FRIED: Welder - Vulcan MigMAX 215

[Chuzie]

My prized welder is smoked. Had it plugged in to same circuit as the dryer and it went ****. There is some apparent damage to the circuit boards, but Harbor Freight offers NOTHING in terms of repair components.

I'm wondering if it would be worth my while to find someone capable of checking these boards and repairing them, but I'm not sure who to approach. The local welding shop was no help as the extent of their ability is to order a new board and replace.

Thoughts? Suggestions?


EDIT:
2 years old.
Still sold by HF.
Very little use.

Maybe built a roll cage and a couple exhaust systems. Small projects. Was welding and she turned on the dryer then ****.

First pic you can barely see burned trace.

Additional pics:

 

[ducatithunder]

How old? Is it still sold by HF?

 

[The Cobbler]

depends on how badly it's fried of it's repairable or not.
A hobbiest electronics guru would probably be your best option. post some pictures of the boards so people know how damaged it is

 

[sberry]

Whats the history here? How old, how much use?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You said this is on the same circuit as the dryer?

When starting a dryer there will be momentary in-rush current when starting. This will cause voltage sag.

The voltage sag will cause the current to spike which was probably what fried the board

This is why welders should be on dedicated circuits.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

Damage doesn't look bad to me. I don't feel comfortable diagnosing it over the internet but I'm confident that if that were mine and I took it to my bench I could diagnose it and fix it inexpensively. Fixed my oven control board with similar sort of damage (though from a broken element in this case). Problem is, though, that you might not get all that cheap a price for someone to repair it for you. If you know a decent place to go that would take a look and quote you for free then I do think it's worth it. Electronics repair places aren't super easy to find these days as many people throw things away instead.

Possibly a bad transformer (probably not all of them)
Possibly a bad optoisolator, though that could be flux or conformal coating that I'm seeing that makes it look weird
Definitely some bad resistors
Maybe some bad caps (including possibly X1 safety caps)
Component on black heatsink is probably a transistor, hard to tell what it is exactly, probably not that expensive if it has failed

Board itself doesn't look like it has popcorned and even the burning doesn't look that bad. Alcohol should clean a lot of it up. I would make sure the char hasn't caused continuity between non-connected areas, but it probably hasn't. If any traces have burned, they'll need to be jumpered in a way that safely carries the amount of current necessary.

Obviously cannot fully diagnose it from photos and I'm having trouble correlating the top pics with the bottom pic which makes it extra difficult

Most likely every single part will be "jellybean" i.e. easy-to-find, though somewhere in there is likely some sort of microcontroller with firmware programmed in which might be less easy to find and hopefully that's not blown. But your damage is probably contained to the power input section.

 

[Chuzie]

Thanks for the responses.

Ya, the only folks I see around Orlando are cell phone, TV and appliance repair. I don't know if I will be successful in locating a true electronics repair guru.

 

[American Locomotive]

My gut feeling (based on where it's blown up) is that the welder sensed the voltage dip duing the dryer start up, switched into 120v mode, and then promptly blew up. Usually the way multi-voltage devices work, is they internally run on 240v all the time, and switch in a voltage-doubler for 120v mode. So if it switched itself into 120v mode during a momentary voltage dip, it'd blow itself up as soon as he voltage came back up.

I'd clean the board up and try to take better pictures of the toastes components.

You said this is on the same circuit as the dryer?

When starting a dryer there will be momentary in-rush current when starting. This will cause voltage sag.

The voltage sag will cause the current to spike which was probably what fried the board

It's an inverter welder with active electronics constantly monitoring incoming and outgoing voltage and current. It's not like an induction motor that will inherently start drawing more current as line voltage sags. The welder should not be capable of drawing enough current to hurt itself.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

Interesting thought. Not too good that they'd (potentially) make it constantly monitor the input voltage though, as there's no reasonable scenario (that I can think of) that someone would switch the voltage after turning the unit on. If 240(ish) volts are detected it should latch into 240v mode until power is turned off.

Guess that would be expecting too much.

You may have just exposed a serious design flaw; anyone can have a voltage sag in their line even if not on a shared circuit with a dryer. If one buys this welder and their power sags for literally whatever reason, is this likely to happen to them? hmm.

 

[American Locomotive]

Yes, it would be an egregious design flaw if it could change voltage modes while running. But it'd be an equally as egregious flaw if voltage sags or inductive kicks from motors could kill it as well.

