Frost proof sillcocks

[yeldogt]

I never used them until about 20 years ago on a new build ... nothing but trouble since.

Does anybody make a good one?

I replaced the original ones the builder put in after they failed with Arrowhead and they all leaked out of this little port hole after a wile .. so two years ago they all came out and 1/4 turn Legend went in. I'm reading the Legend are junk .. many many negative posts .. although mine still work.

On my new build I would like one of the hot/cold setups and I need at least two more .. maybe three.

My places with standard outside faucets -- never an issue. I can't remember the last time I replaced a gasket. The freeze proof are a pain to fix especially if soldered in. PEX looks just as bad without a intermediate fitting.

The rap on Woodford (they make a hot/cold) -- too much plastic. Bad mounting base.

Why is something that should be so simple -- not. I need the frost type as they are going into area with finished walls inside

 

[readhead]

I've never had a problem other than replacing an occasional washer. Your last comment is confusing. What does frost free have to do with interior finish?

 

[yeldogt]

I've never had a problem other than replacing an occasional washer. Your last comment is confusing. What does frost free have to do with interior finish?

In an unfinished basement or crawlspace -- one has access to the connection. with the inside finished .......even with a pipe thread connection it can be impossible to remove. Required cutting out the inside wall.

 

[readhead]

If you want access put it inside a cabinet. Usually they fall in a wall perpendicular to an outside wall. If that is the case install an access door.

 

[engineer2]

I have to rebuild my Arrowheads every 3 years or so which is a PITA. Mainly because they get so noisy they drive everyone in the house nuts. I'm not going to bother chopping holes in my drywall to replace them, I'll let the next owner worry about it.

 

[alien]

I'm not sold on them. I put a ball valve inside a few feet. Shut it off in winter and open the outside sill ****. Never had a freeze problem doing it this way and fairly inexpensive.

 

[Liquidplumber]

Been a plumber for 30 years in a cold climate. I have worked on, replaced, installed hundreds of frost free sill ***** every single one was a complete piece of S&$T . In theory they are a good idea, I don't know why a quality one cannot be made. If you must use one Woodford is the best but the best piece of **** is still a piece of ****. Wish I had a better answer for you

 

[kwschumm]

I have to rebuild my Arrowheads every 3 years or so which is a PITA. Mainly because they get so noisy they drive everyone in the house nuts. I'm not going to bother chopping holes in my drywall to replace them, I'll let the next owner worry about it.

The next owner may have a good inspector who will discover the issue and flag it on his report. Happened to me.

 

[yeldogt]

Been a plumber for 30 years in a cold climate. I have worked on, replaced, installed hundreds of frost free sill ***** every single one was a complete piece of S&$T . In theory they are a good idea, I don't know why a quality one cannot be made. If you must use one Woodford is the best but the best piece of **** is still a piece of ****. Wish I had a better answer for you

Thanks.

Since the house will be home run PEX -- I'm thinking that simple hose bibs may be the answer. Just turn off the water to that hose bib in the winter and open the valve? Get the kind with a ball valve. The frost kind are not code are they?

Another annoying thing is when the frost type fail catastrophically -- they leak internally -- so the inside get soaked?

Looking over the plan -- I have one spot where I can install one with an access panel -- maybe put the hot cold there.

 

[engineer2]

The next owner may have a good inspector who will discover the issue and flag it on his report.

Quite true if he is smart enough to turn on the spigot and then then go back inside the house to hear the singing resonate through the inside plumbing. It's simple repair involving $10 in parts. I have one no-name Menards frost-free. It's a POS that leaks unless you close it firmly, but at least it's quiet.

 

[joe_padavano]

Another annoying thing is when the frost type fail catastrophically -- they leak internally -- so the inside get soaked?

I'm curious what this failure mode is. The only time I've ever seen this is when the ***** tenant left the hose connected to the frost-free sillcock with water in it. Naturally the water froze and split the sillcock inside the wall. Of course, used correctly, this isn't possible.

 

[bullnerd]

"Another annoying thing is when the frost type fail catastrophically -- they leak internally -- so the inside get soaked?"

I had this happen. My kid used the spigot after I had drained it for the winter. Cracked inside. Luckily, I have a basement window right next to where the spigot is outside. I turned the valve and saw water spraying on the glass....from inside! Takes a minute for your brain to actually realize whats happening.

As long as I drain and leave the valve open(ball valve inside)mine have lasted a very long time.

 

[RECox286]

There is nothing as good as having only one main valve for multiple

(read "all") standard hose bibbs (NPT) exposed to wx. Even better

is placing another valve on a tee to act as a drain just downstream of

that central valve. Even better would be to either have extensions on those

valves' handles, or a convenient hatch to access those valves twice per

year. Naturally, all pipes should be pitched towards the bibbs.

We used to drain both outside water outlet(s) and in some cases,

the whole house for winter, if it was to be unoccupied. Sometimes,

it was a real hurry-up deal when winter came a bit on the early side.

We ended up making many modifications, over the years, to piping

systems to make the winter proofing process easier and quicker for us.

Uncle Bob

 

[kwschumm]

Quite true if he is smart enough to turn on the spigot and then then go back inside the house to hear the singing resonate through the inside plumbing.

Or when the inspector comes back inside and the buyers/realtor/observers ask him "what was that noise in the plumbing?"

