Frustations with Epoxy Coat

[Stealthpot]

Frustrations with Epoxy Coat

Coming here to share my weekend experience with the Epoxy Coat product and vent a little.

Late last year, I decided to build my own workshop in the back. I spent countless hours on this site trying to learn while going through the building process. The help and information in these threads has been invaluable. Thank you!

Now to the Epoxy. I decided to put down an epoxy flooring, and through all of the flooring threads, Epoxy Coat appeared to be the best do it yourself product. Being in Texas, I decided to buy the product online (now wishing I had tried a special order at Lowes, but that's another story) and I even paid shipping! Buckets came in the mail and I was ready to prep the floor. Spent 3 days cleaning, grinding and washing to get ready for the big day.

On Sunday I started applying the floor. 930 square feet and 2 full kits. I combined the A's together and the B's together to make sure the color would be consistent, and made sure to scrape the bottoms for every drop. The floor was divided into 8 sections that overlapped, each approximately 10x12. Everything went OK until section #8. I had enough of the clear stuff, but not nearly enough on the gray to mix it with. I mixed what I could and layed it down on the floor. Unfortunately, there a parts of the floor where I can tell its not thick enough, you can see hints of the concrete floor underneath peeking through.

If my math is right, this means Epoxy Coat shorted me product. I called customer service today and essentially got the run around. I was assured the containers are filled correctly, but there is no way. Epoxy Coat offered me a half kit at a measly $30 off, and still wanted to charge shipping.

I basically told them to forget it. I'm already into the floor $1000 (epoxy and flakes plus shipping and renting the grinder), and I am at my walking away point. Now I have to decide what I'm gonna do. Leaning towards sanding the whole thing and just laying down a cheaper acrylic floor paint. What a disappointment.

 

[red]

Sleep on it. And think it through before you do anything. In hind sight I would have divided the mixture into 8 equal parts. This way the thickness of the coating is consistent through all 8 sections.

 

[Stealthpot]

In hindsight, yes, dividing the liquids into 8 equal parts would have solved this problem. But, the kit says it yields 1000 square feet and provides a measuring stick for the 10x12 foot areas. I should have finished with a little left over if their instructions were accurate.

 

[Jeremy W]

I did sort of the same thing, I had 2 sections, did the small section and saw that I wasn't going to have enough. but by what they told me I should have had plenty. And no I didn't put it on too thick either. I did have a mishap and wasted some but was scared to try the rest. stopped and ordered more. floor turned out looking nice but I tell you it scratches easy. Scratches much easier than I thought it would, no I did not use the clear coat but was advised I didn't need it. kind of dissapointed to tell you the truth, I spent alot of $$ ordering this online like you did and found it was selling way cheaper at Lowes less than 30 days later.

 

[GarageEnvy]

I think some photos of what you're descriving would be helpful but all I can say is that from my experience Epoxy-Coat was extremely helpful and responsive. They spend a lot of time on the phone with me before and after I ordered and prior to installation of the epoxy and the polyurea top coat. I was even put on the phone with an installer for tips. As far as mixing goes, I'm not a fan of the mark on the stick method. It seems like others on here goofed that up too. I just went by the ratio and measured out each batch. I had exactly the right amounts and I had 4 kits that were all Part A batch mixed for color consistency. My 4 kits (16 batches) covered 1749 sf with one batch left over. That tells me I was covering a little under 117 sf per batch. At that coverage ratio you would have needed 7.95 batches so I can see where if you overlapped you'd have an issue. Mid application I actually freaked out and sent a family member to Lowe's for another kit but I ended up returning it.

 

[hardhat]

Go to lowes and get another kit or go to a hardware store and get a kit of rustoleum professional series garage floor kits if you can't get the epoxy coat locally. The rustoleum is a high solids solvent based epoxy that should be pretty close. Let us know what you do.

 

[Agusta02]

sounds like user error.

 

[Stealthpot]

My lapping shouldn't have mattered. 8 sections, 10x12 area each should yield 960 square feet. My last batch was short on the part with the color in it. I did not get 1000 square feet of material when mixed according to their instructions.

I did call before application and asked lots of questions. The people at Epoxy Coat were very helpful. But when I called with a complaint, not so much.

I did try to take some pictures, but we are talking about a gray epoxy covering a gray concrete. In person, its very obvious. In the pictures, its much less so...

 

[Stealthpot]

sounds like user error.

Please explain.

As I can see it, my only error was in trusting the measuring stick. But when it comes with the kit and its in the directions, how are you supposed to know?

