Free Parking Debate

[MC]

There have been several of you who have offered up some constructive criticism over the closing of the Free Parking section. However, there has also been a lot of static noise.

So, for those of you who are truly interested, I'd like to open this thread and ask you to respond constructively as to why free parking should come back or stay away.

Regardless of what happens, political and religious discussions will no longer be allowed on this forum and will immediately be deleted.

 

[wrenchr]

There have been several of you who have offered up some constructive criticism over the closing of the Free Parking section. However, there has also been a lot of static noise.

So, for those of you who are truly interested, I'd like to open this thread and ask you to respond constructively as to why free parking should come back or stay away.

Regardless of what happens, political and religious discussions will no longer be allowed on this forum and will immediately be deleted.

I agree with the politics and religous stuff, wrong place for that. I did enjoy the free parking section for off the wall stuff that does not belong in any other section like post a pic deals of yourself and so on.

 

[CAT_serviceman927]

I think free parking should be reopened. It gives us a place to talk about hobbies, brag about our jobs/family/whatever, complain about our jobs/family/whatever. I never posted political stuff for the simple fact that I have my beliefs and no one is going to change them and likewise, I doubt I will change anyones mind on this board so no sense in getting a ******* match that no one will win. However, if you did just post the rules in a sticky as someone else had mentioned, then there is no reason to lets us BS about whatever off-topic stuff we want. I can handle no politics, religion, etc. and I am sure a lot of others feel the same way. If anyone feels this is too censored/restricted, then they are free to leave. Too all of them I wish they would stay since I know they have good information that will be lost if they leave, but if they do leave, then it was nice to have talked with you all.

 

[rickairmedic]

Ok I honestly feel a free parking / off topic section should be included . I feel it is an area where peaple who frequent the board can get to know each other and share things of importance to them . I already stated in the other thread I frequent 2 forums regularly and hope I contribute to both as much as I can . I have met alot of peaple here and theree I consider freinds and its nice to know how or what they are doing without overflowing PM boxes or trying to PM 20 peaple to tell them about a great or not so great event in my or their life . I dont care about political or religious discussions so I am fine with them not being in free parking. I think maybe a poll might be a constructive way to guage wether or not to put the forum back also it might not hurt if you did put free parking back up to get some help moderating that forum . That would take alot of stress off of your shoulders and allow you time to work on other improvements you are planning for the board . I feel there are alot of good peaple here and sometimes you just need a place where you can blow off a little steam among freinds.


Rick

 

[Uncle Buck]

I never have had a problem with leaving politics and religion off the board, and I never started a political/religious thread here. What did trap me was seeing, reading and then getting pissed and responding to the political threads of others that posted them to begin with. I am all for keep the religion/politics out of it, make it clearly known to all (which I do not believe it was ever made clear in the past cause I would have gladly abided by this) that the politics/religion are a no-no and reopen the free parking section.

I still think there were several ways you could have accomplished this goal without bending so many, myself included out of shape about this issue though you could have engineered this a bit better.

And I agree, get some moderator help, I am sure many would be glad to help, myself included.

 

[Red Green]

I did not visit the Free parking section much but it would be nice for people who care to post about there children and pets and such to have a spot to do so.

 

[krusty the clown]

i agree with leaving free parking as long as it's moderated.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

I enjoyed the political discussions , without being on a pinhead political site , but , it's your sandbox .....

 

[tatra]

plus one here too for bringing it back..............

 

[Firetrucks]

Like the others, I'd miss Free Parking. It has its uses and was a resource for me more than once when I had a shop quandary (i.e. hydraulic problem or timing for a 302) that I couldn't figure out, but knew someone here would have the answer. Where else would you put a question like that?

I also agree politics/religion are private and no amount of bickering here is going to really change any minds, just make PO'ed members.

 

[autoist]

Whenever I come here, I go to "General Garage Discussions" then "Garage Gallery" & then "Free Parking"...occassionally, I might visit one of the other places if a topic interests me - but I always visit the top 3.

I don't do politics or religion because my Granddaddy told me that if I stayed away from 3 things, I'd be successful in life.....those 3 are: discussing politics with people I don't know, discussing religion with people of other faiths, and getting into another man's bed! so far, I'm doing fine.