 

[yeldogt]

I'm curious what this failure mode is. The only time I've ever seen this is when the ***** tenant left the hose connected to the frost-free sillcock with water in it. Naturally the water froze and split the sillcock inside the wall. Of course, used correctly, this isn't possible.

We have imbeciles at our house -- same result. The whole "used correctly" ... I get it ... but they are really not "frost proof". They only work if you don't leave the hose attached .... the body of the valve is so thin .. I understand why it's the first to fail.

I see now they have some that say you can leave the hose attached.

I grew up in a big old house -- we had regular hose bibs all over the place ... I don't remember any of them freezing .. we had to fix the gaskets occasionally. Maybe they freeze in Canada. I do remember sometime in the 70's my dad replaced them all with decorative valves with either a frog or turtle ... they only lasted a few years.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I never used them until about 20 years ago on a new build ... nothing but trouble since.

I will never use them again !

When I had the galvanized replaced with copper, they put in frost proof. I have no irrigation system so I use the a lot to water the lawn. They did not have the same flow and made terrible noise at just the right flow !

I know this is my fault, but I have done it before. I left the hose connected until after the first "hard" freeze. I did eventually unhook the hose. I felt very secure, knowing the actual stop mechanism was well inside the house. Next spring, when I went to use the hose, it had very low pressure. An hour latter my wife asked why I had water running in the basement. Yep, the sillcock SPLIT inside the house and we had almost an inch of water on the floor !!

 

[The Cobbler]

....
I know this is my fault, but I have done it before. I left the hose connected until after the first "hard" freeze. I did eventually unhook the hose. I felt very secure, knowing the actual stop mechanism was well inside the house. Next spring, when I went to use the hose, it had very low pressure. An hour latter my wife asked why I had water running in the basement. Yep, the sillcock SPLIT inside the house and we had almost an inch of water on the floor !!

did this this past winter. and same results. I wish they made them to self drain when they are off. thinking of making some with 1/4 turn dual port drain valves

 

[SH7mi]

I'm not sold on them. I put a ball valve inside a few feet. Shut it off in winter and open the outside sill ****. Never had a freeze problem doing it this way and fairly inexpensive.

THIS
Also what I do and never a problem

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

I havent had an issues with the Woodfords I installed 12 years ago.

 

[rburke65]

I have had forever and never an issue.

 

[kbs2244]

I have 3 in a 30 year old house that are working fine in N IL.
Everybody does know the are supposed to "leak" as they drain out don't we?

 

[indyokie]

Prier are pretty stout, If Woodford are cheap to you - then step up to a commercial version, both lines have plenty beyond what you find in retail.

 

[Showkey]

Have not much probelm with frost free except a washer or two...........( not to derail this thread ) but those anti siphon devices that go along with the frost free valve have been nothing but trouble. Especially When they are not rebuildable or no parts available. Current home has 5 outside faucet have rebuild every anti siphon at least twice for leaks. The one in the garage pees back by design in the floor with every shut off with hose attached ( open or closed on hose makes no difference )

 

[walrus]

I have these in several homes, never had an issue
https://www.completeplumbingsource.com/repair-parts-for-300-series-mansfield-sillcocks

Not sure why its the sillcocks problem when folks leave a hose on in freezing temps.The Mansfield say right on them unhook hose in freezing temps. I plumb my main lines with 3/4 so never noticed any decrease in flow.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

This is the hot/cold one I have, had it for a few years it's been ok.

 

[sixty4]

I install the legend brand. Over time a washer will be needed but it's a wear item. I tell my customers to remove the hose and shut off the ball valve with weep cap and drain. These are FROSTPROOF not FREEZEPROOF, even if your pitch them as they should.

 

[like2wheel]

I install the legend brand. Over time a washer will be needed but it's a wear item. I tell my customers to remove the hose and shut off the ball valve with weep cap and drain. These are FROSTPROOF not FREEZEPROOF, even if your pitch them as they should.

Why even install them if you have them shut off the water inside the house anyway?
I use my hose all winter long...

And what exactly is temperature difference between "frost" & "freeze"?

 

[padroo]

I had one freeze on my back garage that I installed in 1983. There was no hose attached but what caused it to freeze was the fact that it started to drip after all these years and the small amount of water froze and eventually the valve would not turn. I need to replace the washer this summer and I believe it will be fine.

I had another one coming through the wall below my patio that I knew could never be replaced start to leak. I bought a new valve and installed the new stem in the old body.
The really long ones with long stems could fail if you are too rough on them. I can feel the shaft flexing if I try to stop it from leaking.

 

[D45]

I have never had one freeze

I remove the garden hose connected to each (and also remove the hand nozzle from the other end of the hose......these freeze and break easy)

I shut off the valve to each and open the sillcock to make sure all the water is out

I then use those cheap $2 covers and take them off in the spring. They typically last 3-4 years, but are only $2

 

[beelsr]

mount them properly so they drain the water out when you shut off the faucet.
don't crank down on them when shutting them off. tight is tight, too tight is broke.

We have 4 mansfields and they all go in the basement with 12 or 16" tubes. In 15 years, I've cleaned and lubed them once - had one go squeeky so I pulled them all and did some PM on them. They get used - one gets used every day, even in winter.