 

[ishiboo]

Coverage varies a lot based on how heavy you're putting it on and the conditions of your concrete, humidity/temperature, etc. The cans should say it's approximate, if they don't. To give you an idea; I used Seal Krete's Epoxy Shield (from Lowes) which is an acrylic, and my basement floor required over twice as much material as the can's estimate and is still transparent in areas.

They're usually filled by weight and tested, at least most high-volume places, so it's unlikely you got less epoxy. They probably put more catalyst in than you need to be safe.

Now your option is to either buy another half kit for $180 and finish, or to spend the time to sand down $1000 of product and labor so you can put a far inferior product with less coverage/durability on? Sounds like an easy choice to me.

If you do that, you will only spite yourself; not Epoxy Coat.

 

[Stealthpot]

Coverage varies a lot based on how heavy you're putting it on and the conditions of your concrete, humidity/temperature, etc. The cans should say it's approximate, if they don't. To give you an idea; I used Seal Krete's Epoxy Shield (from Lowes) which is an acrylic, and my basement floor required over twice as much material as the can's estimate and is still transparent in areas.

They're usually filled by weight and tested, at least most high-volume places, so it's unlikely you got less epoxy. They probably put more catalyst in than you need to be safe.

Now your option is to either buy another half kit for $180 and finish, or to spend the time to sand down $1000 of product and labor so you can put a far inferior product with less coverage/durability on? Sounds like an easy choice to me.

If you do that, you will only spite yourself; not Epoxy Coat.

Hey, lesson learned about trusting a manufacturer. But the way I see it, I'm going to have to rent an orbital sander regardless. Sanding won't get rid of the epoxy, it will just provide some tooth for the next layer. And for the same price as another half kit, which may or may not be the same shade of gray (i need more flakes also), I can just lay down some rustoleum 1 part epoxy. Its $36 a can at Home Depot and has several good reviews.

Spite has been left at the door.

 

[bczygan]

Hey, lesson learned about trusting a manufacturer. But the way I see it, I'm going to have to rent an orbital sander regardless. Sanding won't get rid of the epoxy, it will just provide some tooth for the next layer. And for the same price as another half kit, which may or may not be the same shade of gray (i need more flakes also), I can just lay down some rustoleum 1 part epoxy. Its $36 a can at Home Depot and has several good reviews.

Spite has been left at the door.

You ain't seein' it right yet...........

 

[ZeroSignal]

I would let Christine chime in here before you jump the gun on anything.

 

[ishiboo]

Hey, lesson learned about trusting a manufacturer. But the way I see it, I'm going to have to rent an orbital sander regardless. Sanding won't get rid of the epoxy, it will just provide some tooth for the next layer. And for the same price as another half kit, which may or may not be the same shade of gray (i need more flakes also), I can just lay down some rustoleum 1 part epoxy. Its $36 a can at Home Depot and has several good reviews.

Spite has been left at the door.

No such thing as 1-part epoxy. That'll probably be an acrylic, and it won't be nearly as durable as the Epoxy Coat. They use terms like "epoxy fortified" and "enhanced with epoxy" or some stupid ****, it's just a marketing ploy.

If you're going to go the cheap route, at least get the Rustoleum 2-part... called Epoxy Shield. Take a chip of your Epoxy Coat and they can tint it very close. Otherwise, you could see if Epoxy Coat could get some gray from the same batch... it'd be an exact match.

 

[cgallery]

Just chiming in to let you know that I'm currently doing my basement floor with Drylok E1 "one-part epoxy." It is a product that I think it similar to Rustoleum's product you mention. I think it is even closer (identical) to Seal-Krete's Epoxy-Seal (another one-part epoxy paint).

THESE ARE NOT TRUE EPOXY PRODUCTS. They are acrylics. I believe they have finely-ground epoxy resins in them, but they use no activator. They go on thinner than a true two-part epoxy, too.

I have my reasons for using it.

But if I was nearly done with a quality two-part product, I'd take my lumps and order the materials to finish it off.

 

[Stealthpot]

Thanks for everyone's input. If for nothing else, I am glad I posted my experience for those still deciding on a flooring product.

 

[bluesman2a]

So let's sum this up:
1) you were happy with the customer service up to the point where you developed what you percieved as a "problem".
2) said "problem" is around the coverage of 40 sq/ft of material in a paint application?
3) vendor "gave you the run around" and yet still offered to sell you another kit at a reduced price to make it right.
4) you state the coverage areas repeatedly as if they are gospel.

I have news for you, they are NOT. In every painting/coating project I've ever done, I typically plan on an overage of 10-15% or in your case 90-150ish square feet. This isn't the company's fault man. They do their best to estimate how far the AVERAGE install will go. I can tell you my projects are rarely AVERAGE, and sounds like yours wasn't either.

