Framing a larger door

[morpheusmac]

I would like to rough in a 12' opening versus the 10 foot opening my shop has currently to prep for a garage door install.

I am not an engineer and would like someone with a little bit more experience with an opinion on it.

here are some images:

Currently it is a 10 foot span with a sliding door on the outside. I would like to widen the opening to add a roll up 12' garage door. Looks like I'll be cutting out over two feet of foundation on the right side there to make it work.

There is only enough room on the right for the 4x4 and an added 2x4 to support the header on the bottom plate. There will be a 2x6 jamb added too which would be supporting the header as well.

I was concerned with the gaps at both ends of the header and whether or not a single 4x4 and a 2x4 were enough to deal with the load since I will be removing the two 2x4's supporting the head to the left.

Can someone with a little experience lend a hand?

The rest of the shop:

Thanks,
Tom

 

[hoho98925]

I would take 1' off each side of the door opening. I would then add a 4x cripple stud at the edge of each opening for extra support. You should be ok with that beam at that span, your not worrying about any serious roof loads in Seattle.

 

[morpheusmac]

1' off of the "left" side doesn't give me enough space off of the wall due to storage/tools and probably a man door that will be on that wall. Looks like I'm kind of stuck with the "right" or a 10' door unfortunately...just don't want it to sag or be dangerous.

Tom

 

[The Cobbler]

looks to me that the header is already long enough and you just have to cut out the studs to gain your width. how long is the header? is there enough height with the existing header ?

 

[morpheusmac]

Header is long enough. You can see two studs to the left of the 4x4 in the image I posted, both of those would need to come out and I would have enough room to add a 2x4 to that existing 4x4 for more support. The 2x6 jamb would be nailed to that as well and would be added support as well for the header. I just want to make sure it isn't going to sag or be inadequate support on that side to support the load.

 

[morpheusmac]

The height *****, its 91"floor to header. I'm going to have to add a cripple to the existing header in order to put in a 7' door instead of an 8' like I was hoping. Width wise it is 14' x 4" x 12" solid header for sure.

 

[James-W]

It is difficult to tell by the pictures, but is the header one 2X10 or is it two of them with a half inch piece of plywood between them?

I am not a structural engineer but I think you need two of the 2X10's with a layer of half inch material (usually plywood) in between them. That gives you a total of 3 1/2 inches width which is just what you need to fit on a 2X4. I THINK that is what you need to span 12 feet, but I could be wrong on that. You MAY need to have a laminated beam for that, I don't know for sure. It would be in your best interest to ask someone who is much more knowledgeable about the structural strength needed to span distances than what I am.

 

[morpheusmac]

its a 4x12 header 14' long

 

[James-W]

its a 4x12 header 14' long

I have never seen a 4X12. If that is what you have, then it should not be a problem.

 

[morpheusmac]

The beam is 3.5" x 11.5" in actual size.

I believe it is a leftover from when my dad built the house I bought from him out of some old beams he got for cheap or probably free from a demo job back in the early 80's...before someone made up the word reclaimed he was just being cheap and smart

 

[jstroede]

The height *****, its 91"floor to header. I'm going to have to add a cripple to the existing header in order to put in a 7' door instead of an 8' like I was hoping. Width wise it is 14' x 4" x 12" solid header for sure.

Even though you don't have room for an 8' door, that doesn't mean you have to put in a 7' high door. A 7'6" high door might be an option for you.

John

 

[morpheusmac]

Sounds like it might be pricey....but I like the idea of having the extra height...what would a 12' x 7'6" door cost?

 

[jstroede]

Well for many manufacturers, it would cost the same as a 12x8. In a standard residential door, an 8' high door is two 21" tall sections and three 18" sections. a 7'6" high door would just be five 18" sections. In a commercial type door you could do it with two 24" sections and two 21" sections. Sorry I can't help you on the price other than if someone tries to tell you that it would be "special" and cost a bunch extra, find someone else.

John

 

[morpheusmac]

Thanks John, I'll look into it. I was going to farm out the door install anyways once I get the wiring, insulation and drywall done.

 

[morpheusmac]

I ended up doing this and cutting out 27" of the foundation to get the pre-framed width I was looking for. I used a demo saw with a concrete blade, a medium sized rotohammer with a flat blade and a small angle grinder to smooth it all out, it actually turned out pretty well considering I've never cut concrete before.

I ended up cutting through the sill plate anchor bolt, so I'll need to replace that. Any idea how long or how wide the anchor bolt needs to be?

I need to cut the foundation in another spot to add a man door, should I add anchor bolts where I split the sill plate there as well?

 

[The Cobbler]

use a 3/8 thread size by about 4" wedge anchor . drill into the sill & concrete to required depth blow out the hole) and drop in the anchor, tighten & voila . I would put one on each side where you cut for the man door too.

 

[tcianci]

The 4x4 "jack" supporting the right end of the beam will be sufficient. I am making that statement based off my experience with engineered lumber headers, they typically require 3-1/2" of bearing surface on either end.

