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Fuel oil tank leak

billconner

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A completely new one for me. 275 gal oil tank in basement - full - and its leaking. New in 1994. Looks like rust or corrosion in the middle of the steel - not at joints or where legs attach.

Plumber is getting pump and barrels to get old out, then I guess we'll see if patching is an option or replacement.

Any similar experiencies?

I'll try to get some pictures.
 
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billconner

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some photos
 

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lilredex

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Patching on a thirty year old tank? Get rid of it! Surprized your insurance co. had nothing to say about that tank. long ago.

They hate oil tanks, especially if older than ten years.
 

PCustoms

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When did you have it filled last?

You've now got a hazmat mess on your hands.

After the cleanup you'll need to replace (not fix) the tank
 

PCustoms

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I assumed replacement. It's a small puddle on epoxy coated floor. I don't think cleanup will be that bad.
I went back and looked, realized the ********* marks aren't rusted through.

Good thing you caught it
 

PCustoms

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This will be a stupid question from someone from propane territory, but how on earth do these things rust out in 10 years indoors full of essentially oily diesel fuel? Do they often get water in the bottom?
Water/condensation and "sludge" settles to the bottom, rusts them out. 10yrs seems fast...

In a basement you hope to catch the smell when it starts to seep, which is apparently what @billconner did. I helped my parents a few years ago, that tank was at least 20yrs old and spent 5 outside.

Outside you hope to catch it before you loose 100+ gallons to the ground.

Another common leak is corroded copper feed to the furnace.

VT now requires inspection by the oil delivery company, IIRC every 2yrs or when you switch companies.

I've seen k1 tanks (clean as a whistle inside) rusted out too. I'll never touch oil again, not worth it IMHO
 
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Glacial_Speed

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A completely new one for me. 275 gal oil tank in basement - full - and its leaking. New in 1994. Looks like rust or corrosion in the middle of the steel - not at joints or where legs attach.

Plumber is getting pump and barrels to get old out, then I guess we'll see if patching is an option or replacement.

Any similar experiencies?

I'll try to get some pictures.
Similar experience. Last Friday I got 210 gallons delivered. The leak started soon after.

I bought a magnetic patch from rectorseal. I like to gripe about Amazon, but in this case Amazon prime saved my backside and got the patch to me in about 4 hours. The patch is two bar magnets that squish a foam plug against the hole. Kind of like putting your thumb over the hole.

I'm shopping for a new tank. The patch gives me some time to shop for a new tank, but it feels like a Sword of Damocles hanging over me. The Roth tanks look pretty good and I'm leaning toward that brand. They're made in Watertown, NY you should check them out.

I'm thinking that the cost of the new tank is about $1000 maybe $1500, but to have the guys come in and remove the old tank will be another $3000 or $4000.
 
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billconner

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Mines a 30 yr old tank. Always in dry heated basement. I didn't act as fast I should have - thought it was a very slow leak at the filter (?) where line goes to boiler. Plumbers seemed clear that under 7 gallons they don't need haz mat. They offer a double wall plastic tank (Roth made near me) but seems twice the price of steel and at 72, I don't need to spend extra for lifetime stuff. Also I'm told 150 gal do If need 3. Thought briefly about taking opportunity to switch to propane but then a boiler full of electronics. They tell me they can repair my dumb old oil boiler forever.
 
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billconner

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Well, they were wrong about price difference plastic (Roth) vs steel. Steel $1095 and plastic/Roth $1130. I think that's a no brainier to go with Roth. Just had been a while since these guys saw price on steel.

Glacial-Speed for the win (and Google for the assist)!
 

Firebrick43

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West central Indiana
Mines a 30 yr old tank. Always in dry heated basement. I didn't act as fast I should have - thought it was a very slow leak at the filter (?) where line goes to boiler. Plumbers seemed clear that under 7 gallons they don't need haz mat. They offer a double wall plastic tank (Roth made near me) but seems twice the price of steel and at 72, I don't need to spend extra for lifetime stuff. Also I'm told 150 gal do If need 3. Thought briefly about taking opportunity to switch to propane but then a boiler full of electronics. They tell me they can repair my dumb old oil boiler forever.
Many "dumb" old boilers can be easily converted to propane via burner replacement.
 