 

[vavet]

If it was me, I’d take it to my coworker who is an EE. He’s not college educated, but he just knows this stuff and loves it. He grew up in a tv &radio repair shop. He’s in his late 70s and probably still works 60 hours a week.
This is the kind of guy you want. He would take it home, work on it for 20 minutes and return it good as new for a couple components worth less than $5 and then he’d thank you for the opportunity.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My gut feeling (based on where it's blown up) is that the welder sensed the voltage dip duing the dryer start up, switched into 120v mode, and then promptly blew up. Usually the way multi-voltage devices work, is they internally run on 240v all the time, and switch in a voltage-doubler for 120v mode. So if it switched itself into 120v mode during a momentary voltage dip, it'd blow itself up as soon as he voltage came back up.

I'd clean the board up and try to take better pictures of the toastes components.


It's an inverter welder with active electronics constantly monitoring incoming and outgoing voltage and current. It's not like an induction motor that will inherently start drawing more current as line voltage sags. The welder should not be capable of drawing enough current to hurt itself.

awww ok. I didnt realize it was an inverter unit and thought it had 2 inputs for different voltage.

I really didnt look at it very long....

 

[nadogail]

By chance is it covered by Harbor Freight's extended warranty?

Maybe someone in your area knows someone who repairs welders.

 

[The Cobbler]

as mentioned previously, some guys would love the challenge. it doesn't look too bad, but it could have fried other components too. hard to tell

 

[nadogail]

If your welder isn't covered, and you decide to replace it with a duplicate, an unethical person might consider returning the burnt up welder and claiming it was the new one that suddenly failed as soon as it came out of the box.

 

[wlderdude]

If your welder isn't covered, and you decide to replace it with a duplicate, an unethical person might consider returning the burnt up welder and claiming it was the new one that suddenly failed as soon as it came out of the box.

Or just buy a new one and keep the old one for parts.

Oh, and get the welder on a dedicated circuit so it doesn't happen again.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

Oh, and get the welder on a dedicated circuit so it doesn't happen again.

Why're you making the assumption that it wouldn't happen again? As previously discussed, there's nothing about this design that should have allowed it to happen in the first place, regardless of the shared circuit. If this thing had been well-designed, the only problem that would've occurred would've been a tripped breaker.

Buying a second one out of pocket is probably not a wise idea. The way I see it is you either fix it and truck on or you learn from your mistake and you buy something that isn't poorly designed to avoid the problem happening again.

There is nothing that being on the shared circuit will do that wouldn't happen via other methods. If a voltage drop on the line causes this welder to **** itself, then literally any time your power sags badly enough for absolutely any reason (shared circuit or otherwise), this welder could potentially die. Shared circuits make the voltage drops far more likely to happen on a regular basis, but voltage sags are fairly frequent either way.

What if he buys another one out of pocket, he fixes the shared circuit, and then this winter a driver hits a telephone pole in the snow, messes up his power, while he happened to be welding, and suddenly he's out another $800 (or whatever)? Oh man.

 

[Chuzie]

Will look at getting some better pictures so we can make a better assessment. If it can't be fixed I think we will buy a Hobart or something just because parts are available. I don't think this unit requires any manual switching between voltages and is just a swap of the cord so what y'all are saying makes perfect sense. Shocked there are not better protections. Yes, having it on a shared circuit was STUPID, but great point that it could happen any day for any reason from an external source.

More to come.

Thanks again. Very educational so far. I appreciate your insight.

 

[sberry]

I bet it's rare. Hobart has a long warranty but once it's off **** like that isn't cheap but they pretty reliable. Doesn't mean it will happen to all of them.

 

[sberry]

Some of the tv techs are good. If it's not a logic chip they can fix some stuff.

 

[Bretny]

Personally I would be looking at why this happened prior to fixing/replacing the welder. A volt meter in the welding plug while someone starts the dryer would by the first thing I check. Considering it looks like the transformer blew up I would say that voltage sag/spike like others have said is why this happened.

Not spending a few bucks on that 240v outlet for the welder is starting to cost alot more than a few bucks real quick.

I have a Hobart 210 (prior to the MPV 120/240v version) that's got to be over 12yrs old now. Its always had it's own circuit and never had a hickup. I believe it was about $800 back then. Back then you wouldnt even look at HF welders if you wanted something that lasted.

If you want parts available look up the model number of a 20yr old machine and see if they sell parts.

