Fridge tripping GFCI

[yangster]

Hello,
I have a 15 yr old fridge that we have been using in the garage as a 2nd fridge. We just moved and when plugging in the fridge, it immediately trips the GFCI. The outlets are fine as this is new construction and our freezer is not tripping the circuit. I have tried 3 different circuits with the same result. It trips immediately on plugging it in. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Bill

 

[Milton Shaw]

Older refigs had leaking current to ground in several of the circuits, and do not work on GCFI's at all. The defrost circuit and the case and mullion heaters would often leak current to ground not enough to ever be a problem, but enough to trip GCIF's. SAlso they would get condensation in the wiring were it entered the cabinet and at the bottom of the doors. Never a short (15amp) but GCFI's trip at .005 amp or so.

 

[dbonne]

Turn off the heater strips around the door. There should be an "economy" switch inside that turns them off. The heaters get moisture in them over the years and will trip a GFCI.

 

[Aceman]

It's 15 years old, buy a new fridge.

 

[frankush]

Change the GFI outlet to a single receptacle and plug the fridge in. Problem solved. It is for a dedicated piece of equipment and thus meets code requirements.

 

[Ryf]

Change the GFI outlet to a single receptacle and plug the fridge in. Problem solved. It is for a dedicated piece of equipment and thus meets code requirements.

as long as its the only outlet on the line, this!

 

[Norcal]

Change the GFI outlet to a single receptacle and plug the fridge in. Problem solved. It is for a dedicated piece of equipment and thus meets code requirements.

Sorry, that exception no longer exists in the NEC.

 

[frankush]

Sorry, that exception no longer exists in the NEC.

You are correct. There must be an appliance manufacturer on the device maker's payroll. There is no way I would keep anything but beer and pop in a fridge protected by a GFI.

 

[Grumpy365]

Sorry, that exception no longer exists in the NEC.

It is not uncommon for municipalities to still be using older versions of the NEC.

If you are concerned about the NEC (which i personally don't care, I don't see how things magically become unsafe year to year ) do it NOW before a new code is adopted.

 

[Roots]

It is not uncommon for municipalities to still be using older versions of the NEC.

If you are concerned about the NEC (which i personally don't care, I don't see how things magically become unsafe year to year ) do it NOW before a new code is adopted.

It's not about something suddenly becoming unsafe. It's about finally recognizing hazards, which weren't apparent initially or better practices coming into play. The electrical code is a living document, it's changes as we obtain a better understanding. Unfortunately, it's complicated, and many of the changes have been introduced after unfortunate incidents.

 

[Norcal]

If GFCI trips that has a fridge plugged into it, 99% of the time the fridge is the issue, not the GFCI, I no longer see the problem in having a appliance plugged into a GFCI protected circuit.

This does not apply to most people here, but in a commercial kitchen all 120 volt cord & plug connected equipment MUST have GFCI protection with no exceptions, this means refrigerators & freezers are included, at each new NEC cycle more and more exceptions are being removed in other areas which I do not disagree with, what I do disagree with is the added AFCI requirements,still think they are snake oil.

 

[crucible]

I had the same thing happen when we put our old old fridge in the garage-invariably, it would trip the GFCI. I wound up running an extension to a non-GFCI circuit in the garage as a work-around.

Recently however, we had to get a new fridge for our kitchen (meaning the newer one it's replacing would be moved to the garage and the ancient one there being hauled away).

I should try it again with the newer fridge and see if that one still trips the GFCI......nothing like coming home and finding everything inside dethawed/bad/warm.

C-

 

[Roots]

If GFCI trips that has a fridge plugged into it, 99% of the time the fridge is the issue, not the GFCI, I no longer see the problem in having a appliance plugged into a GFCI protected circuit.

This does not apply to most people here, but in a commercial kitchen all 120 volt cord & plug connected equipment MUST have GFCI protection with no exceptions, this means refrigerators & freezers are included, at each new NEC cycle more and more exceptions are being removed in other areas which I do not disagree with, what I do disagree with is the added AFCI requirements,still think they are snake oil.

In absolute agreement. AFCI requirements are one horrendous mistake by the NEC with some serious controversy surrounding that decision.

 

[frankush]

I think any sparky would agree that technology is a driving factor in many of the code rewrites. I would agree that AFCI codes are ahead of what is currently available from the manufacturers and I think that is what creates most of the issues with them tripping.
Getting back to the original problem of a fridge tripping a GFCI, if the OP wants to maintain code compliance, he needs to buy a new fridge. I also find it interesting to note that in the 2011 NEC Handbook, in the comments section under 210.8 (2), it states. "Appliance leakage currents permitted by today's product standards are far less than the operational threshold of a GFCI". Of course, the comments are for help in understanding the intent of the code only.

