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Framing 16x20 building

Codyboy

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Jan 31, 2019
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Hello.

I'm in the process of building a 16x20x10 high shed/shop.

I have already framed the floor (2×6 on 16" o.c. ,on blocks with 3/4 t&g plywood floor) and didn't think about the girts taking up 3 inches for the overall size. So now once I add the girts it will be 16'-3"× 20'-3" framed size and will require longer lumber than I had intended with more waste.
I originally was going to install the girts to the outside but now am thinking of I stalling them between the 4ft o.c. poles and notching the top of the poles to except the top banding.
Will installing the girts inside of poles cause the building to be weaker? And how will I notch the poles for my angle bracing with the girts in the way?
 
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oledude1952

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Jan 20, 2019
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69
Location
KY
Hello.

I'm in the process of building a 16x20x10 high shed/shop.

I have already framed the floor (2×6 on 16" o.c. ,on blocks with 3/4 t&g plywood floor) and didn't think about the girts taking up 3 inches for the overall size. So now once I add the girts it will be 16'-3"× 20'-3" framed size and will require longer lumber than I had intended with more waste.
I originally was going to install the girts to the outside but now am thinking of I stalling them between the 4ft o.c. poles and notching the top of the poles to except the top banding.
Will installing the girts inside of poles cause the building to be weaker? And how will I notch the poles for my angle bracing with the girts in the way?


The blue text has me a bit confused. :confused: Does not read to be an easy fix.

It reads as if the building is being built in a "pole" barn fashion. So are the posts/poles already in the ground set at 4' O.C. with them having a outside measured dimension of 15' 9" x 19' 9 "?? If they are, I do not see how you ended up with a 16' x 20' floor deck .:headscrat

If the poles or posts are not already set in the ground, then you will have to set them "notched" over in to the floor deck to get your needed " outside to outside" measurement of 16' x 20' for the framing.


See the blue dotted box ( a pole or post) on my sketch attached. Which if notched, will leave a portion of the post exposed outside, that will have to be boxed in somehow. Not cool to do either and expensive to do.

I may be way off base here, but am still trying to figure this one out. :) JMO
 
Last edited:

Jigstick

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Jan 7, 2019
Messages
16
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Why not just stick frame the whole thing? How tall do you need the walls and ragare doors? What’s the pitch of the roof going to be? Is there going to be a loft? I stick framed my 40x30 and 14x12. If you go this route I highly recommend using a heavy LvL for your ridge beam. Mine are doubled up 18in LVLs. I have winches secured to them to pull motors.
 
OP
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Codyboy

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Messages
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Location
S.E. TEXAS
The blue text has me a bit confused. :confused: Does not read to be an easy fix.

It reads as if the building is being built in a "pole" barn fashion. So are the posts/poles already in the ground set at 4' O.C. with them having a outside measured dimension of 15' 9" x 19' 9 "?? If they are, I do not see how you ended up with a 16' x 20' floor deck .:headscrat

If the poles or posts are not already set in the ground, then you will have to set them "notched" over in to the floor deck to get your needed " outside to outside" measurement of 16' x 20' for the framing.


See the blue dotted box ( a pole or post) on my sketch attached. Which if notched, will leave a portion of the post exposed outside, that will have to be boxed in somehow. Not cool to do either and expensive to do.

I may be way off base here, but am still trying to figure this one out. :) JMO


Yeah this will be very unconventional framing.

My building sits on 12 cinder blocks. I framed the floor with 2x6, 16" o.c. with a doubled strong back down the center under the 2x6.
Could not afford concrete so this was the alternative. However in hindsight I would gladly pay extra for concrete vs. Trying to level out 12 separate sets of blocks!

But what's done is done. I could have done poles in the ground but knowing g it was going to have a wood floor , I decided on blocks that let's my floor be at least 16 inches on the high side of the grade to allow enough air flow under it to keep it dry.

So, the framing will mimic a pole building. 6 trusses on 4 ft o.c. and a 4x4 post uder each. The corners will be 4x6 posts.

I thought about stick framing it but seemed like overkill with 16" o.c. studs and then girts every 24" to screw the metal to. So 4x4 posts 48" o.c. to support the roof trusses and roof.

I should have built my floor 15'-9" × 19'-9". That way I could screw my girts to the outside of the posts and had a 16x20 overall not counting g the siding. Then my 16 ft girts would be long enough.
That's why I was wondering about just banding the top 2x8 into a 1 1/2" notch cut into the tops of the posts and attaching the girts in between the posts (like a wood privacy fence is built).