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billconner

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I guess it's the contractors prejudice but they all seem to like oil, except for price of course. (Though love yo convert because they end up with low cost fuel for diesel pick ups.)
 

Firebrick43

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I guess it's the contractors prejudice but they all seem to like oil, except for price of course. (Though love yo convert because they end up with low cost fuel for diesel pick ups.)
They like oil as they take more consistent burner maintenance. Also needs occasional chimney sweeping that propane doesn't.

They get to sell you the tank and charge for installing it as well instead of the propane company, which if you buy enough typically doesn't even charge rental.

Propane generally needs very little maintenance in comparison. They typically only get to charge for new install and are retired before the next guy gets to touch it.

A lot of pro's in certain trades will recommend products that maximize their labor that they charge the customer.
 
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billconner

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I did mean by "like" that oil is what they have in their homes. Just three thirty something service guys.

Looking at costs, no matter how efficient and maintenance free, there's simply no way at our ages it would ever pay back to convert to propane.
 
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Wrench97

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This will be a stupid question from someone from propane territory, but how on earth do these things rust out in 10 years indoors full of essentially oily diesel fuel? Do they often get water in the bottom?
They sweat on the sides as the fuel level drops, newer tanks like everything else made today are ****.
 

PoorUB

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Fargo, ND
I would get rid of oil and run pretty much anything else for heat. You are very fortunate you caught the leak early.

Search on the internet for residential fuel oil clean up and it will turn your hair gray!

I saw one where they moved the house do they could excavate the oil tainted soil.

Another one where the guys neighbor had an oil tank leak and he posted a picture of an excavator in a pit in the ground about 20 feet deep and they were digging deeper. Two excavators, one way down in the pit bringing dirt up so the second excavator could grab it and dump it in a truck.

Costs were $250,000 and insurance wouldn't cover it.

At least look into double wall tanks.

Some states has very strict laws on oil tanks, some don't care. I talked to a guy that switched over to propane and he was just going to abandon his underground oil tank. The state he was in had no requirement to remove it. I told him to get it out as it was easy now. He left it in place. A few years later he tried to sell the property and disclosed the oil tank. Nobody would buy the home with the tank in place, so he hired a company to remove it. From the time he first talked to me about it, to the time he was selling the home the state changed requirements and got crazy about underground tanks. He had to hire a pro to remove it, and it had to he inspected. It cost him something like $50k by the time he got it cleaned up as there was some oil in the ground, not alot, probably just just many tiny spills over the years from the oil company when they filled the tank. If he had removed it when I told him too he might of hired an excavation company but there was no inspection, no requirements from the state. It might have cost him $1K or $2K tops. It would have been dig up the tank, toss some dirt in the hole and be done with it.
 
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PopcornSutton

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My parents had a 275 gallon oil tank in the basement. They lived there for over 30 years and the tank was never replaced, and there were no leaks. Guess they were made a bit better back then. That tank had to have been put in the basement before the floor was put in, cause it would need to be cut into pieces to get it out.
 

75gmck25

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Most owners and buyers don't want oil, so the conversion to propane may pay off better than you think.

We converted to a Buderus natural gas boiler in 2012 and the complete bill was about $8k, including removal of the oil tank and old boiler, and making all the gas line modifications needed. Natural gas pays off quicker than propane because of the lower price, but propane instead of oil will still be a plus if you (or your kids) ever need to sell the house.

Mine is a relative "dumb" system with 84% efficiency and a setback thermostat. The only repair the gas boiler has needed in the last 12 years was when the Honeywell control unit started getting wonky (sometimes it shut down after reaching max water temp, and then never restarted). The direct replacement Honeywell control unit was discontinued, so the repair guy had to do some research and find an equivalent unit.
 

xjfish

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I wish I could give you an oil tank. I have 2 in MN, excellent condition. In my old house, I retired an ancient oil furnace and switched to available natural gas years ago. That indoor tank is still sitting there in excellent condition with a very small amount of fuel in bottom, guessing 70+ years old. Still setup for fuel oil in current house. Guessing this tank is 40+ years old and no leaks. Attempting to switch to propane due to age and condition of furnace. This tank will probably get cut up.