 

[Stealthpot]

All good information that had I understood before application, I would not have chosen this product. Hopefully good information for others contemplating the same.

Just an FYI, when speaking to Epoxy Coat pre application, I explained the entire project including square footage. I was never advised of any variability and assured 2 kits would be sufficient. Lets go ahead and add that to your "summary".

 

[rugerlady]

Ok, I am in the office now.
First, you complain you paid for shipping, but you ordered online...how were we to know you were from the GJ and were not to pay shipping. You have to call to get the free shipping. We are not psychic. I also have refunded shipping to members that have called me after they ordered online. I did not get a call from you.
I am pretty sure, most of the guys that have read posts about our product know to talk to me, I try to go out of my way to give the best service I can.
I know it was not me you spoke with.
Why don't you call me at the office and we can go over your issue and come to an agreement on how to handle your issue.
Everyone here usually gives great customer service, you did not give the complete story.

 

[ishiboo]

All good information that had I understood before application, I would not have chosen this product. Hopefully good information for others contemplating the same.

Just an FYI, when speaking to Epoxy Coat pre application, I explained the entire project including square footage. I was never advised of any variability and assured 2 kits would be sufficient. Lets go ahead and add that to your "summary".

You're looking for a product where the coverage displayed on the can exactly equals, or has more than the amount you'll need solely based on square footage. For a liquid this is not possible nor practical. I think any discount because it didn't cover what you thought it would is generous for a company.

That's the lesson to take from this - square footages with paint, epoxy or any other liquid depend on humidity, temperature, your roller nap, painting technique, how thick you put it on, how long you set it up for (and thus how "thick" it is), and the pH balance in your skin.

Any of these floor epoxies are superior products to the cheaper 1-part products... you're being silly by saying you want to sand it down and put some acrylic over the top of the whole thing.

 

[Call me the Breeze]

I haven't Epoxy coated my floor, but if I ever was to do it, I would use Epoxy-Coat products. Christine ( as well as the other vendors on here ) Have always seemed to go out of their way to make the customers happy with their product. If you would have delt with her from the start, You probably wouldn't be so disappointed. There is enough threads on here discussing Epoxy-Coat products, and she is on here daily for answering questions.
Give Christine a call, and I'm sure she can work something out with you.

 

[Stealthpot]

Ok, I am in the office now.
First, you complain you paid for shipping, but you ordered online...how were we to know you were from the GJ and were not to pay shipping. You have to call to get the free shipping. We are not psychic. I also have refunded shipping to members that have called me after they ordered online. I did not get a call from you.
I am pretty sure, most of the guys that have read posts about our product know to talk to me, I try to go out of my way to give the best service I can.
I know it was not me you spoke with.
Why don't you call me at the office and we can go over your issue and come to an agreement on how to handle your issue.
Everyone here usually gives great customer service, you did not give the complete story.

Christine,

I just called and they tell me you left for the day. I left my number to reach me when you are available. But to your comments, no, I did not talk to you when asking for application advice or my coverage problem. Must I only speak with you to get decent service? That sounds kinda strange.

To all of you claiming that variability is a normal expectation of this product, you are not understanding the problem. Epoxy Coat provides a measuring device for mixing parts A&B adequate to cover 10x12 foot sections. If the product coverage was truly as variable as everyone here suggests, this method for measuring is a terrible one! The only way to get a even coverage across your floor would be to pre-divide the part A and B into however many sections required (8 in my case). This method was suggested by the very first response in this thread. Epoxy Coat does not reference this method anywhere. Their instructions are to use the measuring sticks.

I don't know why this concept is so difficult to understand.

Bottom line. If Epoxy Coat can help me remedy this situation, great! In the meantime, I believe its valuable for members of this forum to know of my poor experience so that they will not make the same mistakes.

 

[GarageEnvy]

We get what you're saying, you came up short because you followed their directions on how to mix the product and there wasn't enough. Now maybe I'm just in a bad mood or maybe I'm just sick of people who don't get exactly what they want, fail to take responsibility for their error and then attack the business they dealt with but if you read the instructions on the Epoxy-Coat it clearly says it will cover UP TO (and yes it is in capital letters in the instructions too) 500 square feet on clean smooth concrete. It also says if the concrete is rough or the application is thicker then coverage is reduced.

In other words, dude, it's a chemical product that cures differently at different temperatures. How thick you apply it with what type of roller and in what conditions over what type of surface will change things. That's common sense and it's no different than paint. There's no way they could give you an exact coverage rate or cure time under all conditions. I think you'd be crazy to sand it down and cover it with some cheap product to save $100-$200.

