Frost Free Hose Bib

[rakane]

I'm not sure if that is the name, but it had a below ground drop release that empties the pipe.

So my contractor pt one in, put a stake next to it and wrapped a flex tie to the stake.

The second time I opened the faucet I must have applied a bit of side torque, the pipe broke off. Now the house water is turned off while I repair this.

Any suggestions on supporting this better?


Meanwhile is a 30' Grady White.

 

[jdm5]

Not an expert, but PT 2x4 (or 4x4) into cement, and stainless pipe fasteners to the PT lumber?

 

[yeldogt]

They are designed to be under the frost line? So you end up with 3' in the ground for support

Google the install.

We are not allowed have them in my township -- they can be on a farm.

They need to have a stone drain ..... if the ground water is high enough when the faucet is off the pipe is open to the ground water ... if contaminated this water will be delivered to the tap.

They make a type you can install --- google Murdock hydrant

 

[PCustoms]

Grandparent's had 2 of these growing up, I don't rember any reinforcement.

If it's frost free, shouldn't that pipe be below the frost line anyway?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Frost free hydrant.


Some guys will (mostly inside farm shops) will put a section of clay tile at the bast and fil lit with a stone (think river rock). This should give it more support and a place for the water to drain into the ground without making a muddy mess.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Grandparent's had 2 of these growing up, I don't rember any reinforcement.

If it's frost free, shouldn't that pipe be below the frost line anyway?

Yes, that base should be below the frost line.

 

[Bert_]

Obviously the contractor didn't have a clue. What is your frost depth? Here in Iowa the metal pipe and valve would be 4'+ in the ground to get keep from freezing.

 

[rakane]

Thanks for the replies. I was out repairing the line to get water back to the house.

So I added used brick under and around to add some support, then poured 3/4 minus to fill the spaces, then more 3/4 minus to the surface, and filled the bucket with 3/4 minus. Tamped dirt and rock down all around.

I'll get u bolts tomorrow, maybe pound that T post in more too.

I appreciate the quick responses.

I live close to the lower Columbia River, a banana belt compared to you central and northern folks. It rarely freezes hard here, maybe 20° for a few days. It does rain. Often.



Meanwhile is a 30' Grady White.

 

[reader2580]

The hydrants like that I see in Minnesota are only supported by the hydrant itself. Here they need to be buried about 4 feet deep so there is plenty of support in the ground.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The PVC and the shallow bury depth are definitely the failure points. I can't count the number of hydrants like that I've used in my life and they were all solid as a rock. I've tied horses to them countless times.

Tommy

 

[Stuart in MN]

Plastic pipe is a poor choice for that elbow.

 

[Fatboy148]

How deep are the footers on your house? That's (at the least) how deep the water line and base of the hydrant should be.

Don't leave your hose on it in the winter. There would be a vacuum created in the riser and the water will not drain into your sump. It will then freeze in your 20 degree temps and split one part or another of your hydrant. If it breaks, when it thaws, your water may start flowing till it is shut off at the house or the well runs dry.

 

[The Cobbler]

I'm in the camp with " that's a problem waiting to happen again"
I would re think the depth, fittings, adding a securing post, or all of the above

 

[RVDan]

Was there any reason not to move it close enough to anchor to the building?

 

[samss]

Stainless steel hose clamps or u-bolts would hold the hydrant to the t-post.
+1 bury deeper, gravel at the bottom and brass elbow.

 

[Copymutt]

Add an antisiphon coupling and you’ll avoid back sucking whatever the hose may be laying in and it will self drain as well. $4.00.

 

[Dagny]

water lines go 8 feet down here.

 

[SALIV8]

I would lengthen and bury that horizontal below the frost heeve, and then extend an additional uni strut to Mount the hose bib to.

Uni strut has lots of different choices, like a 90* piece, that will allow some off the wall mounting options.

 

[sberry]

2 things, that is a frost free hydrant and that's a poor way to plumb it. Should have a section of rolled plastic hose prior to it.

 

[larry4406]

Add an antisiphon coupling and you’ll avoid back sucking whatever the hose may be laying in and it will self drain as well. $4.00.

Timely thread as I am near installing two of these hydrants now. One a Woodford Y34 (new) and the other a Cambell from my parents estate that was unused sitting in the garage.

My understanding of these hydrants is that air admission is needed at the hose connection to vent the pipe riser allowing it to drain out the buried (open) drain port. I will be installing Watts backflows on mine. The instructions for the backflow clearly state to open the vent sleeve for draining. See attached image. When it comes time to tie the water line to the house service (well) I will likely install a spring loaded check valve in the line as added insurance to reduce chance of backflow contamination to the house inside water lines.

I will be bedding the drain port region in a 5 gallon gravel filled bucket (bottom cutout), filter fabric to keep fines out, black poly water line (strain relief), and will likely use a garden Tee post or rebar pounded into the earth and the riser then secured to the post/rebar. Port region set below the frost line (30 inches here in Northern VA).

