Framing/ stud question

[Jimmyspeach]

Hello all

I'm building a garage at my home and we are ready to start the framing portion

I lail out the sill plates today and squared everything up my garage is 22x30 and

I'm 3/8 of an inch off in my diagonals


Question #1 I think that should be ok being off square by such a small amount??


Next thing is the wall height I decided to go with a 10 foot ceiling

I could just grab 10 foot 2x4 and would end up with a final height of 10' 4.5 inches or so

Question #2

Could I just use the 10 foot studs or would I have to RIP them down so in other words do 10' studs come in a uniform length when I measured them there seems to be a bit of varation in the lengths of the studs not much give or take .25 of an inch or so

Ideally I would just like to grab 10 footers and frame the walls up with them I wouldn't mind the extra few inches of celing height

My local menards would have to special order th 116 5/8 products and there are more expensive than the 10 footers

Thanks for the help

 

[PCustoms]

I would not worry about 3/8" at that distance.

I would cut my studs down to the proper length for a 10' wall, that way you can use your sheathing more effectively. Of you go slightly over 10', you will end up with a lot of material cut under 2' wide that is scrap.

Also, a rip cut is with the grain or in the long direction. You will be crosscut ring your studs. Best tool is a 12" miter saw, you can knock out a pile in a hurry.

 

[The Cobbler]

3/8 nothing to worry about .
cut the studs so you have them all the same lenght at least. you call if you want to go higher & use more sheething etc.

 

[JamesW84]

I would cut the studs to 10' even; yes they all are a little over 10' generally. Good problem to have, but I had to cut like 160 or so and mine were 18' 2x6's...talk about a PITA. I used a circular saw at first but ended up using a miter saw. Some people will bump them up against a flat surface and cut several studs at one time with the circular saw.

You may not need to worry about the 3/8, but it seems like if you just bump it a little on the other corner that it should even out.

 

[mitusa]

Are you going to use 4'x10' sheetrock???

 

[dfiler2]

You can buy 10' pre-cuts, they are usually 116 5/8"

 

[scottydosnntkno]

Square wise no Problem. Thats like a teeny bit off on your sheathing. Cut your top and bottom stills to proper length, let the sheeting hang 1/4-3/8 short in the corner, put your tyvek up and put up your siding. You will want to push or pull your top plates square with straps to make your trusses easier, but at 10’ height should be no problem.

For the studs, just buy precut 116-5/8 studs. If Home Depot doesn’t have them, they can get them. Or a local lumberyard. A precut 116-5/8 will actually be cheaper than a full 10’ since it’s less board feet. And they all come cut +/- 1/16 unlike full length lumber. Which is plenty accurate for rough framing. Plus rather than needing a 4.5” rip of sheathing you use two full four filters and one sheet ripped in half.

 

[Jimmyspeach]

I didn't even think about the aspect of the sheet rock.

I'm just going to RIP them to 116 5/8 with the miter also I'm just going to make a jig for the cuts

 

[DFB]

I didn't even think about the aspect of the sheet rock.

I'm just going to RIP them to 116 5/8 with the miter also I'm just going to make a jig for the cuts

I really hate to the stickler guy for terminology here today

but you actually be crosscutting them not ripping them

 

[matt_i]

I don't think the 3/8" mentioned on the diagonals will be even noticeable at the end.

I also setup a mitersaw station and cut all of the 10' framing timber to length, squared one end first with a small slice and then went to actual dimension. It takes extra time but I think the walls come out more uniform as there are no gaps.

I would recommend a HDG = hot dipped galvanized nail for going thru the treated bottom plate into the studs. Standard electrogalvanized or bright-common nails aren't the right choice for the potentially corrosive treatment in my opinion.

 

[Marctrees]

Yup, Hot Dipped.

The fastener box will clearly show if suitable for use in Treated,

Electro galvanized is NOT approved.

And Yup, it's "Crosscut".

Marc

 

[mike93lx]

I would recommend a HDG = hot dipped galvanized nail for going thru the treated bottom plate into the studs. Standard electrogalvanized or bright-common nails aren't the right choice for the potentially corrosive treatment in my opinion.

There is no opinion on the nails... Bright nails are 100% the wrong nail for anything treated. They will corrode away over time and are not code compliant anywhere.

I use galvanized ring shanks for everything in my framing gun just to keep it simple.

Also, to the OP, I would snap out my walls square, instead of building to the foundation.

3/8 isn't huge at that size, but you have one chance to get this right and if you take time to make sure everything is plumb and square, your errors won't telegraph and grow when you get up to the roof. Spending all the time to build this and then be screwing around with an out of square roof is hack work and frustrating.

Plumb, square and true. At every step

 

[spudley]

Have you talked to a local lumber yard? You might be surprised at their prices and I'm betting far better lumber quality than Menards. Most small yards will deliver.

I "crosscut" every stud in my build, and enjoyed the smell of the sawdust. Unless you're a production builder, it's not a very big deal.

 

[casmurbax]

Did you buy your lumber already? If you didn't why not buy the shorter 2x4's that were recommended? Why work harder?

As mike93lx has mentioned square the sill plate, don't use the lab to square to.