I liked "Free Parking" because it allowed us to get to know one another's interests outside the garage, help if possible when needed, and just relax and have fun. I hope it comes back.

So, yes, bring it back - just tell us what rules to which you want us to conform.

 

[cdent]

MC, I'd vote yes to Free Parking, because I enjoyed it. I think it's about real people in real life. There were a lot of interesting topics, but topics like pets and vacations are luke warm to me. Politics are touchy, but I see it as heavily influencing everyday life and our long term future.

I try to carefully post only comments I would say to someones face, and I don't agree with driveby pot stirring. In your shoes though, I'd probably drop the forum if it turned out to be such high maintenance. Maybe you could deputize a few long time trusted members to help with your oversite.

Thanks for letting me visit, Craig

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

I never understood why a person would get mad about religious or political posts.

If you go to a section,let's use Free parking as an example,you go to free parking and see
a thread about god or why a certain candidate is better or something like this, WHY would you even select the thread if you don't care for the topic.If i see a thread entitled why do you vote, and i don't care to read about it why would i open it up?????

I did enjoy Free parking,but i don't think it can exist again if we limit the topics as to what we can talk about. It's such a fine line.

Example.If i start a thread on why i love my family or what do you think about General Motors,this can easily be led into a conversation mentioning god or lighty touching on politics, I just don't see how it could exist again with such restraints,because what's politics to you might not be politics for someone else,then you're right back where you started from. If free parking was to exist again if would have to be free reign, which was mentioned that it would not be the case.

There are other forums that let you discuss religion and politics,so if thats what you want to read or post about you'll have to go there,want to talk tools and garages ,come here. Even tool talk can lead to politics when you get into a why or why not buy tools from a certain country.

 

[Stuey]

Since my very long and well-thought out and politely written post was deleted along with the rest of the previous thread, I'm just going to write in fragments now. (That, and I'm exhausted)

Other forums allow general discussion but forbid political topics and delete/lock potentially controversial topics - this is okay and understandable.

We're willing to abide by reasonable rules, and these rules should/could be stickied in such a general discussion board.

We don't "need" a general discussion board, but it sure makes things more fun sometimes.

It seems that the overall consensus is that "Free Parking" will be missed, and that the community would like it reinstated or replaced.

 

[Brad54]

Well, I certainly posted my fair share (okay more than my fair share) of political stuff...and frankly, enjoyed that portion of the site a lot, for the political discussion. But I wouldn't miss the political discussions so much that: A) I would stop coming to this site if they weren't allowed any more; B) not having them here would make me go to a dedicated political site, because those guys are all whack jobs and I have NOTHING in common with any of them (here we've got tools in common, at least).

That being said, I think there absolutely should be an Open Topic zone on this site. I enjoy the random pictures stuff (though it sounds like a missed a good one!). I like seeing someone's posts on the model cars their building. I like a place where someone can post a funny joke, funny story, or something a bunch of friends would tell one another that isn't specific to the general niche of the site.
I just had several very nice e-mails with e-tec about magazine article writing--he's looking for ideas on how to freelance, and I do that for a living. He pm'd me based on something he read in one of my posts on the Free Parking section.

I hang out mainly with car guys...but I enjoy talking with them about other things too. This community is no different. Or at least shouldn't be different.

-Brad

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

I never understood why a person would get mad about religious or political posts.

If you go to a section,let's use Free parking as an example,you go to free parking and see
a thread about god or why a certain candidate is better or something like this, WHY would you even select the thread if you don't care for the topic.If i see a thread entitled why do you vote, and i don't care to read about it why would i open it up?????

Exactly.

I did enjoy Free parking,but i don't think it can exist again if we limit the topics as to what we can talk about. It's such a fine line.

Example.If i start a thread on why i love my family or what do you think about General Motors,this can easily be led into a conversation mentioning god or lighty touching on politics, I just don't see how it could exist again with such restraints,because what's politics to you might not be politics for someone else,then you're right back where you started from. If free parking was to exist again if would have to be free reign, which was mentioned that it would not be the case.

There are other forums that let you discuss religion and politics,so if thats what you want to read or post about you'll have to go there,want to talk tools and garages ,come here. Even tool talk can lead to politics when you get into a why or why not buy tools from a certain country.