We've all made mistakes. Chalk it up to a learning lesson, quit complaining, deal with Christine, fix your problem and show off the pictures of your great looking new floor.

 

[ducati]

Like a few other members have said on here there are tons of different variables on how far the product will go. I have a two part epoxy in my shop/garage and it is 8 yrs old. I have drug snow plows over it, had diesel fuel tanks leak on it, beat the hell out of it, there are only one or two places that even show wear. Do yourself a favor and finish the job with what you started. Maybe look up the word approximately?

 

[ishiboo]

Christine,

I just called and they tell me you left for the day. I left my number to reach me when you are available. But to your comments, no, I did not talk to you when asking for application advice or my coverage problem. Must I only speak with you to get decent service? That sounds kinda strange.

To all of you claiming that variability is a normal expectation of this product, you are not understanding the problem. Epoxy Coat provides a measuring device for mixing parts A&B adequate to cover 10x12 foot sections. If the product coverage was truly as variable as everyone here suggests, this method for measuring is a terrible one! The only way to get a even coverage across your floor would be to pre-divide the part A and B into however many sections required (8 in my case). This method was suggested by the very first response in this thread. Epoxy Coat does not reference this method anywhere. Their instructions are to use the measuring sticks.

I don't know why this concept is so difficult to understand.

Bottom line. If Epoxy Coat can help me remedy this situation, great! In the meantime, I believe its valuable for members of this forum to know of my poor experience so that they will not make the same mistakes.

Even coverage is up to you, the painter... that's not really what the mixing stick is for.

The mixing stick is there because 2-part epoxy requires more brain cells than just regular paint. If you mix up too large of a batch, the heat will turn it rock hard in the can before you get a chance to apply it. If you mix the proportions wrong, you will end up with a sticky goo on the floor that will never cure, or it'll cure instantly before you get a chance to dump it on the floor

Best of luck on the acrylic!

 

[MR.T]

I dont think you people understand. The fact is not that he didnt have enough product to cover the floor. He didnt have enough of one part to finish his last ratio; this is where the issue of the measuring stick comes in. If you mix by the ratio on the stick then all of the material should be used on the last mix. You shouldnt have an excessive amount of one part left over. This has nothing to do with how thick you lay it.

 

[Stealthpot]

If we are set sail for fail I like this picture much better!

Ishaboo, thanks much for your well wishes.

Red and Mr. T, thanks for understanding my frust(r)ation

 

[54FordPanel]

I highly recommend Epoxy-Coat, and that's just from asking them questions and using their product.

Now, I've never seen how Epoxy-Coat puts their products into their buckets, but I'd bet it's a sophisticated measuring machine that puts exactly the same amount of product in bucket after bucket after bucket. It's not a person doing it.

However, the end user is a person who is mixing the products, part A & part B together. I would bet that the error is from the person who is mixing it by hand, and did not mix consistently equal parts throughout his 8 batches.

Ya think?

 

[Stealthpot]

I highly recommend Epoxy-Coat, and that's just from asking them questions and using their product.

Now, I've never seen how Epoxy-Coat puts their products into their buckets, but I'd bet it's a sophisticated measuring machine that puts exactly the same amount of product in bucket after bucket after bucket. It's not a person doing it.

However, the end user is a person who is mixing the products, part A & part B together. I would bet that the error is from the person who is mixing it by hand, and did not mix consistently equal parts throughout his 8 batches.

Ya think?

Nope.

But ya know, next time someone posts their problems with a product represented on this forums, I am gonna love telling them it's their own fault.

 

[54FordPanel]

Nope.

But ya know, next time someone posts their problems with a product represented on this forums, I am gonna love telling them it's their own fault.

Do you think, mixing 8 batches, that you possibly mixed them in the wrong ratio, versus the machine at Epoxy-Coat who's only purpose is to put the exact same amount of product in every bucket?

Imagine the scenario where you reused the same mixing bucket batch after batch. Imagine there's a small amount of mixed product left in the bucket after you apply every batch.
Then you pour in Part A to the measuring stick.
Then you pour in Part B to the measuring stick.
Can you imagine where you might end up with more part A than Part B, and can you think of a reason why?

 

[Stealthpot]

Do you think, mixing 8 batches, that you possibly mixed them in the wrong ratio, versus the machine at Epoxy-Coat who's only purpose is to put the exact same amount of product in every bucket?

I have no idea what they use at Epoxy Coat, do you?

Yes, I am confident I had the same amount in each bucket give or take an ounce. I was very critical and had my helper confirm the levels were filled to each line on the stick.