Is this detached? Are you going to have power out there?

 

[brownbagg]

if your doing ten feet walls you need ten with the sill and double header included, so the plywood will work, not just ten studs, it will be 9 ft 7.5 studs

 

[Falcon67]

>I'm 3/8 of an inch off in my diagonals

Mine was 6" - what's your problem?

 

[mike93lx]

>I'm 3/8 of an inch off in my diagonals

Mine was 6" - what's your problem?

Both are wrong. What's your problem?

There is no reason to not correct for the 3/8 out of square. That is an easy fix. Not even remotely comparable to being 6" out.

 

[PCustoms]

3/8 at that distance could be sag in the tape.

Though I now realize OP hasn't framed walls yet, so not sure what he is measuring to. Easy to bump the wall into the correct spot once he frames.

 

[finn]

Use the precut stude. They will be dimenthe correct length for commercially available sheathing, and cut to an exact length, while a common 2x4x10 construction grade will only be an approximate length, so each one will have to be individually measured and cut, a huge time waster and entry point for errors.

The 2/8” out of square on a building that size is trivial. If you are truly **** about accuracy, you could, as others said, compensate when laying out the sill plates on the slab, but, by the time you are done with the project, you will be off more than that trivial amount in a dozen or more measurements. Especially I’d this is your first build.

This is carpentry, not nuclear physics.

 

[napaul]

I don't understand why settle for out of square when work hasn't commenced yet. whether its 3/8 or 6" the fact you know ahead of time and have chance to correct it doesn't make sense to leave it with such an easy fix. why wouldn't you? as for the extra 4 1/2" of height sure every inch helps if your willing to do the extra work of ripping sheeting down and whatever you cover the inside with.

 

[cdestuck]

There is a faster way to trim them then using a miter saw. Lay 20 of them or so onto your garage floor with the one end laying on top of a perpendicular 2x4 several inches back from the ends of the 2 x 4‘s you’re cutting. Snap a string line at your desired length across all 20 studs. Then using a circular saw just cross cut them all to length.

 

[wrenchguy]

Sounds with this o-p it may be 6" out square at the 10' height. 2me he needs experienced help on site. Also i believe its only 3/16 out sq.

 

[mike93lx]

Sounds with this o-p it may be 6" out square at the 10' height. 2me he needs experienced help on site. Also i believe its only 5/16 outs sq.

Where are you getting that from?

 

[wrenchguy]

Where are you getting that from?

meant 3/16" out sq. which is 1/2 of his diagonal. corrected.

 

[Marctrees]

When you square your bottom plate, ALSO string line it to confirm bottom plates each side of building are STRAIGHT before final fastening.

Marc

 

[gunguy]

^This^ Errors tend to compound themselves as you progress in the build. Take a few minutes now to square it up and you won't have wonder why an edge doesn't land on a stud or some such.

For a pro, 3/8" may not seem like much because they've dealt with it before and know how to compensate for it. Unless you fall into this category, fix it now and keep your level and square handy. Check often.

Jim

 

[Dave Nelson]

There is a faster way to trim them then using a miter saw. Lay 20 of them or so onto your garage floor with the one end laying on top of a perpendicular 2x4 several inches back from the ends of the 2 x 4‘s you’re cutting. Snap a string line at your desired length across all 20 studs. Then using a circular saw just cross cut them all to length.

This is the way I do it, quick and accurate.

 

[Marctrees]

Using the above method is great as long as the Sawyer makes sure to not only line up the un cut ends, but to SQUARE it.

If a newbie doesn't do this, later he will be shaking his head wondering wtf ?

Marc

 

[manwithtools]

This is the way I do it, quick and accurate.

All depends on the operator, I could see this resulting in a significantly out of square cut just as easily as not.

***** to have to crawl along the floor too, it's an age thing....

 

[Jimmyspeach]

Thanks for all the replies

Yes this my 1st time building a project like this

The best I was able to do on the diagonals was 3/8 of an inch off
For me I'm 100% happy with it I'm working alone and wish I had help so after 10 to 15 measurements and adjustments 3/8 it is

Now when I laid out my forms for the concrete it was perfect diagonals somewhere when pouring the concrete something shifted

The more I researched this topic on line it seems that most buildings are not perfectly square

 

[Marctrees]

OK, but are you dis regarding all the posts above saying to fix the squareness at the bottom plates ?

Are you saying you decided to leave it not square ?????????

Marc

 

[ddawg16]

3/8" is pretty much perfect for the size.

Sounds like you want to use 2x4's. May I suggest you use 2x6? You are going to have issues with 2x4's longer than 8'. A 2x6 is going to be straighter at 10'....and less likely to bow.

Additionally, you can stuff in more insulation.

Cost wise? Minimal compared to the overall costs. But the thicker insulation will pay for itself in now time.

As for the bottom plate.....A lot of people will put down the bottom plate using PT wood. Then build the walls and screw those to the bottom plate. One advantage...you have more nailing surface at the bottom (3" vs 1.5")....and you can build your walls in smaller sections (assuming you're doing all the work yourself)

Don't forget to put the weather seal rope between the bottom plate and concrete. Keeps out the water and bugs.

