spooler41
Well-known member
All I can say is, you are paying for perfection , expect nothing less.
..................Jack
..................Jack
Framing problem
- Thread starter fwillison
- Start date
PetesPonies
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Framing 101 is making a square wall . . before you hang sheeting. I would be afraid of anything else they do. To be the builder and accept this is criminal; Period!
Update:
Told the GC it was obviously unacceptable, and that the building needs to be plumb, square, level and true. I said I shouldn't need to tell you that, and that it will affect everything.
I said I didn't want any more work to progress until it is right.
He texted me this am from the job site that the problem with that wall was that the bottom plate was cut into sections to avoid plumbing (two hose bibs). He said the center bottom needed to be slid to the east. Said all studs would slide into plumb when bottom moved about one inch to East. OSB was removed to adjust. The framer supposedly has gone around with his "expandable level" checking and fixing studs that needed correcting. They will then reinstll OSB on that wall and and finish the rest of the sheating. He wanted my ok to move forward with Tyvek and setting the windows.
Plan is to get lift to set the trusses tomorrow if I see that the walls are okay this evening.
I gave the OK for the tyvek and windows stating "as long as things are fixed and sheetrock fits appropriately" I'll go out after work to check. Said I relied on him (the GC) to confirm. He said OK.
That's where we are at.
Not sure I feel qualified to inspect framing, but not sure what else I can do. I'll have a 5 ft level, a square and a plumb bob.
Any advice on what procedures I should use to check?
thanks
Fred
Told the GC it was obviously unacceptable, and that the building needs to be plumb, square, level and true. I said I shouldn't need to tell you that, and that it will affect everything.
I said I didn't want any more work to progress until it is right.
He texted me this am from the job site that the problem with that wall was that the bottom plate was cut into sections to avoid plumbing (two hose bibs). He said the center bottom needed to be slid to the east. Said all studs would slide into plumb when bottom moved about one inch to East. OSB was removed to adjust. The framer supposedly has gone around with his "expandable level" checking and fixing studs that needed correcting. They will then reinstll OSB on that wall and and finish the rest of the sheating. He wanted my ok to move forward with Tyvek and setting the windows.
Plan is to get lift to set the trusses tomorrow if I see that the walls are okay this evening.
I gave the OK for the tyvek and windows stating "as long as things are fixed and sheetrock fits appropriately" I'll go out after work to check. Said I relied on him (the GC) to confirm. He said OK.
That's where we are at.
Not sure I feel qualified to inspect framing, but not sure what else I can do. I'll have a 5 ft level, a square and a plumb bob.
Any advice on what procedures I should use to check?
thanks
Fred
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
To check for square use either the 3-4-5 method, or measure diagonals on the entire wall.
3-4-5: at the corner, measure over 3 feet on the base plate, measure 4 feet up on the stud, and the diagonal distance between those two points should be 5 feet. You can double up the measurements to 6-8-10 if you want.
Diagonals: measure from the bottom of one end of the wall to the top of the other end. The distance should be the same measuring both directions.
3-4-5: at the corner, measure over 3 feet on the base plate, measure 4 feet up on the stud, and the diagonal distance between those two points should be 5 feet. You can double up the measurements to 6-8-10 if you want.
Diagonals: measure from the bottom of one end of the wall to the top of the other end. The distance should be the same measuring both directions.
FarmerPete
Well-known member
I'd still can the guy. There are good GCs, and then there are bad GC. This one seems to be the later.
Old Moparz
Well-known member
This really incompetent GC ***** & is always my own fear when I have to "hire a professional" to do something. Like others said, if it isn't plumb & square lots of other things won't be easily installed or when you want to add or modify things later, they won't be easy either.
Want your windows, doors or overhead doors to bind up?
Want drafts from windows & doors?
Want cabinet doors to swing open or shut on you?
I remember some guy telling me on a jobsite, "Don't worry, the floor is off only a 1/4" & it won't matter." I told him to multiply that 1/4" over the distance of the entire floor & you'll be out a couple of inches on the other side.
It could be a can of worms, but what about calling the building department & bringing it to their attention?
Want your windows, doors or overhead doors to bind up?