Yep, you got it. There's a lot of potential political talk whenever you start talking about tools made in China, India, etc, why aren't they made here, trade deficit, yada yada yada.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

There have been several of you who have offered up some constructive criticism over the closing of the Free Parking section. However, there has also been a lot of static noise.

So, for those of you who are truly interested, I'd like to open this thread and ask you to respond constructively as to why free parking should come back or stay away.

Regardless of what happens, political and religious discussions will no longer be allowed on this forum and will immediately be deleted.

First, thank you for CLEARLY stating what won't be tollerated. That is a far cry from:
"Hi folks,

I'm Marcie Cochran and I'm the better half of the Atomic Industry corporation. I'm going to be regularly monitoring the board...

Off topic posts will be closely reviewed, and if necessary, closed upon my discretion.

Let's stick to tools and garages!

MC"

Discretion, without any rules (that we know), or the ability to see things like the look women give, mean's we don't have a clue. (you can't always get or correctly assume a tone from writing)
I believe there was a request for clarification earlier as well:

I thought the "free parking" section was open to discuss anything. Did the description recently get changed?

Clear as mud, or the clarification of noise to criticism.

There are and were threads that don't quite fit in the general garage area, that could/did have an effect as to why people are here (What did your father teach you). As there will continue to be, only now, other things will be posted elsewhere, as well. (moderation will go up in other area's) There will still, unfortunately, still be the underlying political comments as long as tools and country of origin are discussed.
Unfortunately, as any time a change in direction is made, there will be fallout (members getting upset and either leaving or being banned, hurt feelings, etc), this only gets made worse when a lack of open communication happens. Now we are seeing the results and possible backpedaling.

If it is not brought back, what if any rules or allowment will there be for semiofftopic posts (aforementioned father teachings). Also please consider leaving that area searchable (how much drive space would a nonactive section take). All these and more will have to be discussed and decided, while implementing the other, newer features, that you "know" (hope would be better), we will like.

Thank you and Ryan for this board, and the ability to reasonably discuss this!

 

[hamburglar]

I just can't see how politics, which is basically just the interactions in groups of people, can be avoided...or why for that matter. Death of GM/Ford corporate and dealerships, overseas v. US manufacture, changes in taxes (just wait 'til they start taxing web purchases or the first major IRS hit on eBay dealers), lotta stuff going on.

Here's why I think it's a good idea to have a current affairs forum. Once all the Obama = good/evil stuff dies out a bit, we'll be left with sort of a problem. My thinking is (and has been for several years, so I'm medium ready for it) that we are heading into Great Depression II and some pretty nasty resource wars all at the same time. As usual, this sort of stuff hits working class people pretty disproportionately and I think a place to vent and/or look for ideas on how to keep your head of above water is pretty darned useful. The filtering you get by making this a tool site instead of a politically oriented one (just check some of those out sometime...man oh man those people are driven) tends to keep the practical level up and the lunacy out.

Over and out.

 

[LoneGunman]

Nealcrenshaw brings up a great point, having it come back and limiting it is going to be very hard to enforce, you'll end up banning a lot of people. Someone will post something, admin wont see it right away, people will respond, it gets heated, so on and so on.

You could also do what some other sites do, have a section thats password protected, access must be requested, the area is not moderated except for things that are illegal or something that can cause the owners of the site legal troubles. It's stipulated up front that it is not moderated. Bring back "general discussion" instead of "free parking" as "free parking" sounds like anything goes. Any posts that are political in nature or any unwanted subject gets moved to the "anything goes" section or just deleted.

This will keep "general discussion" the old "free parking" clean and non offensive. The only people who are in "anything goes" wants to be there and should be adult enough to handle a healthy debate.

 

[Torque1st]

It has been my experience that many people will come to the forum just for that section and contribute little to other areas. It has also been my experience that even users with highly valued experience on the rest of the board can get in "trouble" in an open subject forum. When a user's posts are moderated or locked or otherwise given a warning (especially in public) the board as a whole can lose an otherwise valuable member. An open subject forum even when poly-ticks and religion are not allowed can quickly go to the dogs. A forum like that will require more moderator time and effort as noted before. The high volume of posts will also use a large portion of system resources and bandwidth. On the other hand it is a nice gathering area.