I don't understand the huge deal on cleanup? Its just fuel. Don't create a fire hazard and simply clean it up and vent area?
 

Jackfre

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Bill, I would suggest having a chat with your insurance guy. Now, only if he is a local guy and you know each other. His guidance could be helpful. It seems that I am answering more threads with “insurance” lines, but it is the world we are living in and watching my neighbors get cancelled for nothing it is at least worth being aware of things in your area. The Roth tanks are superior being double envelope, but at 76 I get your 72 comment. Are you fixin’ to stay in that house long term?
 
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billconner

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Most owners and buyers don't want oil, so the conversion to propane may pay off better than you think.
NY laws and incentives greatly favor heat pumps, so can't be sure a buyer will even want gas. Personally, If I could find an air to water heat pump that would be hot enough for baseboard hw heat, I'd do that. But not yet available.

I see 10 to 15 year payback on oil to propane conversion. We'll never see it.
 
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billconner

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Bill, I would suggest having a chat with your insurance guy. Now, only if he is a local guy and you know each other. His guidance could be helpful. It seems that I am answering more threads with “insurance” lines, but it is the world we are living in and watching my neighbors get cancelled for nothing it is at least worth being aware of things in your area. The Roth tanks are superior being double envelope, but at 76 I get your 72 comment. Are you fixin’ to stay in that house long term?
Going with Roth. Don't know future but guessing 5 to 10 years. We talk about moving to be near grand children, but not too seriously yet.
 

dcg9381

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NY laws and incentives greatly favor heat pumps, so can't be sure a buyer will even want gas.
Depends on the price of natural gas vs electricity for the limited buyers that might differentiate.
And it's much harder to heat a heat pump home when the electricity is out. Natural gas, you just need to get that fan running.
I prefer natural gas heat in cold climates, assuming about the same cost. But I care about the power being out.
I see 10 to 15 year payback on oil to propane conversion. We'll never see it.
I would want a hefty discount on a house with fuel oil. So if you ever sell, it might pay back more than you'd suspect.
Propane, up north, seems way cheaper than it is here for some reason (per gallon).
 

NUTTSGT

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Fuel oil is probably going to be region dependent. Very common around here and not much issues with any leakages either. Granted, intown, there might be a handful of tanks, some on the outside.

I replaced our tank with a nice used tank, gave it a good coat of paint. Last tank was starting to seep and the basement was quite damp, like dirt floor damp.

Being a fairly "new" tank. I wonder if Bill's tank had some porosity in a weld that was sealed by the paint for a long time ?
 
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billconner

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Being a fairly "new" tank. I wonder if Bill's tank had some porosity in a weld that was sealed by the paint for a long time ?
It was unusual. Did not seem to be near any welded joints. Somehow seemed like a pin hole rust through. Service person felt bad because he touched a "dimple" and oil started to leak, like just the exterior (red primer?) paint film was holding.

Oil is pretty common here, with no natural gas for 20 miles, and freezing cold all winter. A lot of wood burning, often wood with electric resistance backup. We like the consistent comfort and quiet of hw baseboard. Not going to worry about the sell price difference of oil vs propane. Can't be more than $10 or 15K, the cost to convert.
 

thammel

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My parents had an oil tank in the basement that was good for at least the 40 years they lived in the house. Better to have a leak in the basement than in a buried oil tank!!!
 
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billconner

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Follow up question:

Some DWV and cold water pipe obstruction to Roth tank so I think I can modify a little wall framing - all non-load bearing - to fit Roth tank. New tank middle of next month.

SO, how do I move old tank, practically empty, specifically disconnect the small copper line to boiler, without making a mess? I assume knob under end of tank is a valve. So shut that (if not too sedimented) but then just remove the rest? and how do I keep oil in line to boiler from not draining?
 

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