Want drafts from windows & doors?
Want cabinet doors to swing open or shut on you?
I remember some guy telling me on a jobsite, "Don't worry, the floor is off only a 1/4" & it won't matter." I told him to multiply that 1/4" over the distance of the entire floor & you'll be out a couple of inches on the other side.
It could be a can of worms, but what about calling the building department & bringing it to their attention?
boiler7904
Well-known member
As others have said, it's wrong - way wrong. Bet you don't pass a framing inspection with that framing. Don't write any more checks until the framing is correct.
bring a tape measure and check to make sure those studs are all 16 on center...
it might just be the photo, but besides not having anything square or plumb the spacing looks wrong.
to me it looks like they may have built it square on the ground, but the floor was not level, so they tried to rack it plumb then sheath it to hold it all together.
check your floor for level (lay your level parallel to the wall and inch or two away)
ifn it's got a slope to it you'll need to look to see if they tried to correct the wall by shimming under the wall.
did the GC contract the slab too? are the same guys framing also the same guys that finished the slab?
good luck
it might just be the photo, but besides not having anything square or plumb the spacing looks wrong.
to me it looks like they may have built it square on the ground, but the floor was not level, so they tried to rack it plumb then sheath it to hold it all together.
check your floor for level (lay your level parallel to the wall and inch or two away)
ifn it's got a slope to it you'll need to look to see if they tried to correct the wall by shimming under the wall.
did the GC contract the slab too? are the same guys framing also the same guys that finished the slab?
good luck
I don't think it's the slab, but I'll check it for level.
Anyway, even if slab was a little sloped, seems like the wall could be built plumb and square anyway.
Firing the GC now is not my plan unless it isn't made right. I've got bad weather coming and 20K in materials on the ground at the jobsite. Will not likely be able to get a new GC and new framing crew for weeks at best. No guarantees with a new team either.
At this point the issue is going to be what tolerance to give them. I am going to guess it will be much better now, but hard to beleive they would have gone from that mess to perfect in a day. We'll see.
Fred
Anyway, even if slab was a little sloped, seems like the wall could be built plumb and square anyway.
Firing the GC now is not my plan unless it isn't made right. I've got bad weather coming and 20K in materials on the ground at the jobsite. Will not likely be able to get a new GC and new framing crew for weeks at best. No guarantees with a new team either.
At this point the issue is going to be what tolerance to give them. I am going to guess it will be much better now, but hard to beleive they would have gone from that mess to perfect in a day. We'll see.
Fred
MrMark
Well-known member
If the slab is sloped there is no way the wall will be plumb and square unless they somehow leveled the plate by shimming. You can't build a plumb wall on a sloped plate as the studs would not have full contact at the bottom.
MrMark
Well-known member
The lack of blocking shows me straightaway that this is not a quality job.
Toomanymopars
Member
I use to work on a framing crew in high school as a summer job (framing is not that hard). A longer level needs to be used when plumbing up these walls after they are built, a 4' doesn't cut it at all which is what most crews use. Find a new framing crew. Those studs are designed to carry the load of the roof structure above when plumb, not out of plumb.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I'm going to lean the other way with most of the responses. This is one of the problems that happen when a building is built on top of a slab foundation. I'm willing to bet that the contractor was told the dimensions, and was also told where the doors were to go. He also provided a "fall" in the floor for water drainage. Unfortunately, he didn't look ahead and build the walls to compensate for the slope in the floor.
If it were me, I would not get pissed (yet) and before they go any further, have a rational talk with the contractor about the racked wall and the floor slope.
To make the wall plumb, square, and level, every stud will have to be cut to compensate for the floor slope. Unfortunate for the OP, but it happens.
If it were me, I would not get pissed (yet) and before they go any further, have a rational talk with the contractor about the racked wall and the floor slope.
To make the wall plumb, square, and level, every stud will have to be cut to compensate for the floor slope. Unfortunate for the OP, but it happens.
ovilla
Well-known member
There's plenty of good tradesmen, reputable builders, that friends or family have used in the past. Please call/hire one of those guys for even an hour or so to come on to your job site to check things out for you. You're not a pro, and nobody expects you to be, so if you're going to stay with this GC, you need someone to double check his work, and give you an honest assessment of what's good/acceptable and what needs to be redone.