I can understand the commercial kitchen requirement where new equipment is the norm, but I know of very few garage fridges that are not older units that have been placed there, for a spare, when a new kitchen fridge is purchased.

This has been a good discussion and brings up the matter of customer satisfaction. If you have been hired to wire a new garage and perform the work to current codes and then get a call back 6 months down the road, due to the same tripping GFCI, what would you do?

 

[Grumpy365]

It's not about something suddenly becoming unsafe. It's about finally recognizing hazards, which weren't apparent initially or better practices coming into play. The electrical code is a living document, it's changes as we obtain a better understanding. Unfortunately, it's complicated, and many of the changes have been introduced after unfortunate incidents.

I have yet to see a true instance of a refrigerator on a dedicated circuit with a correctly sized and installed breaker be a hazard that would have been prevented by a GFI.

You can play the "what if" game all you want, but to borrow a term, "I live in Real-ville".

The people who write the code are mortal men (whether they recognize it or not) who lose sight of that, and feel like they need to write code to justify their position (and sell more books)

The exception existed for a reason and was justified safe or at least determine the risk to be negligible, initially.

The way electrons move doesn't change. The fact they can find enough rules to justify new volumes every year (or few years) has to make the most faithful person a little skeptical

 

[Ryf]

This has been a good discussion and brings up the matter of customer satisfaction. If you have been hired to wire a new garage and perform the work to current codes and then get a call back 6 months down the road, due to the same tripping GFCI, what would you do?

if I was your customer I'd probably be glad you did the lions share of the work and wire in a regular outlet 10 mins after you pulled out the driveway. if its a dedicated circuit, I dont see why it matters, but its a solution looking for a problem.

 

[Ryf]

I guess I wanted to ask a question to the guys who are stead fast on the GFCI to fridge outlet rule, if a paying customer said, I don't want it, wont pay for it to be done that way, would you put in the customers way or refuse the work. not saying the rule doesn't exist, but in a world where other contractors of all types do half assed jobs and rip people off and break all the rules that do matter, is this rule really the end all be all for you?

 

[frankush]

I would explain the possible problem with a GFI install to my customer and let them decide. Their decision and the fact that it was discussed would be noted on the invoice as well. I would also never install a basement sump pump on a GFI. I don't feel either of these outlets are "convenience" outlets as they are always plugged in and a single receptacle and a dedicated circuit would be alot smarter. I'm not on the code writing board though.

 

[JakeKohl]

GFI's also can be bad - I would start with replacing the GFI device to see if that the one that is there may be a little over sensitive before moving on to other, more expensive, solutions.

 

[Average_Joe]

It's your house.

Replace the GFCI with a regular outlet. A refrigerator/freezer should never be plugged into a GFCI circuit.

If you ever sell, just take 5 minutes and put the GFCI back in, nbd.

 

[Norcal]

It's your house.

Replace the GFCI with a regular outlet. A refrigerator/freezer should never be plugged into a GFCI circuit.If you ever sell, just take 5 minutes and put the GFCI back in, nbd.

That is a wrong statement, there is no reason not to have them on a GFCI protected circuit, although I will admit to having the same erroneous opinion in the past.

 

[Grumpy365]

That is a wrong statement, there is no reason not to have them on a GFCI protected circuit, although I will admit to having the same erroneous opinion in the past.

GFI's can be finicky, the starting of a compressor or a high end rush load, it can intermittently pop the GFI. If this happens when your wife starts a hair dryer, who care, you hit the reset. When it happens when you are out of town and all your food goes bad, it is more than an inconvenience.

It also seems GFI's get weaker over time so as your appliance ages and needs a little extra to get going, the GFI is simultaneously getting older, weaker and more susceptible to malfunction.

 

[ishiboo]

GFI's can be finicky, the starting of a compressor or a high end rush load, it can intermittently pop the GFI. If this happens when your wife starts a hair dryer, who care, you hit the reset. When it happens when you are out of town and all your food goes bad, it is more than an inconvenience.

It also seems GFI's get weaker over time so as your appliance ages and needs a little extra to get going, the GFI is simultaneously getting older, weaker and more susceptible to malfunction.

