Frustrated with in-floor heat quoted.

[Raymond53]

Had 30ftX40ftX10ft pole barn built, two 8x10 roll up insulated doors on 30ft end facing East, and one man door centered between them. Gutters and downspouts installed. Plans for cement floor and interior finishing upcoming.
Problem is I am physically unable to do the work, left to hire all done. I know what it takes and how to do job, but a stroke took my left side so I can not even stand alone unaided.
Looking into in-floor heating as I know from putting it in a self built 40x40x12 pole barn back in 2000, that it is a most efficient system. At my former shop I used a woodstove to run system, worked Very well. Would anyone have a rough estimate what the cost would be for parts and install for in-floor system in 30x40 pole barn workshop. All one room, so assume 1 zone, LPG efficient boiler, PEX, manifold, etc. A recently received quote for over $25,000!
I realize Cannabis is now legal in NY, but I feel this fella using it on the job.

 

[American Locomotive]

I mean what's the scope of the work? Are they just running the pex, hooking the boiler up, and leaving you to pour the floor? Or does that include pouring the slab too? If the slab is included, that doesn't sound too far out in left field.

BTW: The "efficiency" of in floor heating really isn't any better than any other type of heating. Be it a hot air furnace, hydronic baseboard, or whatever. It's basically whatever the efficiency of the heat-generating unit is (e.g., your furnace, boiler, heat pump). But radiant in floor heat does provide a very comfortable and even heat + warm floors.

 

[Raymond53]

Parts and install of the infloor system. Insulation, Pex, connections, boiler or water heater, etc.

Concrete work separate. That should be around 8500. The quote for heat was more than paid to have entire barn built.

Reference was to when looking up boilers etc, always states an efficiency percentage.

Being disabled I will be in my wheelchair so guess infloor Heat not 100% necessary. I just know it worked great at my old place.

 

[kj_mustang]

You should have close to $1500 in cost for the XPS foam insulation alone. Pex is not that much, but the LP boiler and install will be another $2500-3000 +, so yeah I think I would get some more quotes.

 

[American Locomotive]

If that quote does not include concrete work, I agree that is an egregiously high number.

Shop around.

 

[Dagny]

I'm in the business while in floor is very comfortable it is very expensive. Hang a reznor in the corner trouble free heat for 20 years.

 

[danski0224]

Had 30ftX40ftX10ft pole barn built, two 8x10 roll up insulated doors on 30ft end facing East, and one man door centered between them. Gutters and downspouts installed. Plans for cement floor and interior finishing upcoming.
Problem is I am physically unable to do the work, left to hire all done. I know what it takes and how to do job, but a stroke took my left side so I can not even stand alone unaided.
Looking into in-floor heating as I know from putting it in a self built 40x40x12 pole barn back in 2000, that it is a most efficient system. At my former shop I used a woodstove to run system, worked Very well. Would anyone have a rough estimate what the cost would be for parts and install for in-floor system in 30x40 pole barn workshop. All one room, so assume 1 zone, LPG efficient boiler, PEX, manifold, etc. A recently received quote for over $25,000!
I realize Cannabis is now legal in NY, but I feel this fella using it on the job.

Sorry to hear about your stroke.

Two suggestions:

(1) Get a couple of more estimates

(2) If you "know what it takes to do the job", then put together a materials list and price it out.

The boiler manuals have piping diagrams.

Then, with the material list, you have a scope of work for estimates.

Not sure if you have noticed, but prices on stuff has gone up a bit. Is $25k high, maybe. It may not be as out of line as you assume.

I'd certainly rough in the tubing before doing the concrete.

 

[billconner]

Just on costs, 4" slab in rural NY where I am is $10-12/sf last fall. 2" of foam is at $3/sf material cost.

I agree, try to find another quote or two. Radiant floor does seem like most expensive way to heat a garage/shop.