Having to shift a wall AFTERWARDS is not an acceptable excuse or practice. How did they not account for hose bibs, protruding anchors and anything else that's along the path of the base plate? Most people will place the base plate right where it's going to go and start marking it for everything they need to accommodate, to include door/window openings, plumbing, electrical, adjoining walls, and general stud placement. Then they'll just copy all of the stud locations over to the top plate and then start building the wall on the ground, and then check the walls again after they are up, even shimming studs as needed, so everything's plumb and ready for sheathing and drywall. I also can't believe they didn't use cross bracing to ensure the walls/studs stayed plumb and square, especially on a wall that big. This is all basic stuff that even a DIY can learn from a $20 book from Home Depot - or get for free off the net,
Finally, you are paying hard earned money for this building and it's a huge investment. At the very minimum, expect to get a safe building that adheres to the building code for your area. Keep in mind that you may want to sell it someday, and you can bet that someone will most likely hire an inspector to check it out too.
Having to shift a wall AFTERWARDS is not an acceptable excuse or practice. How did they not account for hose bibs, protruding anchors and anything else that's along the path of the base plate? Most people will place the base plate right where it's going to go and start marking it for everything they need to accommodate, to include door/window openings, plumbing, electrical, adjoining walls, and general stud placement. Then they'll just copy all of the stud locations over to the top plate and then start building the wall on the ground, and then check the walls again after they are up, even shimming studs as needed, so everything's plumb and ready for sheathing and drywall. I also can't believe they didn't use cross bracing to ensure the walls/studs stayed plumb and square, especially on a wall that big. This is all basic stuff that even a DIY can learn from a $20 book from Home Depot - or get for free off the net,
Finally, you are paying hard earned money for this building and it's a huge investment. At the very minimum, expect to get a safe building that adheres to the building code for your area. Keep in mind that you may want to sell it someday, and you can bet that someone will most likely hire an inspector to check it out too.
nehog
Well-known member
Gear dog, why do people post pictures from a hosting site on this forum? That makes it virtually impossible to enlarge them and see details! Please, everyone, please just post the images directly to the forum--the support to do this is built in!
That said, putting that sheathing on must have been quite an experience. Do I see a major gap in one of the images? (I'd zoom in, but when I tried that...)
If the GC OK'ed that work, he should be fired.
That said, putting that sheathing on must have been quite an experience. Do I see a major gap in one of the images? (I'd zoom in, but when I tried that...)
If the GC OK'ed that work, he should be fired.
I hope this eventually works out for you. It seems you are having some large problems with the crews that your GC is hiring.
PetesPonies
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OK, but the first thing you do is shim the bottom plate. Again, as was said, this isn't hard. No matter how you do it, you know what has to be correct in the end and you get it that way. He didn't and tried to pass it off.
OP . . . you have enough to check the wall. Your level and a 3/4/5 triangle are your friend.
OP . . . you have enough to check the wall. Your level and a 3/4/5 triangle are your friend.
sweetcretin
Well-known member
There should be no way for the bottom plate to be "slid" in any direction. The bottom plate must be anchored to the slab. Whether with J-bolts built into the slab or a hammer drill and expanding anchors afterward, the entire bottom plate must be attached. If they cut the bottom plate, it needs anchors on both sides of the cut.
The number, location, and type of anchors is code dependent, so you need local knowledge.
The number, location, and type of anchors is code dependent, so you need local knowledge.
PetesPonies
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If bolts are coming out of the concrete, then it can be "slid" and retightened.
sweetcretin
Well-known member
I don't follow. Explain please.
PetesPonies
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You drill oversized holes in the plate and drop onto the slab, over the bolts. Then a large washer/nut and it is tightened. If you loosen the nuts you can open the holes more if needed, or just adjust within the clearance the oversized hole is giving you.
sweetcretin
Well-known member
Got it.
This wall was over an 1.5 inches out that would require a major hole. The hole should not be that big. (Not saying it isn't or that this framer wouldn't do it.) I was taught that the washer should completely cover the hole which tends to rule out very big holes or slots.
rancherbill
Well-known member
If you check and accept it - YOU HAVE ACCEPTED IT.