 

[mike93lx]

Thanks for all the replies

Yes this my 1st time building a project like this

The best I was able to do on the diagonals was 3/8 of an inch off
For me I'm 100% happy with it I'm working alone and wish I had help so after 10 to 15 measurements and adjustments 3/8 it is

Now when I laid out my forms for the concrete it was perfect diagonals somewhere when pouring the concrete something shifted

The more I researched this topic on line it seems that most buildings are not perfectly square

It isn't a problem that the building is off... **** happens. But now is the time to fix the issue.

I actually commend you on getting it so close. That isn't an easy feat. Great job.

 

[Smitty75]

Thanks for all the replies

Yes this my 1st time building a project like this

The best I was able to do on the diagonals was 3/8 of an inch off
For me I'm 100% happy with it I'm working alone and wish I had help so after 10 to 15 measurements and adjustments 3/8 it is

Now when I laid out my forms for the concrete it was perfect diagonals somewhere when pouring the concrete something shifted

The more I researched this topic on line it seems that most buildings are not perfectly square

Funny, I just put almost an exact post on both questions a few weeks back. Just finished my first framing job on my detached garage and ended up 3/8 out on the sills (best I could get without too much hang off in any corner), and made it up on the top plate which came out within 1/8 corner to corner. I can tell you that even as a rookie, my work was a hell of a lot better than the framer I hired to set the trusses. Should have done it all myself. And with the 3/8 and 1/8, all the sheathing lined up fine, and all doorways measure square and plumb. I’m officially dried in and have only paid for setting trusses at this point which is the sloppiest part of the job so far. I’ve cleaned it up the best I can, but still some issues. And this was a well referenced and not very cheap framer.

Take your time and have fun with it. And be ready for some serious lumber quality issues, I swapped out probably 25% of my first order, then another 10% of the replacements. Best advice is to run to depot and get 2 heavy duty long clamps to be your extra hands, I even gave mine a nick name.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PugetDude]

If you can easily measure the difference in the diagonals, you can easily correct them.
Two taps with a framing hammer on the ends of the long side and you'll be on the money. You should have enough play in your anchor bolt holes to allow for the 3/16" movement. If not, open 'em up a bit. It will take you less time to square it up than it took you to post this thread.
Of course, if you don't give a "rip" just build on a parallelogram and deal with twisting it into a square 10' in the air.
Good luck with your build.

 

[Marctrees]

Puget sed - " Of course, if you don't give a "rip"...)

I see what you did there !

Be Nice, it's Christmas !

Marc

 

[seanc_mt]

OP hasn't answered....

What exactly is out of square?

If its the slab fix it with the walls.

Build everything square and plumb or you'll be kicking yourself in the *** every step of the way.

 

[Marctrees]

Yup, and do the stringline all four walls also before final bolt tightening.

Drilling holes o'size is fine, you have washers.

I, myself, would drill and loose place ALL bottom plates and confirm holes have enough slop to square AND stringline... THEN number them and remove to proceed to build wall sections laying down.

I feel very strongly the bit of extra time taken to do it this way, will eliminate swearing as the walls are raised, and the build progresses.

I'm a strong believer in like pre staging and pre "Dry" fitting in most cases in any Fabrication.

Marc

 

[scottydosnntkno]

OP hasn't answered....

What exactly is out of square?

If its the slab fix it with the walls.

Build everything square and plumb or you'll be kicking yourself in the *** every step of the way.

He clearly said the foundation was out, and he was Worried about framing his walls in his first post with it being 3/8 out.

3/8 over 20-30’ is nothing in rough framing. All the guys saying ‘fix it now etc etc’ have clearly never framed more than one building before.

Even if he gets his sills perfect, being a first timer I guarantee he won’t have enough wall bracing to keep the entire wall perfectly plumb, especially working by himself without a couple guys to read levels and set the blocking. And standing 10’ walls up. Doubtful he has a 8’ level to plumb them and won’t try and use a torpedo or a 2-4 footer.

Plus, unless it’s a flat slab, the tape will droop 3/8 in that distance when measuring

But again, he also doesn’t want to buy precut studs, which are readily available, cheaper, and cut to a consistent length. He’d rather spend needlessly excessive time and labor to individually measure and cut every stud when he doesn’t have to

They call it ROUGH framing for a reason. You rough the building reasonably square and plumb, which 3/8” in 30’ is certainly acceptable, and then finish and trim it to look perfect.

 

[rayra]

I didn't even think about the aspect of the sheet rock.

I'm just going to RIP them to 116 5/8 with the miter also I'm just going to make a jig for the cuts

well you better think about it and CUT those ~10' studs to something more appropriate to match either 10' sheets or 8' + 2' sections RIPPED from more 4x8' sheets.
Single sill and doubled top plate, a 1/2" for ceiling drywall, with your 10' wall drywall but up against that and ~1/2" off the slab at the bottom, has you CUTTING those ~10' 2x4s down to 116.5", or 9'8.5"

If you DON'T size your wall studs appropriately, you'll be dealing with odd gaps and a lot of wastage in your drywall work.

/a RIP is a lengthwise cut down the long dimension of your material.