Framing over cinder block garage walls

[jmgreen7]

I'm going to be framing in my garage in the near future and need some confirmation of decisions I believe are correct. The garage walls are all cinder block, all above ground.
1. Am i okay without moisture barrier or drylok?
2. Is 1/2 offset off the cinder block wall adequate or does it have to be a full inch?

Thanks everyone.

 

[volleyball]

You are going to want a sill seal no matter the height. It would be best to seal any concrete structure if you are going to condition the space.
What are you off setting for?

 

[jmgreen7]

From what I had read, I only needed to concern myself with a pt board on the base plate. The offset was to prevent direct contact of non pressure treated wood and the cinder block. I'm wondering if I did a poor job describing what I'm going.
My house is completely finished. The walls of the garage are bare cinder block. I want to frame those walls in and drywall over them. I am not framing on top of a cinder block foundation. It's akin to framing basement walls.

 

[volleyball]

So you are finishing the inside walls, not the picture I got.
If you drylock, spray foam or sheet hi den foam board then the studs can be up against it. if not you will need a space. I would think 1/2" would be fine. If you needed more, it makes sense to seal the walls.

 

[tms0425]

Not sure how you planned to insulate but HERE is what I did with my cinder block wall garage using www.insofast.com 2x4' panels.

Plastic studs, vapor barrier, insulation all in one. Very easy to do and worked well for me.

 

[Ironcrow]

I'm doing the same thing right now. I don't know if its "right", but for what its worth, I'm standing the studs off 1/2 inch, pressure treated sill plate glued to the floor, filling the wall with foam.

 

[Ironcrow]

Not sure how you planned to insulate but HERE is what I did with my cinder block wall garage using www.insofast.com 2x4' panels.

Plastic studs, vapor barrier, insulation all in one. Very easy to do and worked well for me.

That's cool. What do you do for utilities? My wall has all kinds of wiring and plumbing in it, which I ran in the studs in the traditional manor.

 

[jmgreen7]

Not sure how you planned to insulate but HERE is what I did with my cinder block wall garage using www.insofast.com 2x4' panels.

Plastic studs, vapor barrier, insulation all in one. Very easy to do and worked well for me.

I would be nervous to hang the heavy items on plastic studs. I'll look it up, but I imagine it's out of my price range.

I'm willing to lose a 1/2 inch if I don't have to drylok.

 

[Beemer533]

Where do you live? Are you wanting to use drylok for a specific reason?

I am personally not a big fan of drylok as it seems to be just a "cover up". If you have moisture coming through walls you have other problems, especially above grade that should be corrected. All drylok is doing is keeping moisture in the walls.

1/2 or 1" isn't going to make any difference. If you don't have any moisture issues just maybe clean the walls, frame and insulate then vapor barrier (depending on insulation).

 

[fury9]

As long as your walls aren't more than a half inch out of plumb your good to go. I like to use 1"

 

[jmgreen7]

Where do you live? Are you wanting to use drylok for a specific reason?

I am personally not a big fan of drylok as it seems to be just a "cover up". If you have moisture coming through walls you have other problems, especially above grade that should be corrected. All drylok is doing is keeping moisture in the walls.

1/2 or 1" isn't going to make any difference. If you don't have any moisture issues just maybe clean the walls, frame and insulate then vapor barrier (depending on insulation).

I actually don't want to use drylok. I'm in va so I'm debating whether I bother to insulate the walls. I probably will just because the walls are open.

 

[tms0425]

That's cool. What do you do for utilities? My wall has all kinds of wiring and plumbing in it, which I ran in the studs in the traditional manor.

It has channels on the back every 16" vertically for electrical and plumbing, as well as horizontal at each of the 2' interlocking seams. It was very simple to fish wires behind it and it meets codes for depth.

In terms of strength, they show a guy hanging from a tv mount attached directly to them. I used the PL adhesive they recommend, but if in doubt, tapcons through the stud into the concrete can also be used.

 

[cheechi]

The walls of the garage are bare cinder block. I want to frame those walls in and drywall over them. I am not framing on top of a cinder block foundation. It's akin to framing basement walls.