The GC should be making the decision whether it is square. Who knows what ever other shabby stuff has or is happening.
If the GC gets pissy with you about the acceptance, tell him you will pay to have it checked and that it will be coming off the final payment.
Your GC sounds to me a little flakey, and hires the cheapest subs around.
Not on site yet
The wall won't be bolted down until finished then Titan bolts drilled and place per code
I agree GC should have found it , not me
At this point though if all is plumb and square I've gotta go with it
Tried to get a pro framer thru a friend to check work but he didn't want to get involved
The wall won't be bolted down until finished then Titan bolts drilled and place per code
I agree GC should have found it , not me
At this point though if all is plumb and square I've gotta go with it
Tried to get a pro framer thru a friend to check work but he didn't want to get involved
Just my $0.02
As mentioned above, this building is being built on slab..that is a whole nother beast since your walls trueness will be 100% dependant on how level the slab was poured...thankfully we never had to deal with this in all my yrs running my crew, and I had fantastic mason subs so I was always spoiled with square and level block or walls on which to build..really made my job a piece of cake/made us look good..because as I've said before, EVERYTHING starts at the base-if the base is jacked, it's going to take ALOT of work by all other trades to make up for it.
That said, they probsbly framed the walls on the slab and tilted up into position. Technically they don't have to install ladder blocking between studs, but it's just good practice when wall studs get over 10' to block between them to help keep them centered/straight along the center of the walls.
To properly frame a wall that is guaranteed level on a slab like that with fall poured into it for water drainage, they should've stood studs and braced them at each corner of the wall on the bottom plate. Once corner studs are placed and braced off you run a heavy duty chaulk line TAUNT...and I cant stress how tight that line must be since that will dictate stud lengths. Using a level on each new stud you set a full length stud onto the bottom plate on each pre marked stud location, level it and then touch the top of the stud to the TAUNT stringline...depending on which side of the wall you start with the studs will get longer/shorter...with a sloping bottom plate this is the only true way to make sure the top plate ends up being string straight.
We were a hands on crew, meaning I was the GC and micro managed everything since ultimately I was responsible, and problems such as this would come out of my profit margin to correct and also screw up my schedule..so I made sure everything was right at each phase before moving on, because I had to. Sad to see/hear this as it shows typical hack GC that wants to make a buck without getting dirty and has a huge excuse bag from which to grab to try and bamboozle a homeowner....all of which made my job harder since I had to convince prospective HO's that I cared and would do the job right (hence my inflated price over my "competition")...would like to think with the kudoo's we got I was able to change minds/perspective of how GC's are perceived and probably why my customers became life long clients even though I was on the higher end of pricing...quality isn't cheap, and that's why low bids are rarely ever the route to go...not saying that was the case here, but in most cases I've seen over the last 2 decades, pricing was the #1 reason people hire who they hire...and said problems typically followed the low price bids.
As for sliding the bottom plate, we did it all the time. We used 1/2" J bolts in our garage builds for example...but drilled 5/8" holes for them..this allows wiggle room. We would mark/drill bottom plates, once wall was in position we nailed off 3/4" thick lumber on each end of the wall and strung a string along the bottom of the wall and tapped the bottom of the wall in or out until we had a measurement of 3/4" from the string to the wall along the length of the wall. This method always provided a perfectly straight wall which is the wall it should be.
Like I said, your slab situation requires a modified framing approach, extra work..but it's what is needed and the way it should've been done...obviously short cuts were taken and all the excuses in the world wont cover up this headache, and finishing problems will only get worse if left like this.
As mentioned above, this building is being built on slab..that is a whole nother beast since your walls trueness will be 100% dependant on how level the slab was poured...thankfully we never had to deal with this in all my yrs running my crew, and I had fantastic mason subs so I was always spoiled with square and level block or walls on which to build..really made my job a piece of cake/made us look good..because as I've said before, EVERYTHING starts at the base-if the base is jacked, it's going to take ALOT of work by all other trades to make up for it.