 

[PCustoms]

Will look at getting some better pictures so we can make a better assessment. If it can't be fixed I think we will buy a Hobart or something just because parts are available. I don't think this unit requires any manual switching between voltages and is just a swap of the cord so what y'all are saying makes perfect sense. Shocked there are not better protections. Yes, having it on a shared circuit was STUPID, but great point that it could happen any day for any reason from an external source.

More to come.

Thanks again. Very educational so far. I appreciate your insight.

We're you welding and drying clothes at the same time?

 

[Chuzie]

Was welding and she sneaked in and started the dryer without me knowing. She knows better. It's been briefed.

 

[ez-duzit]

Was welding and she sneaked in and started the dryer without me knowing. She knows better. It's been briefed.

This is not your wife's fault--it's yours. From poorboy-ing the original purchase to the amateur electrical supply hack-job.

 

[Chuzie]

This is not your wife's fault--it's yours. From poorboy-ing the original purchase to the amateur electrical supply hack-job.

Thanks Capt Obvious. You constructive contribution to this thread is certainly appreciated.

 

[Chuzie]

Here are some additional pictures for those of you that requested them.
Thx.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Thanks for the responses.

Ya, the only folks I see around Orlando are cell phone, TV and appliance repair. I don't know if I will be successful in locating a true electronics repair guru.

Orlando has Skycraft (actually Winter Park) where you can buy all kinds of surplus electronics parts. With all the NASA activity over the years I would guess there are people near Orlando who can handle this.
Hope you can find some options.

 

[Chuzie]

Thanks for the lead! I am sure they would be able to point me in the right direction to someone capable.

 

[Showkey]

Personally I would be asking* HF...to find a part on $800 welder........there must be returned product that can be scavenged for parts. Likely a warehouse full of returned welders ?

*Asking .....Is moving up the food chain until you get results. Maybe start at the top of the chain. Either way be relentless.........

 

[American Locomotive]

Damage looks worse than I thought. Looks like it burned a trace off the board.

 

[The Cobbler]

a burned trace can easily be repaired, but who knows what else is going on with the rest of the parts

 

[TractorJeff]

FWIW.
There used to be a guy near Louisville Kentucky who repaired Welder Boards.
I can't think of his name??? 2 or 3 years ago he did one for me......

 

[mcbane]

If it was me, I’d take it to my coworker who is an EE. He’s not college educated, but he just knows this stuff and loves it. He grew up in a tv &radio repair shop. He’s in his late 70s and probably still works 60 hours a week.
This is the kind of guy you want. He would take it home, work on it for 20 minutes and return it good as new for a couple components worth less than $5 and then he’d thank you for the opportunity.

Doesn’t “EE” mean electrical engineer? If so, how did you coworker get the EE license without a BS degree and two+ years documented engineering experience?


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[whateg01]

It's no secret that harbor freight stuff, like much of the import stuff in Amazon or eBay has no repair support. That's why people suggest name brands that are known to support their products. But people still buy the cheaper stuff because it's cheaper. If you buy cheap tools, it comes with the implication that if it breaks, you are on your own for repairs, including figuring out how it is supposed to work. Nothing wrong with that, but it's still a thing.

 

[nadogail]

Quality, Customer Service and Reliability are not compatible with low prices.

 

[finn]

Quality, Customer Service and Reliability are not compatible with low prices.

Unless you’re dealing with PrimeWeld.

 

[M.Brane]

I'm happy with my blue welders. Buy once cry once.

 

[DaveAndStuff]

Doesn’t “EE” mean electrical engineer? If so, how did you coworker get the EE license without a BS degree and two+ years documented engineering experience?


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Plenty of people have engineer as a job title that do not have a degree. Even a lot of degreed engineers do not get licensed.

My dad worked as an EE for NAA (now part of Boeing) with only a HS diploma for almost 20 years.

That said, in some states I think you can still get an FE and PE without any degree.

 

[JuncleJohn]

If you can afford it, I would replace it with a Miller, Lincoln or Hobart. If you are determined to spend less, you might want to consider an Eastwood.

John

 

[Bert_]

I'm happy with my blue welders. Buy once cry once.

I thought that too, but it's not a guarantee. I've looked inside an entry level miller inverter welder. It's Chinese inside and didn't last a particularly long time.

After seeing that I bought an everlast. I can buy two for the price of the miller. For the cost of a repair on a miller I can buy another brand new everlast. Just no way to justify the "better" machine.