I have a basement with painted block and concrete floor. Part of it has been finished by the PO. 1/2 or 3/4" pink foam sheet (hd not ld) between stud & walls. PT base plate with redheads into the concrete. pink 'basement' variety rolled insulation in between the studs. So really just like what you said.

I specifically asked the house inspector is any of it out of the ordinary or bad/poor choice, he said no its fine.

In case it is significant, part of the basement is 'ground level' but none of this finished part is technically touching walls that are exposed to weather.

 

[willymakeit]

Whats wrong with using metal furring channels? Called Z furring also. Fasten directly to walls and hang drywall on them. You can also install ridged foam between them if needed.
Just an idea.

 

[volleyball]

drylock is paint. A paint that bonds well and stops moisture. Why not use it? It will stop moisture and most air movement which means any fiberglass will be able to do its job.
Reduce chances of growing mold.
Why is the garage being finished? I guess that is the big question? Will it be living space. Want to hide pipes and wires? Just to make it prettier?

 

[jmgreen7]

drylock is paint. A paint that bonds well and stops moisture. Why not use it? It will stop moisture and most air movement which means any fiberglass will be able to do its job.
Reduce chances of growing mold.
Why is the garage being finished? I guess that is the big question? Will it be living space. Want to hide pipes and wires? Just to make it prettier?

A few reasons -
1. To make it prettier - i'm kinda OCD with how clean i'd like my garage to look. I don't like surface mount conduit and electrical boxes. Right now, the entirety of my garage has one outlet, which is obviously not enough.
2. I honestly hate mounting on cinder block with tapcons. I don't know if it is a function of the cinderblock, or my mounting techniques, but about half of the tapcons just don't bite into the block. I don't trust the strength.
3. There was no good air seal between the cinder block walls and the drywall on the ceiling. I considered building small chases just to allow the drywall to actually tie into the block, but that grew into just adding the walls. Currently, the drywall was tucked in on top of the cinder block. it was a poor install job.

 

[jmgreen7]

Whats wrong with using metal furring channels? Called Z furring also. Fasten directly to walls and hang drywall on them. You can also install ridged foam between them if needed.
Just an idea.

I don't know anything about z furring. Potentially cost? what strength do they support for mounting objects to the wall?

 

[tms0425]

Fyi, my roof is a sloped/flat roof. I spray foamed ~2" to the underside of the roof deck and ceiling joists over to the top of the Insofast panels on the walls, so it's sealed all the way around. Then, I put in R-19 batts and Dura-Panel steel will go up on the ceiling (instead of the drywall on yours). All of the electrical is behind the Insofast and the boxes are flush mounted into the foam on the walls, so with J channel at the top I think it will look very clean and tidy.

The disadvantage with wood studs or z strips attached to the concrete is thermal bridging, which probably matters only if you plan to insulate and heat/cool. Spacing the studs as you plan, that's not an issue.

HERE is an adhesion test they conducted. I didn't use Tapcons and have no concerns about the adhesive. I plan on hanging cabinets and other stuff with simple french cleats screwed directly into the studs.

 

[ratdoggy]

That's cool. What do you do for utilities? My wall has all kinds of wiring and plumbing in it, which I ran in the studs in the traditional manor.

I would be nervous to hang the heavy items on plastic studs. I'll look it up, but I imagine it's out of my price range.

I'm willing to lose a 1/2 inch if I don't have to drylok.

It is pretty pricey. I looked into it for my basement and ended up with metal studs and foam board

 

[dirttracker18]

Contrary to some posts here, you need a barrier between the floor and sill plate, even with PT lumber. Concrete is porous thereby allowing moisture through it. The lumber will absorb the moisture, even PT. Standard practise is to use sill gasket, it is cheap so use it.

Second, yes leave a gap between the cinder blocks and the studs, same reason as above. For me, when I had a cinder block garage, I used 1" foam board glued to the walls then built my walls in front and up against that. You can then decide to insulate more in the stud bays if you like. I use the same technique when finishing basements and it works great to keep moisture at a minimum.