That said, they probsbly framed the walls on the slab and tilted up into position. Technically they don't have to install ladder blocking between studs, but it's just good practice when wall studs get over 10' to block between them to help keep them centered/straight along the center of the walls.
To properly frame a wall that is guaranteed level on a slab like that with fall poured into it for water drainage, they should've stood studs and braced them at each corner of the wall on the bottom plate. Once corner studs are placed and braced off you run a heavy duty chaulk line TAUNT...and I cant stress how tight that line must be since that will dictate stud lengths. Using a level on each new stud you set a full length stud onto the bottom plate on each pre marked stud location, level it and then touch the top of the stud to the TAUNT stringline...depending on which side of the wall you start with the studs will get longer/shorter...with a sloping bottom plate this is the only true way to make sure the top plate ends up being string straight.
We were a hands on crew, meaning I was the GC and micro managed everything since ultimately I was responsible, and problems such as this would come out of my profit margin to correct and also screw up my schedule..so I made sure everything was right at each phase before moving on, because I had to. Sad to see/hear this as it shows typical hack GC that wants to make a buck without getting dirty and has a huge excuse bag from which to grab to try and bamboozle a homeowner....all of which made my job harder since I had to convince prospective HO's that I cared and would do the job right (hence my inflated price over my "competition")...would like to think with the kudoo's we got I was able to change minds/perspective of how GC's are perceived and probably why my customers became life long clients even though I was on the higher end of pricing...quality isn't cheap, and that's why low bids are rarely ever the route to go...not saying that was the case here, but in most cases I've seen over the last 2 decades, pricing was the #1 reason people hire who they hire...and said problems typically followed the low price bids.
As for sliding the bottom plate, we did it all the time. We used 1/2" J bolts in our garage builds for example...but drilled 5/8" holes for them..this allows wiggle room. We would mark/drill bottom plates, once wall was in position we nailed off 3/4" thick lumber on each end of the wall and strung a string along the bottom of the wall and tapped the bottom of the wall in or out until we had a measurement of 3/4" from the string to the wall along the length of the wall. This method always provided a perfectly straight wall which is the wall it should be.
Like I said, your slab situation requires a modified framing approach, extra work..but it's what is needed and the way it should've been done...obviously short cuts were taken and all the excuses in the world wont cover up this headache, and finishing problems will only get worse if left like this.
bczygan
Well-known member
Hopefully you haven't given them any draws yet.
Was the foundation square and level and the proper dimensions?
As a builder, I wouldn't accept anything off by more than 1/8" in 8' vertically.
Framers should be able to correct foundation problems within reason, not cause problems of their own.
Oh,...I would have fired them both on the spot for their pissy attitude.
Was the foundation square and level and the proper dimensions?
As a builder, I wouldn't accept anything off by more than 1/8" in 8' vertically.
Framers should be able to correct foundation problems within reason, not cause problems of their own.
Oh,...I would have fired them both on the spot for their pissy attitude.
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Yes, but people that do this everyday have a different perspective and a rolladex of other's to call in to keep things on schedule. This guy sounds like the average homeowner, feels he's between a rock and a hard place at this point so is willing to put up with whatever because the wheels are in motion...progress is progress right? even if at the start of the job there are huge problems already...it'll get better right?? LOL We both know how this story will end from having to clean up these exact kind of messes, I do have some compassion for the OP and his situation, but I don't think most people realize tarps are cheap, and that they will be happier and money ahead cutting the head off the snake when it's already proven to be problematic, not once, but multiple times now.
Cut the losses now before they keep stacking up. This isn't a armchair quarterback situation where "we" all can tell a guy what to do from our lazy boy, it's just a fact of life. If the GC is already making excuses for this half baked, probably cheapest framing sub he could find...does anybody honestly think the rest of his "hand picked subs" are going to be any better?? They too will have now compounded problems to deal with since bad foundation+bad framing=everything else from here on out will be sheeot since everybody will be compromising to complete their tasks.
The old joke is finding a good finish carpenter is hard, because he's the last guy and must figure out a way to hide all the other trades hack jobs and make the job look legit. Been in that situation too, try doing stained crown on walls that are out of square, out of plumb, wavey...or doing doors and window casing on varying wall thicknesses around said opening that are also out of plumb/square, etc....it isn't fun.
