie CSA, ULc, etc.

 

[NUTTSGT]

My garage had a FPE panel in it when we bought the place. I swapped it out for a decently used PushaMatic for the time being. I have since removed that and upgrded to a Square D panel that matches the house.

Unfortunately, my neighbor has a FPE panel inher home. I told her that if she couldn't afford to replace it, make sure her Homeowner's policy was up to date.

 

[Techie1961]

Are we talking about the stab lock breakers still being sold today? The old push in style? I'm in Canada and it was mentioned we didn't have the issue up here.

May be our stricter qualification ratings, ie CSA, ULc, etc.

I am interested in this as well. They are still sold up here in electrical supply outlets.

 

[dw1]

I am interested in this as well. They are still sold up here in electrical supply outlets.

You can still get replacement breakers here also, I believe Challenger makes the replacement breakers labeled Federal Pacific, they are pricey though!!

There is a local supply house that carries these, I went there one day needing a FPE breaker, it was closer for me as I have a big box of these breakers, anyway, once inside the supply house I asked for a 20 a s/p breaker, he asked if I wanted "New" or "Used", my reply was "Whats the difference" oh, about $40, I went home and got the breaker I needed.

 

[Norcal]

You can still get replacement breakers here also, I believe Challenger makes the replacement breakers labeled Federal Pacific, they are pricey though!!

There is a local supply house that carries these, I went there one day needing a FPE breaker, it was closer for me as I have a big box of these breakers, anyway, once inside the supply house I asked for a 20 a s/p breaker, he asked if I wanted "New" or "Used", my reply was "Whats the difference" oh, about $40, I went home and got the breaker I needed.

Challenger no longer exists, UBI makes ChiCom knock offs of several obsolete breakers.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Are we talking about the stab lock breakers still being sold today? The old push in style? I'm in Canada and it was mentioned we didn't have the issue up here.

May be our stricter qualification ratings, ie CSA, ULc, etc.

I am interested in this as well. They are still sold up here in electrical supply outlets.

As Norcal pointed out, the FPE breakers and panels up in canada are fine and never had any issues.

The issue with the US version is that FPR never had them tested at an NTL(such as UL/underwritters labratory), assumedly because they didnt want to pay for the expensive testing. Instead, they fraudulently put fake UL stickers on the breakers and panels...

 

[dw1]

Challenger no longer exists, UBI makes ChiCom knock offs of several obsolete breakers.

Oh, OK, I seen the UBI on the breaker, I thought it still said Challenger on there also, I didnt know Challenger went out of business.

 

[unsinkable]

"fire Pacific"
best breakers ever...they NEVER trip !

 

[Jess]

So, just out of curiosity, what is the difference in the US mfd and Cdn mfg panels and breakers. I have a box of older black breakers and a pile of grey bodied breakers. They are all labelled 'Stab-Lok Federal Pioneer type NC'. I have looked at the various sites for FPE failures and can't see what the physical difference is in either the panels or the breakers but, apparently they have not been an issue in Canada. I have lived in a number of homes with these panels and never had an issue. I have need led to believe that Schneider has discontinued the brand of panels in Canada but breakers are still available pretty much everywhere.

 

[Norcal]

So, just out of curiosity, what is the difference in the US mfd and Cdn mfg panels and breakers. I have a box of older black breakers and a pile of grey bodied breakers. They are all labelled 'Stab-Lok Federal Pioneer type NC'. I have looked at the various sites for FPE failures and can't see what the physical difference is in either the panels or the breakers but, apparently they have not been an issue in Canada. I have lived in a number of homes with these panels and never had an issue. I have need led to believe that Schneider has discontinued the brand of panels in Canada but breakers are still available pretty much everywhere.

Apparently Federal Pacific Electric had been cheating in the calibration of Stab-Lok circuit breakers, & it blew up around the time Reliance Electric was buying FPE, & Reliance was being bought by Exxon.

Before they were FPE, they were Federal, also branded as "No-Ark" which was used by the electrical div. of the Colt firearms company which made a number of products besides firearms.

http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/152381/45_Caliber_Dishwasher.html


The only FPE product line that is problematic is the Stab-Lok panels & breakers, other products of that now defunct company are not in question.

There has never been any recall of Stab-Lok products.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

And there wasnt a recall sadly because the consumer product safety commission wasnt financially ready for a lawsuit should one be filed by FPEs parent company.

Heres a detailed article about the whole story:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...gation-Finds-Decades-of-Danger-171406921.html

 

[gregtwojeeps]

F.P.E..... Wow, this thread brings back to me a nightmare that happened to me and my buddy over 42 years ago...while working on a newly installed 4000 amp FPE main switch gear.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

480v? What happened? Blow up?

 

[cowboyjosh]

Literally just yesterday our electrician replaced a FPE panel on a stately old house that were remodeling with a new SQD QO panel.

 

[sberry]

They are old, obsolete, not current, many times the meter bases and wire ahead of them are **** anyway. The advent of the Homeline has even made it more appealing due to the fact it is cheap. As I recall parts for a 100 main/20 or 24 was about 150$. A 6 space main lug is under 20. They make an 8 too for running a sub but they are beautiful for running a new tool circuit with 6 cable to add to **** spec wired garages.
Even well meaning masters repurpose electric equipment, its just fine under their care such as my neighbor that unbond an old fuse entrance panel for use as a 4 wire sub,,, he knows all this but I toss all that **** I can find. He repaired an old Zinsco, I would have tossed it and changed it when we had a weather outage.

 

[ishiboo]

Amazing QO has been around since 1955 and only now is the platform substantially changing with the addition of plug-on neutral. Go Schneider!

Not sure you can beat the value of the QO trip mechanism in a Homeline package.

 

[sberry]

I would like to find the guys that engineered the Homeline in the market place and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hire them. SQD seen the handwriting on the wall and hustled their way in. Sears could have taken some lessons from them.
All these second tier stuff was eating some at them, mostly in the modular home market, some BR and Challenger and Home Depot featured Seimens I believe till SQD got in on the act.

 

[sberry]

They dominate all 3 box stores here with the rest being has run minor players.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Any change in the manufacture process, composition of the materials used, suppliers etc., no matter how minor, triggers the need for re-certification of the breakers (even it is cosmetic).

FPE didn't report some of these cosmetic changes, (nothing affecting the operation), in order to save money.

When Reliance was auditing the books, they came across these discrepancies, and Told on themselves.

The were unavailable for about 6-9 months, and the new ones came out with magenta colored U/L stickers, rather than the the yellow of the previous labels.
___________________________________________________________________________

(All the "working innerds" of the Homeline breakers are the same as a QO. The only differences, are the way they attach to the bus, the Visitrip feature of the QO, and the width)

 

[slow]

I prefer QO, but that is my preference and what I have always been around. I used to have some clear sample breakers so you could see the trip mechanism and it was neat to see it in action. I will have to see if I can find them since a google image search only showed the AFCI breakers, not the regular QO. edit: found a link to the sample breakers I had http://www.electrical-forensics.com/CircuitBreakers/CB-Web-Pics/ExemplarClear-LG.jpg

Ryan

 

[matt151617]

I had one in my house. It wasn't one of the "bad" ones, but I replaced it anyways. Another reason to get rid of it was new breakers had to be special ordered and were expensive as hell.