My question was will doing this weaken the structure? Also I was wondering how I was going to notch all the posts and girts to except the diagonal bracing for the walls.

I suppose I could notch the inside of the posts and run the diagonal braces on the I side Instead of the outside lime normal.
 
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oledude1952

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Jan 20, 2019
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Location
KY
Yeah this will be very unconventional framing.

My building sits on 12 cinder blocks. I framed the floor with 2x6, 16" o.c. with a doubled strong back down the center under the 2x6.
Could not afford concrete so this was the alternative. However in hindsight I would gladly pay extra for concrete vs. Trying to level out 12 separate sets of blocks!

But what's done is done. I could have done poles in the ground but knowing g it was going to have a wood floor , I decided on blocks that let's my floor be at least 16 inches on the high side of the grade to allow enough air flow under it to keep it dry.

So, the framing will mimic a pole building. 6 trusses on 4 ft o.c. and a 4x4 post uder each. The corners will be 4x6 posts.

I thought about stick framing it but seemed like overkill with 16" o.c. studs and then girts every 24" to screw the metal to. So 4x4 posts 48" o.c. to support the roof trusses and roof.

I should have built my floor 15'-9" × 19'-9". That way I could screw my girts to the outside of the posts and had a 16x20 overall not counting g the siding. Then my 16 ft girts would be long enough.
That's why I was wondering about just banding the top 2x8 into a 1 1/2" notch cut into the tops of the posts and attaching the girts in between the posts (like a wood privacy fence is built).

My question was will doing this weaken the structure? Also I was wondering how I was going to notch all the posts and girts to except the diagonal bracing for the walls.

I suppose I could notch the inside of the posts and run the diagonal braces on the I side Instead of the outside lime normal.


First, is this structure permitted or having building inspections done ? If so, your inspector has the ruling authority here. A inspector over rules all internet advice ya know.

To me at least, unless the posts are put in the ground as conventional "pole" barns are, mounting them on a wood deck is sort of "faking" it. Because the intent of poles/posts being put in the ground is to give the structure better wind resistance strength.

Whenever posts are just set on a wood deck and even if using the good Simpson post base ties screwed down to blocking between the joists, their vertical "side to side" strength of the vertical posts has been compromised.

IE: Set a 4 " x4" post screwed down to a 3/4 inch plywood deck using a Simpson anchor base plate and I will bet you a $100.00 I can shake it loose with my bare hands. Run the same post down between the floor joists and "block " it in, I cannot shake it loose so easily, but I will still be able to move it some. Dig it down 36 inches and hard tamp it it dirt or even pour concrete mix around it, I will still move it some by "flexing " it above ground but it will not loosen up from its base.


So IMO with your present build, just sandwiching studs in the wall using 3 side by side nailed tightly together (triple studs) will serve the same vertical load bearing support as a 4"x 4 " post (3.5 x 3.5 ") will. They would be much less likely to wrap in the future also, like a treated 4" x 4" post will.

And to your 3 " total loss of out to out framing width/length now, is there anyway to consider just setting your walls back inward 1.5" on the deck now ?

Unless you are using REALLY specific dimension equipment inside the building to where one cannot give up the 3 inches inside, I see this as your best option. ( just do not figure on using a 16' wide roll up door) :)


And to your "notching" the posts for your top wall band and putting all the girts "inside to inside" of the posts. IMO I see no significant loss of vertical/side to side weakening of the structure by doing so.

BUT, as my sketch shows, it will be a LOT of extra work and fastening for you to do the notching/mitered cuts of the diagonal bracings. And once you have "notched" a 1.5" deep 2" x4" in to a 3.5" thick post, you have compromised the post strength also.

As already stated, may want to also consider just stick framing the walls. Maybe go 24" O.C. stud walls with double studs under the trusses if that makes it suitable.. Good Luck and JMO.
 
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Codyboy

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No permit or inspection in my area.

You bring up some good points to consider.

Well , I guess I can't post links yet. I had a link for "www . steel garages and shops . com / process"
Similar to that framing is what I had on my mind save the concrete.


I was trying to avoid as many vertical members as possible being it was a metal roof and not much weight involved compared to a composition type roof. Also to avoid the framing resembling a checkerboard with nearly as many vertical members as horizontal girts.

There will also be a lean to out 12ft on both sides that will have posts in the ground as well as a 10 ft overhang on the front gable with posts in the ground.
 
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