MrMark
Well-known member
Titan HD's are OK, but epoxy anchors are way better by tension load tables. The worst are the expanding anchors. Just because something is allowed by some local code doesn't mean it's quality. Code is a minimum standard, not aspirational.
I would have done the poured in S bolts with a heavy square washer in a new build. I think oversized holes are a poor choice. In one way this gives the epoxy anchors an advantage because the holes are perfectly tight. The large overbored holes gives way too much opportunity for movement. If you've ever come back to hold down bolts after the some time has passed you would see that they don't stay tight after the wood shrinks.
On the blocking, it's not just to keep the wall 16 OC it's to keep the studs from twisting too as they dry out. The OSB on the outside is not going to keep the inside of those studs from twisting up.
If this floor is indeed sloped for some reason (I would have built it flat) than it sure should have had a flat and level stem wall to build the wall on.
I would have done the poured in S bolts with a heavy square washer in a new build. I think oversized holes are a poor choice. In one way this gives the epoxy anchors an advantage because the holes are perfectly tight. The large overbored holes gives way too much opportunity for movement. If you've ever come back to hold down bolts after the some time has passed you would see that they don't stay tight after the wood shrinks.
On the blocking, it's not just to keep the wall 16 OC it's to keep the studs from twisting too as they dry out. The OSB on the outside is not going to keep the inside of those studs from twisting up.
If this floor is indeed sloped for some reason (I would have built it flat) than it sure should have had a flat and level stem wall to build the wall on.
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Some good advice and building practices scattered through this thread. Problem is...unless the OP has an interest in the aspects of framing..there is no good reason for him to know any of it. Which is probably why he hired a GC.
Whatever the reason for the screw up, the fact of the matter is whoever did it, knew it. There is no way in hell that wall was sheathed without someone knowing the wall wasn't square. The sheets of OSB would have had to be trimmed to land right on the non parallel studs.
The GC or his subs F'ed up and probably will again...on top of that, he/them don't seem to give a rats *** if they do. It's your money and your building....I know he wouldn't be building a dog house for me.
Whatever the reason for the screw up, the fact of the matter is whoever did it, knew it. There is no way in hell that wall was sheathed without someone knowing the wall wasn't square. The sheets of OSB would have had to be trimmed to land right on the non parallel studs.
The GC or his subs F'ed up and probably will again...on top of that, he/them don't seem to give a rats *** if they do. It's your money and your building....I know he wouldn't be building a dog house for me.
Hallelujah, it's fixed.
I just got back from the jobsite. All 4 corners dead on plumb both ways. The racked wall was dead on plumb both ways. The remainder of the walls were acceptable, with studs no more off than about a half inch over 12 feet, and most much better than that.
The OSB was removed, the extended level used to plumb and square up that travesty, and the end result is very good, though perhaps not perfect.
It seems like the GC wasn't supervising and neither was the framer. I think the framers crew was left to the own devices.
Anyway, it is fixed and the trusses go up tomorrow!
I just got back from the jobsite. All 4 corners dead on plumb both ways. The racked wall was dead on plumb both ways. The remainder of the walls were acceptable, with studs no more off than about a half inch over 12 feet, and most much better than that.
The OSB was removed, the extended level used to plumb and square up that travesty, and the end result is very good, though perhaps not perfect.
It seems like the GC wasn't supervising and neither was the framer. I think the framers crew was left to the own devices.
Anyway, it is fixed and the trusses go up tomorrow!
See what you just said? I would like to find the lumber coated in unicorn pee that doesn't shrink overtime, or treated lumber that is mandated to be in contacted with concrete that doesn't shrink overtime. Oversizing the holes in a bottom plate/mud sill that will be anchored by J or S bolts by 1/8" (using 5/8" bit for 1/2" J/S bolts) that will have the flat washer tightened down into the face of the plate provides a mute point since no matter what anchoring method is used, the lumber will shrink regardless.