 

[Stealthpot]

Imagine the scenario where you reused the same mixing bucket batch after batch. Imagine there's a small amount of mixed product left in the bucket after you apply every batch.
Then you pour in Part A to the measuring stick.
Then you pour in Part B to the measuring stick.
Can you imagine where you might end up with more part A than Part B, and can you think of a reason why?

I specifically asked Epoxy Coat about that one. They confirmed that using the same bucket was appropriate because the batch before it would have started setting up in the bottom. Remember, its all relative.

But you know what, I do appreciate your thought process. Thank you for trying to work through the steps and offering possibilities as opposed to just pointing fingers.

 

[54FordPanel]

I don't know, (I said that) but I guess it was a machine. What do you guess? Think it's a person who spends all day pouring mix into a bucket?

I'm sure you thought you were being exact. But can you see how if you re-use the bucket, the product that is left in the bucket from the previous mix might result in you putting a little less of the Part A than you thought?

When I did my floor, it came out pretty even with the parts that were left over, but I can guarantee you it wasn't exact. If you looked at the 2 buckets before you poured any product into the mixing bucket, I'll bet it was exactly the same amount.

If you think Epoxy-Coat screwed you, post a thread, just like you did. People can read it and decide what they think.

Edit: I just think it's a good product, and I think they have great customer service. I know people are fallible (I am) and exact to me isn't exact to a machine.

I think they would work with you on getting some more epoxy on your floor, and that would be a hell of a lot easier than trying to paint over it....

 

[ishiboo]

I dont think you people understand. The fact is not that he didnt have enough product to cover the floor. He didnt have enough of one part to finish his last ratio; this is where the issue of the measuring stick comes in. If you mix by the ratio on the stick then all of the material should be used on the last mix. You shouldnt have an excessive amount of one part left over. This has nothing to do with how thick you lay it.

I believe they err on the side of extra catalyst. I don't think he was shorted anything.

 

[Stealthpot]

I don't know, (I said that) but I guess it was a machine. What do you guess? Think it's a person who spends all day pouring mix into a bucket?

I'm sure you thought you were being exact. But can you see how if you re-use the bucket, the product that is left in the bucket from the previous mix might result in you putting a little less of the Part A than you thought?

When I did my floor, it came out pretty even with the parts that were left over, but I can guarantee you it wasn't exact. If you looked at the 2 buckets before you poured any product into the mixing bucket, I'll bet it was exactly the same amount.

If you think Epoxy-Coat screwed you, post a thread, just like you did. People can read it and decide what they think.

Edit: I just think it's a good product, and I think they have great customer service. I know people are fallible (I am) and exact to me isn't exact to a machine.

I think they would work with you on getting some more epoxy on your floor, and that would be a hell of a lot easier than trying to paint over it....

I do not know what Epoxy Coat uses in their facility, but I do have a frame of reference. I work for a company that sells dispensers of very precisely measured amount of chemicals for industrial machinery. The dispensers are machine filled in a sterile environment. Guess what, sometimes our machine doesn't get every last drop in the tube and the customer runs out before they should. You know what that means? Free replacement of said dispenser.

The bucket system is not the best, I agree, but the stuff in the bottom wasn't the issue.

Again, thank you for working through these issues, its a good discussion. And yes, I post so that others may see not everyone is pleased as punch with their result or experience.

 

[kywildcat]

Sorry Stealth. you're not going to win this argument on this forum. Ive read a lot of threads about the floors, and you can't win very often against a stacked deck!!

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Right wrong or indifferent...
Would you fault her for not helping you now that you have presented your case to this hanging jury we call The Garage Journal Flooring Forum?

You get more with sugar than you do with spice.

 

[thegarageguy]

Unless you can find someone with the same exact problem you had, which is basically not enough of "A" or "B", then we all have to chalk it up as application error. It's the risk you take when you DIY. Another error is not buying enough product. Coverage rates are always approximated, they are not gospel. We always go into jobs with 10 to 15% more material just in case. You are not winning this one buddy.

 

[Daddy_Rabbit]

hmmmm ... let's take a closer look at this ... 13 posts and all of them bitching, complaining and griping about a product that NUMEROUS members here have had EXCELLENT results with. something smells a bit fishy to me. seems someone found the site & then signed up as a member simply to bad-mouth a vendor who is held in high regard here.

Fishy indeed.

 

[Daddy_Rabbit]

I dont think you people understand. The fact is not that he didnt have enough product to cover the floor. He didnt have enough of one part to finish his last ratio; this is where the issue of the measuring stick comes in. If you mix by the ratio on the stick then all of the material should be used on the last mix. You shouldnt have an excessive amount of one part left over. This has nothing to do with how thick you lay it.

nice 1st post.