 

[Raymond53]

Thank you all. Finally reached out to a former coworker, see if he knows anyone interested in making few bucks to put system in. He doesn’t like the job for himself as it too much for knees. So if I can get parts rounded up in couple weeks time, we may have a good chance get er done.
Yes aware of all price increases, it’s outrageous, we are all ‘held hostage’. Our quote for finishing interior has to go up as it’s been a month or more since first look.
The PVC conduit to take power out to barn went up in just a weeks time.
Thank you all for comments. It’s not that I don’t know how to do the entire job, stinks to have to hire everything done then hope they will do the job way I would myself.

 

[tdkkart]

Quick look at Menards website, Radiant heat "panel" includes the LP boiler, pumps valves etc, $3500. 1200ft Oxygen barrier 1/2" pex, $350, 1200 sq/ft Foamular 250 R10 insulation, $1200. Call it $6000 worth of materials and misc supplies. 2-3 days labor for 2 guys, $2000- $3000.

Just go ahead and call it $10,000 real cost, and then add in a 2 week Jamaican vacation and you're at $25,000.

I don't see the problem??


BTW, I did a $1200sqft 2 zone shop 14 years ago for a LOT less than $10,000, and the interesting part is that as much as other stuff has gone up, the materials for this job have not gone up much at all. My pex was 30 cents/ft then, foam board was $30/sheet as I remember.

 

[Shop Specialties]

I mean what's the scope of the work? Are they just running the pex, hooking the boiler up, and leaving you to pour the floor? Or does that include pouring the slab too? If the slab is included, that doesn't sound too far out in left field.

BTW: The "efficiency" of in floor heating really isn't any better than any other type of heating. Be it a hot air furnace, hydronic baseboard, or whatever. It's basically whatever the efficiency of the heat-generating unit is (e.g., your furnace, boiler, heat pump). But radiant in floor heat does provide a very comfortable and even heat + warm floors.

Every shop in the past 31 years where I have a boiler we are using approximately 1/3 of the BTU as compared to forced air. It takes less BTU to heat objects with radiant than using a forced air heater to scorch the air. It does cost more to install but in the long run it will pay off.

 

[danski0224]

Quick look at Menards website, Radiant heat "panel" includes the LP boiler, pumps valves etc, $3500. 1200ft Oxygen barrier 1/2" pex, $350, 1200 sq/ft Foamular 250 R10 insulation, $1200. Call it $6000 worth of materials and misc supplies. 2-3 days labor for 2 guys, $2000- $3000.

Customer labor rate is much more likely to be $125 an hour or more.

$125 x 8 x 2 x 2 = $4,000.00

$125 x 8 x 2 x 3 = $6,000.00

Or more.

 

[Earp69]

You should have close to $1500 in cost for the XPS foam insulation alone. Pex is not that much, but the LP boiler and install will be another $2500-3000 +, so yeah I think I would get some more quotes.

Uh a lot more than that for xps

 

[kj_mustang]

$38 for a 32 sq foot sheet in my area.

 

[Earp69]

$38 for a 32 sq foot sheet in my area.

That's 1900,without doing vertical peices for a frost barrier around the perimeter which need done especially in a state like new York.

 

[Raymond53]

Going with the blanket as did in first building I did. Foam around the perimeter for sure. Don’t believe have depth to justify the foam board throughout.
Monday calls for rounding equipment, will see what find.

 

[meathooker]

We quote radiant systems (mostly commercial and high end resi) at $25-30/sqft.

your price seems on par for a basic system

 

[Mr onetwo]

A basic boiler replacement (removing old oil and installing new gas condensing) would be over 10K here.I wouldn't do that job for 25K.

 

[yeldogt]

Going with the blanket as did in first building I did. Foam around the perimeter for sure. Don’t believe have depth to justify the foam board throughout.
Monday calls for rounding equipment, will see what find.

what is a blanket ?

 

[Raymond53]

what is a blanket ?

Insulate, Vapor barrier, and heat reflective type ‘blanket’ for under concrete. Used similar bk in 2000,
Insul tarp is a brand name I believe.

 

[Sumboodie]

A basic boiler replacement (removing old oil and installing new gas condensing) would be over 10K here.I wouldn't do that job for 25K.

Jeebus, they tape gold bars to the boiler afterward?!