Once you get the sheer weight of the building resting upon the plates...the wood shrinkage around the anchor bolts wont affect a thing, your talking about tens of thousands of pounds resting on a narrow wood plate that is bolted down...in a theroritical engineers world, that may be some kind of far fetched point, in the real world, it's going to take a car/truck ramming into the wall to displace it. It really is that simple.
As far as pull out strength, I prefer to have the anchored placed in fresh mud, I don't like any compression type anchor at all since in a high wind situation, hurricane/tornado it will provide little resistance to pull out when compared to a bolt that is snaked in with concrete all around it.
Fantastic, I'm glad they made it right for you!!!
HoosierMark
Well-known member
Nice to see your problem was resolved. Read these posts with interest as framing for my new house starts next week. So glad I live in a small area and know all my subs well and have seen there work for decades.
One quick point. A lot of posters said to fire the GC. Sounds good but I know one person who did and ended up having to pay for the GC for whole job even though he was let go less then half way thru. Indiana law says that the GC must be given the right to correct any problems before firing them. It actually was a framing issue that was the problem also. Moral is better make sure what the law is before advising people what to do, it could be very expensive free advice
One quick point. A lot of posters said to fire the GC. Sounds good but I know one person who did and ended up having to pay for the GC for whole job even though he was let go less then half way thru. Indiana law says that the GC must be given the right to correct any problems before firing them. It actually was a framing issue that was the problem also. Moral is better make sure what the law is before advising people what to do, it could be very expensive free advice
MrMark
Well-known member
Are you sure about that law, or is that something you heard?
I would like to see it if you could reference it for me. Such a law would impinge on the right of a contracting party to freely contract and fire someone for breach who didn't perform. That law would essentially rewrite the building contract for the parties to include a provision that a GC had a contractual right to correct errors. Seems overbearing and protectionist of a lobby group if it actually exists.
I would like to see it if you could reference it for me. Such a law would impinge on the right of a contracting party to freely contract and fire someone for breach who didn't perform. That law would essentially rewrite the building contract for the parties to include a provision that a GC had a contractual right to correct errors. Seems overbearing and protectionist of a lobby group if it actually exists.
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MrMark
Well-known member
I thought you were talking about MUCH bigger oversized holes. If you look up in the thread you will see big holes being referenced.
This guy is in Oklahoma. I would want the S anchors in concrete, not Titan HD's. He got sold a bill of goods on that. I think you would agree.
As far as weight goes, a two story structure may be a massive load. A simple roof on a barn or garage, I can tap a sole plate with a big hammer and move it if the bolts are loose.
MrMark
Well-known member
No shear that I see on that building either. And no corner HD holddowns to transfer the shear load to the foundation. That OSB is not nailed for shear paneling and it is almost a guarantee that it isn't Struc 1. Oklahoma winds need shear.
I would do what I could to strengthen that building now while I still could.
Also, the cripples over the window are whacked off pattern and there is no double sill.
I would do what I could to strengthen that building now while I still could.
Also, the cripples over the window are whacked off pattern and there is no double sill.
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I am glad that the OP got it straightened out. I have learned a lot about framing by reading this thread. And I now know what to look for when I get my garage built.
And the general contractor ought to be ashamed. A professional doesn't need to be coerced by the customer to do quality work. They will do it automatically to live up to their art/craft and out of a sense of pride.
And the general contractor ought to be ashamed. A professional doesn't need to be coerced by the customer to do quality work. They will do it automatically to live up to their art/craft and out of a sense of pride.
fury9
Well-known member
We always use a transit to shim our treated bottom plate level level. Build the entire wall on the ground using a diagonal measurement tack it in place before sheeting, then stand it up on the perfectly level plate.
The GC is a nice guy but he has not turned out to be very competent. He does no real oversight or quality control, just seems to think his job is to schedule the subs and be a gopher for them when they need some supplies and he is around. When I find a problem, his reflex is to make excuses. I think he is timid with the subs for whatever reason. I've been the one that's had to monitor everything and check everything and point out errors from footings to fill dirt to concrete to framing. However, firing him would be more trouble now than just continuing to take matters into my own hands. Far less than ideal, but I think at this point I can get the building to completion with a good level of quality, and that is my goal.
Fred
Fred