If your header were engineered lumber, any dealer that sells engineered lumber products will have the software to specify the correct product for the span. Since your header appears to be solid dimensional lumber, a structural engineer would be the correct person to defer to for a real answer to the question. The other thing to be taken into account is the direction of your trusses. In the photograph showing the header, it looks like the trusses bear on that header. If the door opening were in the gable end of the building, the load on that header would be greatly reduced.

I guess it all comes down to your level of concern. You could just wing it or, try some seat of the pants engineering by guessing at the load and the species of wood and use some interweb span table, or go to an engineer. If you go to an engineer, he will ask you if you need a stamped drawing or if you're just wanting to be safe. The stamped drawing is where it gets spendy.

 

[morpheusmac]

After pulling the studs and cutting out the wall it seems really stable. I'm comfortable with the choice to widen the door and I have no doubt the beam will do fine with the load. In fact after cutting the big chunk of foundation out, I'm actually way less frustrated with finding out I need to cut out a couple inches of the foundation for the man door I need to put in.

Now, to pick up some of those wedge anchors and make sure I have the right size rotohammer bit floating around here....oh and to plan and map out power for the place.

 

[ishiboo]

After pulling the studs and cutting out the wall it seems really stable. I'm comfortable with the choice to widen the door and I have no doubt the beam will do fine with the load. In fact after cutting the big chunk of foundation out, I'm actually way less frustrated with finding out I need to cut out a couple inches of the foundation for the man door I need to put in.

Now, to pick up some of those wedge anchors and make sure I have the right size rotohammer bit floating around here....oh and to plan and map out power for the place.

I'll support the load. I am guessing it will sag enough that you will have wished you went with an engineered solution down the road.

 

[rburke65]

You are going to love the 12' wide door!

 

[buddyboy]

how long is the garage door wall?

not only should you worry about the header carrying the load of the roof (i think you are ok there)

you need to worry about shear. if you only have a little bit of wall on each side of the door, that wall could rack left or right.

 

[HoosierMark]

If you want more height, would it be possible to replace the existing header with a steel beam or something wooden thicker but not 12 inches? Even if you had a 12 inch kickout into the room to support the extra width of the beam, it might give you that extra few inches in height you would like. I am not an engineer, builder or anything other then someone who thinks outside the box and asks a lot of questions to make sure I find out all my choices before I make a decision. I am sure the smart people on here can comment on this idea quickly. But if you are going to add a new door, find out how much it costs for your options and then you can decide if it is worth it to you. You could put supports under the trusses to hold the roof in place until you installed the smaller beam, that should not be a major deal.

 

[rustyjames]

how long is the garage door wall?

not only should you worry about the header carrying the load of the roof (i think you are ok there)

you need to worry about shear. if you only have a little bit of wall on each side of the door, that wall could rack left or right.

My thoughts too on the shear factor.

 

[morpheusmac]

I think I'm fine on the overhead load, if removing two studs causes it to sag hopefully that'll happen when I've been using it for 15+ years. Someone will just bulldoze it anyways when I sell.

As far as height above the door, I'm good with being stuck where I am at, I think the 7.5' door should cover my needs without the labor and cost associated with replacing the beam.

There is plenty of wall to the "right" of the door and only a couple feet to the "left" as you can see from the images. I was debating on using a couple of these since I need to tie the bottom plate to the foundation again:

What do you think?

 

[rustyjames]

You're still not addressing shear loads with respect to the enlarged opening.

 

[morpheusmac]

Do you think the sheathing doesn't address shear enough? I suppose I could add some horizontal blocking for a few studs adjacent to the opening.

Do you have a suggestion to address the shear load?

 

[FordTruckWench]

I was debating on using a couple of these since I need to tie the bottom plate to the foundation again:

That's an earthquake hold-down. In new construction, that rod would perhaps go 2 feet deep into the foundation. I don't know how deep you'd have to drill for a retrofit. You're in Washington, so some seismic risk, thus adding earthquake stuff all around the garage might be good, but installing just one or two holddowns might be counter productive.

I've seen pros do both earthquake hold-downs and standard J-bolt anchorbolts, i.e. the earthquake stuff perhaps isn't accepted as a replacement for the anchorbolts.

Do you think the sheathing doesn't address shear enough?

What is the exterior sheathing? Individual horizontal boards? Vertical boards? Or plywood? If it is a plywood type product, that'll provide your shear strength. How much width is there beyond the door opening? Earthquake shear walls call (or called) for a 1:2 ratio. That is, an 8 foot high wall should have a 4 foot wide shear panel. (From your pictures, it looks like you have a long wall beyond the door.)

 

[morpheusmac]

This is all retrofit, no new construction going on here, just trying to do the right thing.

There is T1-11 Siding all around the shop nailed properly and holding everything together. Beyond the door opening to the "left" there is about three feet of wall tied into the corner, to the right there is about 33feet of wall that everything ties into.

 

[morpheusmac]

Sorry for bringing this back from the dead, but I figured I'd share what I ended up with:

I saw cut the opening with a demo saw and a concrete blade, then finished off the rough concrete with an angle grinder with a concrete blade.

All prepped and ready for a new roll up garage door and opener to be installed

Still working on getting a door and opener lined up, but I've made a bunch of progress.

Thanks for the help!

 

[firebirdparts]

Wow, that's quite a transformation!