$3500 for a boiler and parts, and a day of labor... that's under $5,000

 

[kj_mustang]

That's 1900,without doing vertical peices for a frost barrier around the perimeter which need done especially in a state like new York.

30' × 40' building = 1200 sq feet of floor area ÷ 32 sq per sheet = 38 sheets x $38 = $1444, yes plus additional sheets if needed to do vertical. I didn't notice his NY comment at first look.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Jeebus, they tape gold bars to the boiler afterward?!

$3500 for a boiler and parts, and a day of labor... that's under $5,000

You obviously aren't in the HVAC business.
That job is not a 1 day 1 man operation if done correctly.Labor costs have skyrocketed and you can't find good techs easily.You have business insurance,vehicle insurance and costs,workmans comp or self insurance costs.You have to carry a 1 year warrantee on the job and hidden administrative costs that are not easily tracked.You also have disposal fees, permits,ect. to carry and oh yeah...I would like to make a small profit so I can feed my family and keep the business open.Billable labor in this area is up to between $80 and $100 per hour due to these factors and I haven't even mentioned the huge increase in material and fuel costs.
Come to think of it...I couldn't do it for $10,000.

 

[mike93lx]

Jeebus, they tape gold bars to the boiler afterward?!

$3500 for a boiler and parts, and a day of labor... that's under $5,000

Lol.

Day of labor for a couple hvac techs for under 1500, even if that was all that is required? In NY, no less

Let's also forget markup

 

[Mr onetwo]

what is a blanket ?

Don't waste your money on that ****...do it right with 2" blueboard.

 

[jblnut]

If it is a space you will be in quite a bit every day I'd find a way to make the in floor work as it is soooooooo nice. It is definitely a luxury item though as a much less expensive heating system will do the same thing.

The heating system in my 54x72 farm shop is the only thing I do not know 100% what it cost. I didn't skimp on it either though and have 2" of foam around the perimeter going down 3' and into the perimeter of the building I went 12' with 2" and the rest of the middle I did 1-1/2". I looked into the foil taro and a few other things and ended up going with "buy once cry once" and don't regret it a bit.

I went nuts with insulation everywhere else as well though so I'm not sure how much efficiency is being gained with a well insulated floor. 8" insulation blankets in-between the poles with blue foam inside and out of the poles to provide a thermal break by the poles. The entire office/upstairs areas got foam between the perlings on the outside. The building uses the same amount of LP as our brand new SIP home and has 3x the cubic feet of space. 70F vs 62F so not wildly different temps inside.

I'd definitely shop around but there is a difference between a high quote and a good contractor charging what they're worth. I've found that out over the years trying to be cheap a few times and I will pay the extra that a good contractor deserves every time.

 

[Raymond53]

You obviously aren't in the HVAC business.
That job is not a 1 day 1 man operation if done correctly.Labor costs have skyrocketed and you can't find good techs easily.You have business insurance,vehicle insurance and costs,workmans comp or self insurance costs.You have to carry a 1 year warrantee on the job and hidden administrative costs that are not easily tracked.You also have disposal fees, permits,ect. to carry and oh yeah...I would like to make a small profit so I can feed my family and keep the business open.Billable labor in this area is up to between $80 and $100 per hour due to these factors and I haven't even mentioned the huge increase in material and fuel costs.
Come to think of it...I couldn't do it for $10,000.

But likely for less than 25,000! The building itself wasn’t that much a year ago.
Was a Union Electrician until a stroke put me down 10 days into retirement. Worked for Plumbing Heating & Electric contractor 72’ till 99’ when joined local Union so I would have some sort of retirement.
Clearly I’m not a contractor, wouldn’t be on a forum for others’ opinions and ideas if I was.
In 2002, I installed my infloor system with just the help of wife & done. It served us well until I became unable to take care of our homestead of 46 years. Which we built in 74’ added on in 84’ as our family grew, the 40x40x12 fully finished shop in 2002, and an addition to home again in 2008 to improve sale-ability of our home as we neared retirement. Which got totally screwed up with a strike at 60 yrs, had to do over… would have hired out more and saved wear and tear on myself. Now I’m wheelchair bound without use of entire left side, but Thank the lord above I have every memory and know my family and friends. So no I’m not a contractor, but been out of business since 2015. Know what needs doing, just can’t do it myself.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Having said all I've said about infloor...this is how I heat my shop.Cheap and provides nice heat once you get used to it.