 

[Vicegrip]

I don't post or read much of it and will visit and post the same regardless of what is done. I watched a local Porsche club board in my area fade out after the mods cranked down on the free area. Many that went to chat in the free area were also posting good info in the other forums. The regulars went to another board that was not harshly moderated and it is thriving. Unless you have a good info base this type of board fades out as regulars migrate elsewhere. Questions go unanswered or get poorly answered. I would not expect that to happen here if free parking were to remain gone.
On the other hand the political junk is getting out of hand on many boards and some regulars are getting mad at each other. Personally I don't like political signatures and avatars. It is one thing to not click on a political or hot topic thread but when you post on a regular thread with such a sig or avatar it drags your unasked for point of view into a regular thread.

It seems like more than just this board is having a hard time with the political threads now. I hope that they will taper off.

My vote would be to test the water by having a clearly labeled and rules posted general or other stuff forum and mod the political or other contentious threads out. If it is well done the members themselves will mod the folks that get out of line by letting them know when a post or topic is off base. Traffic is key to a good info based board, contention is not. A sense of community is good to have. If you feel like you know some of the other regulars you might tend to be more thoughtful in what you post. The "other stuff" threads often do this. Kids pets other hobbies funny stories and the like.


My boy wanted to add his opinion.

 

[CatfishXpress]

I enjoy free parking and think it should remain a part of the board.

The rules should clearly be stated. Then members that refuse to follow the rules should be banned on a case by case basis. There is no reason for everyone to suffer because of a few bad apples.

 

[ImportTuner]

I also enjoyed free parking; you were able to discuss anything, ask for help on anything. This made the board more like a big extended family ..

 

[DESTRO]

I liked free parking too. It keeps the other threads for all garage/shop stuff.
When you want a break from shop stuff, the site still offers something.

 

[slim53]

I enjoyed the Free Parking to check out people's projects. I dig garages but like seeing what people are putting in them. As far as politics entering because of cheap tools or losing a job I think it's our responsibility as members to be reasonably in our answers. Not push our opinions.

If it doesn't come back maybe a little more relaxed rules as far as what's on/off topic in the General Discussion? I hate politics and I'm glad there was an end put to it here.

Slim

 

[Merkava_4]

I don't care about R/S/P but I'm thinking it would be nice to have some kind of forum to discuss Industry News.

 

[MXtras]

Another vote to reinstate Free Parking.

It's off-topic conversation from folks that have similar interests and the topics are usually pretty down to earth.

Scott

 

[trackwelder]

For me it keeps me on viewing the board for longer periods. Usually I read other sections first then go to free parking. Then by the time I am done reading that section something new is posted in another area. It would be nice to see it back but if it didn't I would more than likely spend less time here.

 

[PAToyota]

I agree that FP should be reinstated with clear rules - if only because otherwise the general stuff just gets posted in the other forums.

I have to admit to mixed feelings about the "free speech" issue. On the one hand, people should be able to speak their mind. On the other hand, as HHolmberg mentioned above - you can get pulled into these discussions and get pissed off pretty easily.

I guess it sort of comes down to this forum board not being all things for all people. Similar to the discussion of adding forums for this car or that truck or this type of building vs. that type of building. We're here to talk shops and tools. Let's try to build upon our similarities rather than bring out our differences.

 

[elect]

yes!! please bring back free parking.I don't think the site is the same without it.I don't think there is anything wrong with well thought out discourse,and I enjoy all the radom topics that pop up,hearing the opinions of others with similer interests as me in some areas (tools,cars,trucks,getting it done yourself,hunting,etc.)but vastly different views in others I find interesting.I also enjoy seeing pictures of the same peoples pets etc it adds to the story imho.Please bring it back!

 

[mtwaterguy]

Free parking without the "free" is just parking. As I stated from the very first. It's your house, Just give us the rules so we know how to play. You've already said no matter what there will be no P/R, so what else can't we talk about?