 

[LOW1]

I would never attach a farm hydrant directly to abs or PVC. Put 4 feet or so of galvanized on each side of the hydrant and bury the pipe five feet underground

 

[tom-ky]

Stainless steel hose clamps or u-bolts would hold the hydrant to the t-post.
+1 bury deeper, gravel at the bottom and brass elbow.

I was always told to put a brass elbow on them and a 6" or so brass ****** on them. I always put a t-post beside mine and clamp it, mine are about 24" deep lines.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

I agree, the bottom (valve) of mine are 4ft down. If I put them that shallow the handle and outlet would be at least 6 ft in the air. Seems strange that on that one the pipe is so short. It obviously isn't made to go that deep.

 

[larry4406]

I was always told to put a brass elbow on them and a 6" or so brass ****** on them. I always put a t-post beside mine and clamp it, mine are about 24" deep lines.

Plumbers around here just use a brass 3/4 elbow with male threads one leg (to the hydrant) and barb the other and then use black poly with hose clamps. That’s my plan.

 

[larry4406]

I agree, the bottom (valve) of mine are 4ft down. If I put them that shallow the handle and outlet would be at least 6 ft in the air. Seems strange that on that one the pipe is so short. It obviously isn't made to go that deep.

The manufacturers make different length units for different frost depths which if misapplied could make the installed fixture unusually low or high.

 

[yeldogt]

The units have a mark -- you purchase them based on frost depth in the area.

I will state again -- they can be contaminated since they open to ground water when off

 

[ALinCarolina]

With your climate you could do what we do in the South. Dig hole, few shovel fulls of gravel, place hydrant and brace it temporarily, add some more gravel, then place some plastic sheeting or at least a layer of dirt, wrap the pipe shaft with tape, add a couple bags of Redi-Mix concrete. Make like a collar of concrete at least two feet wide and 8 to 12" deep.

Only disadvantage is if you ever need to pull it out you will need to tilt the collar of concrete out too. The ones I did years ago with PVC pipes are still doing fine but the last couple had PEX lines to them and should probably be even less of a problem.

 

[pattenp]

Timely thread as I am near installing two of these hydrants now. One a Woodford Y34 (new) and the other a Cambell from my parents estate that was unused sitting in the garage.

My understanding of these hydrants is that air admission is needed at the hose connection to vent the pipe riser allowing it to drain out the buried (open) drain port. I will be installing Watts backflows on mine. The instructions for the backflow clearly state to open the vent sleeve for draining. See attached image. When it comes time to tie the water line to the house service (well) I will likely install a spring loaded check valve in the line as added insurance to reduce chance of backflow contamination to the house inside water lines.

I will be bedding the drain port region in a 5 gallon gravel filled bucket (bottom cutout), filter fabric to keep fines out, black poly water line (strain relief), and will likely use a garden Tee post or rebar pounded into the earth and the riser then secured to the post/rebar. Port region set below the frost line (30 inches here in Northern VA).

Are you on a municipal water service? If so, lawn hydrants may not be allowed unless fed from a backflow preventer. The vacuum break on a lawn hydrant spigot is really useless because the drain hole below ground is open when the valve is shut allowing ground water to enter the riser pipe so water backing through from a garden hose is a minor problem. If you want to protect the house water then you need a backflow preventer upstream of the lawn hydrant.

 

[Larryjones]

Yes, that base should be below the frost line.

The ole Google says his area has a 12 inch frost line so that looks about right. I would go with a metal line for a ways and bury it in coarse gravel. Maybe he can find a shorter bib so it isn't up in the air so much.

 

[larry4406]

Are you on a municipal water service? If so, lawn hydrants may not be allowed unless fed from a backflow preventer. The vacuum break on a lawn hydrant spigot is really useless because the drain hole below ground is open when the valve is shut allowing ground water to enter the riser pipe so water backing through from a garden hose is a minor problem. If you want to protect the house water then you need a backflow preventer upstream of the lawn hydrant.

I’m on a private well service. Yes to a backflow/spring check valve at the house source.

 

[yeldogt]

Are you on a municipal water service? If so, lawn hydrants may not be allowed unless fed from a backflow preventer. The vacuum break on a lawn hydrant spigot is really useless because the drain hole below ground is open when the valve is shut allowing ground water to enter the riser pipe so water backing through from a garden hose is a minor problem. If you want to protect the house water then you need a backflow preventer upstream of the lawn hydrant.

I have mentioned it twice -- that they can be unsafe (drinking). Especially with septic and private wells where you don't have CL.

 

[sberry]

The units have a mark -- you purchase them based on frost depth in the area.

I will state again -- they can be contaminated since they open to ground water when off

What does the backflkw do here? If it has anti siphon? If it is off and drains the stand pipe how does ground water get in the feed line?

 

[sberry]

Back flow is really for well failure. Especily for tank filling where air gal isn't present and for fertigaton systems. If the well quits, pressure drops to 0, has leaky check it can pull fluid back downhole.