 

[Raymond53]

It’s 30x40 wouldn’t take a competent person more than a day to lay out PEX, Mount boiler, and at least start connections.

 

[mike93lx]

It’s 30x40 wouldn’t take a competent person more than a day to lay out PEX, Mount boiler, and at least start connections.

Then it should be easy to get a quote in line with that...

But something tells me that isn't the case

 

[Raymond53]

Having said all I've said about infloor...this is how I heat my shop.Cheap and provides nice heat once you get used to it.

My wife was scrambling to convince me in floor not needed and this was an option she showed me. I have my heart set on the infloor. She has good argument as I will be in wheelchair not standing on concrete, also not spending hours upon hours out there. Since the stroke I need assistance with every task you can imagine.
Thumbs up for finding a system works for you without draining wallet. Thank you for comment and pic.

 

[Raymond53]

Then it should be easy to get a quote in line with that...

Not easy to find anyone wants to work these days!!
Had two local contractors actually come view the site, then disappear from face of earth. Labor intensive? Not big enough job to make worthwhile? Who knows, they’re scratched of possibilities list. Found young man willing to do side work, he is available in 10 days or so when his son is done with All Stars Baseball.
Local supply house working quite for materials needed. Project looking up.

 

[gmcgeo]

sounds like the contractor did not want the job, and threw out a ridicules' quote. if he gets it then obviously he would do it.

i would get other quotes

 

[mike93lx]

Not easy to find anyone wants to work these days!!
Had two local contractors actually come view the site, then disappear from face of earth. Labor intensive? Not big enough job to make worthwhile? Who knows, they’re scratched of possibilities list. Found young man willing to do side work, he is available in 10 days or so when his son is done with All Stars Baseball.
Local supply house working quite for materials needed. Project looking up.

The "no one wants to work" angle is BS.

They disappeared because they have lots of easier work. They aren't sitting around doing nothing.

Your idea that this is a simple job doesn't seem to align with reality. Even a single day on site requires design and planning, getting supplies, troubleshooting, etc.

 

[jblnut]

Your idea that this is a simple job doesn't seem to align with reality. Even a single day on site requires design and planning, getting supplies, troubleshooting, etc.

Gonna spend as much time prepping for a single days work as for a weeks work usually so the smaller jobs require more overhead as a percentage of the job cost. Makes sense to me.

 

[Raymond53]

sounds like the contractor did not want the job, and threw out a ridicules' quote. if he gets it then obviously he would do it.

i would get other quotes

Precisely. They were local big name outfit, quite rude. Thinking didn’t want to bother with piddly job.
It’s fine, on to next option. Quote for supplies coming today.

 

[Mr onetwo]

It’s 30x40 wouldn’t take a competent person more than a day to lay out PEX, Mount boiler, and at least start connections.

Sorry dude....you are delusional.I wish you luck however you decide to proceed.

 

[gmcgeo]

Sorry dude....you are delusional. I wish you luck however you decide to proceed.

my crew and i would do these in a day. I do not understand the Delusional point... please explain further?

 

[mike93lx]

my crew and i would do these in a day. I do not understand the Delusional point... please explain further?

You said crew. He said a guy

 

[American Locomotive]

"Person" when referring to a contractor is a colloquial term that generally encompasses whoever they'd bring to help, as well.

$10k to install a condensing gas boiler! What an absolute riot! Even assuming the boiler and all associated accessories cost $5k, and it took someone two complete days to install (which itself would be a lot of time for a condensing boiler install), that's over $300/hour for labor. No one's overhead is THAT high. My complete and utter contempt for the HVAC trade just grows more and more every day.

They just quote whatever arbitrary amount they want, and know people can't do anything about it since they need heat. I hardly hear of any HVAC guys doing time+materials anymore. They just pull the lever to spin the wheel and see if the customer will accept whatever number it lands on.