Framing walls....

[mowkep]

I have a pavilion in my backyard. Approximately 30 long x 10 wide. It has poured concrete flooring. There are four metal posts supporting one end and the middle. The other end has masonry block with wood supporting that end via joist hangers. I believe there are sandwiched 2x8 running the entire length. The masonry end is failing and I want to put a framed wall right underneath the joist hangers. It's 76 to the beams on one side and 75 1/4 on the other. The concrete isn't level either. What is the best technique when framing in this event?

 

[mowkep]

Photos

 

[rlitman]

Why a complete wall? Why not another pair of lally columns? You're just supporting the beam at the end.

 

[mowkep]

The plan is to enclose half of it to store the mower and yard equipment

 

[rlitman]

Gotcha. Just remember that you're supporting the beams. So all the weight will be carried underneath the beams at the ends, and no weight will bear on the middle. Which all means that it's not really a structural wall.

 

[mowkep]

I didn't know if I could prefabricate the wall and then shim under the high side or set bottom sill and then attach the studs individually...if that makes sense. I'll be using two boards on the top side.....like a load bearing wall

 

[mowkep]

I guess what I'm also not telling you is that whole end will be knocked out too.....since it is failing

 

[Cruzan80]

I would do my best to make each section of wall touch at the top and bottom. Essentially build a wall where one end is higher than the other. The less shimming required, the more structurally sound it would be. Figure out your stud spacing, and then record a measurement at each point. Or, since this is GJ, and some of us are crazy ocd, figure out your stud spacing and then measure .75" on either side of that, so you know at what height/angle to cut the studs.

Sent from my Phone 2 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Thebigtarget]

Good idea

 

[Innovate1]

I didn't know if I could prefabricate the wall and then shim under the high side or set bottom sill and then attach the studs individually...if that makes sense. I'll be using two boards on the top side.....like a load bearing wall

Two top plates seems like a waste and makes it harder to fasten the wall to the beams. I would just use one top plate and then nail up through the plate into the beam. I would build the wall and tip it into place. Make it just slightly short by say 1/8 - 1/4 inch and then put a shim at the points you attach the upper plate to the wall.

 

[nadogail]

Two top plates seems like a waste and makes it harder to fasten the wall to the beams. I would just use one top plate and then nail up through the plate into the beam. I would build the wall and tip it into place. Make it just slightly short by say 1/8 - 1/4 inch and then put a shim at the points you attach the upper plate to the wall.

It has been in my experience that every house remodeling job requires a bundle of shingles, to shim things.

 

[mowkep]

I had thought about just using 4x4 posts in the corners and then putting a wall between them

 

[ZRX61]

Given that the steel posts aren't directly under the 2x8's means installing the side walls under them will be a piece of cake.
I'd do the two side walls first, demo the masonry & then build the end wall.


PT bottom plates & notch the top plates to clear the brackets on the side of the steel posts.

 

[AllenV]

If I understand the structure, the masonry end wall is the only thing handling sheer loads (wind loads). Please be careful to include sheer loads in your modified design. We recently had the spectacle in our neighborhood of a car port being built using only 6 poles. Within a few weeks it was completely torn down and replaced by a design incorporating a storage room on one end. The box form of the storage room handled sheer loads in both directions.

 

[firebirdparts]

It’s a matter of preference, but I would just do it the hard way. I’d cut every stud a different length.

You do need to consider and strengthen it against shear loads, that is true. That’s easy to do.

 

[jkuro]

Two 4x4 posts or two Lally coulmans under the beams, then build your wall around them. This would keep everything stable and allow you to shim your new wall easier.

 

[fourbyford]

I agree with post #15... set top and bottom plates and cut each stud to length... toe-nail in place... the sheathing will secure each stud.

Here's the big question... since the masonry wall is failing... what are you using as a foundation to build this wall on?? If it's just a slab, I think you'll be setting yourself up for another failure...

...D

 

[mowkep]

I agree with post #15... set top and bottom plates and cut each stud to length... toe-nail in place... the sheathing will secure each stud.

Here's the big question... since the masonry wall is failing... what are you using as a foundation to build this wall on?? If it's just a slab, I think you'll be setting yourself up for another failure...

...D

The (4) stud walls I will be installing to enclose half off the structure as a storage shed will be sitting on a slab. The metal posts will remain. The block masonry has lumber tied to it and the beams tied to that. This pavilion structure was probably built late 70's or early 80's. If the slab hasn't failed by now.....why it suddenly fail?

 

[fourbyford]

No way I can know all the details... trying to pick up as much as I can from your posts. You mentioned a block wall was supporting one end of the roof. It is customary to build block walls on some sort of footing... because of the weight of the wall and the load it supports. I realize the roof may not be that large or heavy but, it seems you're expecting the slab to carry the weight of the new walls and roof... as you remove the block wall.

A couple more questions... how thick is the slab? Is there any steel reinforcement? What loads do you commonly experience where you live? Wind? Snow?? Tornados/Hurricanes? A lot needs to be considered when you take on a project such as this.

That said, this IS your project. You asked for opinions... I gave mine. You can take it... or leave it... no worries.

All the best with your project!

...D

 

[mowkep]

No way I can know all the details... trying to pick up as much as I can from your posts. You mentioned a block wall was supporting one end of the roof. It is customary to build block walls on some sort of footing... because of the weight of the wall and the load it supports. I realize the roof may not be that large or heavy but, it seems you're expecting the slab to carry the weight of the new walls and roof... as you remove the block wall.

A couple more questions... how thick is the slab? Is there any steel reinforcement? What loads do you commonly experience where you live? Wind? Snow?? Tornados/Hurricanes? A lot needs to be considered when you take on a project such as this.

That said, this IS your project. You asked for opinions... I gave mine. You can take it... or leave it... no worries.

All the best with your project!

...D

I appreciate all of the input. I want to consider every aspect before I proceed. This was built before my time on the property, so I don't have answers for a lot it.
I'm in NEO so lake effect snow is always a consideration. My BIL is a carpenter. I'll pick his brain to see what he thinks. He also may have had a hand in building the original structure.

 

[mowkep]

So we framed in 3 of the walls this weekend. Tied the side walls directly into the sandwiched beams and tied the rear wall into the joists. Spent a good part of the day trying to dismantle the structure with the mason from the part that will be the shed/pavilion. The cement block structure has it's own roof which is below the other roof by the width of a 2 by 4. (4 inch side). It's turning out to be a real pain.

 

[fourbyford]

Thanks for the update!

...D