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Fuel for Generator?

HiTech

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Jun 18, 2013
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Figure I ask on the forum about those who have diesel back up generators, about what they use for fuel.
I have heard from many sites that "HHO" #2 home heating oil is the same as off road diesel, but something about higher sulfur contents. I'm running a lister Petter Tier 4 engine with a Stamford 13.5-15kw gen head. It has be in use for about a year, with monthly runs of about 2 hour 75% loads with no problems. Should I be concerned about any damage to my engine?

Thanks....
 

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davidlee

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I too have a Lister Petter engine on a 23KW generator. I have used off road and regular pump diesel ever since I've had it. It was bought in 1999 new. I have less than 200 hrs on it but no problems.
 

kd3pc

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clean fuel, water dumped when needed and filter changes.....should be good to go. Best to use it at load if possible, several times a year, at least
 

rlitman

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#2 ULSD will burn in a oil fired furnace/boiler just fine.

#2 HHO will run a diesel engine, but it does not necessarily have the lubricity the engine may require. It isn't designed to run an engine, so it may work just fine, but then again, it may not.

Why not just get offroad diesel? Its only pennies more than HHO.

BTW, that setup looks REALLY nice.
 

walrus

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Running anything but 15ppm ULSD in many new diesel will void warranty.
 

kd3pc

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I believe these little listers are direct injection diesels, not the common rail computer car/truck engines, so HHO is not as big a worry as it is in VW/GM/Ford road engines.

that being said, The duramax injector pump does not like HHO, without the additives to lube the pump, I know this for a fact as the F-I-L has been through 2 very expensive pumps running what I call pond water through it....#2 left in an old fuel oil tank, then pumped directly in to his truck. Quickly overwhelms the fuel filter.

If ULSD is available, I would certainly use it over the risk of using HHO that may be partially re conditioned and missing the additives and proper cetane rating.

In VA, unless you have the means to move it, it is all but impossible to get offroad diesel delivered to a non-commercial point of use. Even the big contractors are closely regulated and monitored.

Best of luck
 
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Bmwsyc

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A good suggestion I've heard is to contact your HHO provider. HHO may vary slightly from place to place,the supplier will be able to tell you what is in it.
 

2ManyProjects

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Figure I ask on the forum about those who have diesel back up generators, about what they use for fuel.
I have heard from many sites that "HHO" #2 home heating oil is the same as off road diesel, but something about higher sulfur contents.

That's NOT the only difference.

I'm running a lister Petter Tier 4 engine with a Stamford 13.5-15kw gen head. It has be in use for about a year, with monthly runs of about 2 hour 75% loads with no problems. Should I be concerned about any damage to my engine?

I'd follow "rlitman"'s advice, for precisely the reasons he cites. If "Off-Road" Diesel fuel is conveniently available to you, it is definitely the better choice, and the cost should be comparable (the only real difference between "Off-Road" Diesel and truck fuel is taxation, and the dye used to denote that taxation, or lack thereof). If "Off-Road" Diesel fuel is NOT conveniently available to you, you can use truck fuel, then apply for a refund of the road tax (which is a significant part of the cost, currently averaging about $0.55/gallon, depending on the State); your supplier should be able to provide you with the appropriate form.

Further, I have to assume that in your application, you're storing a fair quantity of fuel on-site for a significant period of time, and very probably NEVER really draining the tank between top-offs. In which case, you REALLY need to look at getting yourself a fuel-polishing system (for example: http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/fuel_polishing.htm and http://www.fueltecsystems.com/fuel-polishing-system/). Diesel fuel stores better than gasoline; but it's still subject to accumulating water and all kinds of "critters" (including fungi, mold, algae. etc.) over time, none of which is at all good for your engine.

 

JoeFin

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Further, I have to assume that in your application, you're storing a fair quantity of fuel on-site for a significant period of time, and very probably NEVER really draining the tank between top-offs. In which case, you REALLY need to look at getting yourself a fuel-polishing system

LOL

When I read "Fuel Polishing" being I work in an oil refinery - you'll never believe what came to mind for me.

That being said the systems linked above are merely filters

In a refinery they'll inject steam into the fuel and heat it all into a vapor state and let it settle according to its Specific Gravity in a column. Of course now the water vapor has molecularity attracted the surfer and formed H2S or what we call "Sour Water".

Of course now by law they have to process the H2S out of the sour water which is a pretty costly process.

That is the difference between HHO and Diesel fuel
 

rlitman

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I'd follow "rlitman"'s advice, for precisely the reasons he cites. . .
Further, I have to assume that in your application, you're storing a fair quantity of fuel on-site for a significant period of time, and very probably NEVER really draining the tank between top-offs. In which case, you REALLY need to look at getting yourself a fuel-polishing system

Wait, huh, what did I say? ;)

My assumption was that the OP was either sharing the fuel tank for the diesel generator with a heating system, or perhaps he just has a small fuel tank that happens to be similar in size to a residential heating system's.
In that case, the fuel sales person probably didn't want to sell them diesel, because they don't want to empty a truck, and then refill it with diesel to make a 200 gallon delivery just to you.

If the tank is ONLY being used for a standby generator, getting ULSD delivered during an emergency may not be much of a problem. When your power is out, you're not the only one running a generator, and your fuel guy may already be going around the neighborhood with a truck with off-road diesel for just this. So you may be able to explain this to them, and get yourself on a route of diesel customer deliveries. Asking for an initial fill up, with the understanding that it is a one time thing may not even be that much of a reach.

If the tank is also being shared for heating, then expecting it to be topped off regularly with diesel is unrealistic unless you've got a tank of significant size (I know I have no problem asking for 500 gallons at work, but I probably wouldn't be able to ask for much less; not that less would be of much use to me).

As for "regulation", that's a state by state thing, but would be dependent on the size of your tank. Whether it is ULSD or HHO in the tank makes no difference. In NYS, the smallest tank at my work is 1500 gallons gross, and it is above the threshold that requires a permit.

As for polishing, I'm not so sure that's a great idea. It may be important in a marine environment where water is unavoidable, but in an aboveground tank that starts out with clean diesel, I'd start by taking a sample from the bottom of the tank. Check that for water and turbidity (cloudiness). There are sampling bottles where you read numbers on the backside of the label on the back of the bottle to get an idea of contamination. So long as the fuel is absolutely clear, and has no funny smell, I wouldn't mess with it. I made my own "sample thief" using a Mityvac hand vacuum pump, a 1-man brake bleeder bottle (to collect the sample), some tubing, and a weight to get the sample from the absolute bottom of the tank. You could also just use a stick with some water detecting paste on it.

If you find water on the bottom, there are materials that will remove it (a clean diaper would work too, as the filler is superabsorbant to water, but not oil). If there is no water, it is very unlikely you will get bacteria/algae contamination.
If you see cloudiness, then you need to fix that issue ASAP.

Anyway, it looks like you have a nice water separator and filter on that frame, before it goes through the engine's filter. Just remember that anywhere the fuel line is subject to freezing, it must always be routed with the slope down to the tank, so there are no places where water can collect and freeze.
 
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