More often then not, it's a failing GFI or the refrigerator is leaking current to ground if you are getting nuisance trips. High loads/inrush current/etc. are no problem for GFIs.

As Norcal said, in the kitchen the fridge must be on a GFI... I believe the same is true with garage outlets now as well. there is no exception for an outlet serving a fridge in a garage.

All my refrigerators, sump pumps, etc. are all on quality GFIs and not one issue. If a GFI fails, it gets replaced.

 

[Average_Joe]

That is a wrong statement, there is no reason not to have them on a GFCI protected circuit, although I will admit to having the same erroneous opinion in the past.

They are NEVER on a GFCI in a kitchen. What's the difference?

 

[Grumpy365]

All my refrigerators, sump pumps, etc. are all on quality GFIs and not one issue. If a GFI fails, I flood my basement, lose all my food, thenit gets replaced.

FIFY

 

[Grumpy365]

I have a serious question.

Can someone please explain to me what protection they think they are getting from having a fridge on GFI a that they wouldn’t receive from a plug on a dedicated breaker.

Now keep in mind, if you live in a home built PRIOR to 2011, you probably have never had a kitchen refrigerator on a GFI plug.


Don’t site code, just what HONESTLY do you feel you are gaining?

Are you that concerned with getting shocked? A REAL short is going to trip the breaker. So you have a situation where a motor or capacitor or something is leaking to ground. If it is grounded the breaker is going to trip.

Do you think ii is going to prevent a fire? The breaker is sensing the over current and going to trip to prevent fire.

So keeping code out list Positives and Negatives.







Here is my list.

Positive:
If I have an old motor or an aging capacitor, it will let me know.
It COULD prevent shock
It COULD activate before the breaker decreasing the time a system is grounded out by up to 1 WHOLE second

Negatives:
You can probably site in YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE at least one occasion where one has gone bad, so you KNOW they can be problematic.
Older appliances have insignificant power leaks routinely that don’t effect performance or cause a real hazard.
All appliances are getting older every day right beside the aging GFI
If one goes out could lose all the food in the associated fridge and freezer
The plug is typically behind the refrigerator making re-setting problematic. (if you weren't home could your wife move the refrigerator and get backthere to re-set it?).

 

[ishiboo]

FIFY

Har.

I'd rather my basement floods than myself or someone else is electrocuted. I've seen first hand a sump pump which leaked water into the top switch gasket, electrifying the water around it.

I am better protected than most though, I have two sump pumps, each with their own level switch (one a built-in mechanical float, and another an external electric). Each GFCI is on its own 20A circuit, and each sump pump is on its own GFCI. I also have a high water alarm.

GFCIs are more reliable these days than you think.

 

[ishiboo]

I have a serious question.

Can someone please explain to me what protection they think they are getting from having a fridge on GFI a that they wouldn’t receive from a plug on a dedicated breaker.

Yes, you're protected against being electrocuted if there is an internal short leaking current, the only way a GFI will trip unless it's broken.

Why is the code there? Because garages almost never have a dedicated location for a fridge, so that outlet can be used for anything. Plus, shock protection for users of the fridge itself.

I agree, a GFI should not be placed in an inaccessible location... but I have no problem with a GFI on a fridge.

 

[pattenp]

NEC 2011. Only outlets serving counter top surfaces in dwelling unit kitchens are required to be GFCI. The refrigerator does not need to be on a GFCI outlet in the kitchen. All 120V 15A & 20A outlets in a garage need to be GFCI. So if the refrig is in the garage, then it's needs to be on a GFCI outlet. Norcal said commercial kitchens.

More often then not, it's a failing GFI or the refrigerator is leaking current to ground if you are getting nuisance trips. High loads/inrush current/etc. are no problem for GFIs.

As Norcal said, in the kitchen the fridge must be on a GFI... I believe the same is true with garage outlets now as well. there is no exception for an outlet serving a fridge in a garage.

All my refrigerators, sump pumps, etc. are all on quality GFIs and not one issue. If a GFI fails, it gets replaced.

 

[Norcal]

NEC 2011. Only outlets serving counter top surfaces in dwelling unit kitchens are required to be GFCI. The refrigerator does not need to be on a GFCI outlet in the kitchen. All 120V 15A & 20A outlets in a garage need to be GFCI. So if the refrig is in the garage, then it's needs to be on a GFCI outlet. Norcal said commercial kitchens.

I also said those requirments do not apply to most people here. The NEC has been removing the exceptions to GFCI requirements as each new edition is released, the fact is that GFCI's work, & are cheap & can be relied on.