 

[jimvannoy]

Free Parking was the first place I went when I came here and the main reason I did so. I enjoyed all the topics that did not fit elsewhere. This site without Free Parking will get old real fast. The other topics get/got nowhere near the comments that Free Parking did. If it's gone for good so am I.

 

[dawg]

bring it back plz
where else can you post generalized topics?
evryone will start puting general topics in other room which would have to be moved.
besides the political debates are pretty much over.

 

[ossaguy]

I will really miss it.I hope you can bring it back with clear-cut rules.

 

[Question]

Please bring back free parking...I've just thought up a new thread..

If your into garages your probably a "car nut" and like to discuss the other side of the garage after its built and up and running. Love seeing pics of other peoples rides and am reassured that I'm talking to a real car guy...

Your place... you set the rules.

 

[goodfellow]

This may be a mute point, and fall on deaf ears, but it needs to be reiterated. Yes, it is "your house" and you can do with it what you will. However, it's "vistors" that decide if the the house becomes liveable or not. Without visitors "your house" becomes just another piece of useless internet real estate.

As I stated in a now deleted thread, over 80% of the posts in a forum are made by less than 12% of the members. So if folks like Will, Merk, Jimvannoy, Billy, SpiderGears, Wrenchr, Moose, Nissan, hholmberg, Eschoendorff and a few others take their ideas and knowledge elsewhere, this place will die a slow death.

To prevent that from happening, I would advocate for a clear posting of the rules AND the addition of a few volunteer moderators who can keep an eye on the "Free Parking" section; thereby relieving the owner admins of that burden.

It's not a perfect solution, but it will make the "house" a welcoming "community" again.

 

[mtwaterguy]

Free Parking was the first place I went when I came here and the main reason I did so. I enjoyed all the topics that did not fit elsewhere. This site without Free Parking will get old real fast. The other topics get/got nowhere near the comments that Free Parking did. If it's gone for good so am I.

I have a commentment to fulfill to another member here. Once that's done I'll be joining you

 

[mtwaterguy]

This may be a mute point, and fall on deaf ears, but it needs to be reiterated. Yes, it is "your house" and you can do with it what you will. However, it's "vistors" that decide if the the house becomes liveable or not. Without visitors "your house" becomes just another piece of useless internet real estate.

As I stated in a now deleted thread, over 80% of the posts in a forum are made by less than 12% of the members. So if folks like Will, Merk, Jimvannoy, Billy, SpiderGears, Wrenchr, Moose, Nissan, hholmberg, Eschoendorff and a few others take their ideas and knowledge elsewhere, this place will die a slow death.

Even the moderator agrred that the Free Parking posts were more than 80% of the sites total.

 

[mikeyr]

I have to admit to mixed feelings about the "free speech" issue. On the one hand, people should be able to speak their mind. On the other hand, as HHolmberg mentioned above - you can get pulled into these discussions and get pissed off pretty easily.

I have to agree with the free speech part, absolute power corrupts absolutely and this site is quickly becoming over censored.

I also agree that people do tend to get pissed off with political/religious discussions and as a result I stay away from them. You can't change anyone's mind so why try but why kill free speech just because you don't like what someone is saying and you have the power.

As I said before, this site was my favorite site and the one I spent more time on than any other web site, with the Free Speech section now gone and even if it is brought back it will now be named the "censored speech section" I am not sure how good this site will remain for me.

As others have said, it your web site, its you playbox, do as you wish.

 

[wrenchr]

This may be a mute point, and fall on deaf ears, but it needs to be reiterated. Yes, it is "your house" and you can do with it what you will. However, it's "vistors" that decide if the the house becomes liveable or not. Without visitors "your house" becomes just another piece of useless internet real estate.

As I stated in a now deleted thread, over 80% of the posts in a forum are made by less than 12% of the members. So if folks like Will, Merk, Jimvannoy, Billy, SpiderGears, Wrenchr, Moose, Nissan, hholmberg, Eschoendorff and a few others take their ideas and knowledge elsewhere, this place will die a slow death.

To prevent that from happening, I would advocate for a clear posting of the rules AND the addition of a few volunteer moderators who can keep an eye on the "Free Parking" section; thereby relieving the owner admins of that burden.

It's not a perfect solution, but it will make the "house" a welcoming "community" again.

I would volunteer to moderate.