Fuel Oil Who Burns It?

[Renegade1LI]

Living here in the north east seems like we still use heating oil, i know by me natural gas is hit and miss. Anyway had to change 3 oil tanks this week, one outside and two inside basement. It started at our rental house, service tech noticed tank was bad, could wet spots on the bottom, order a tank and replaced. Next day at 630pm my son calls and says he has no heat, checks tanks empty and we’re looking for signs of a leak, ground was clean but tank was developing a few wet spots, great. Had a spare 275 in shop, go get it change tank get 50gals a diesel heats back. Next day my sons over and says “how’s your tank”? He goes and looks, yup tanks bad, i changed it 25 years ago, feels like 5 years. What’s the chances of three bad tanks in two days? I hate oil, but to of the tanks we replaced with Roth tanks, what a pleasure if you have to use oil.

Just sharing this with anyone else who uses oil, it’s not a bad idea to keep an eye on your tank and lines, the 15-20 life span of a 12ga tank is pretty accurate. If you do need a new tank the Roth is a great tank, nice to have a secondary containment, if you use the tank out side consider protecting it from physical damage, it seems it could be punctured easier than a steel tank. You can see a few pin holes in the one from my house, luckily the sludge kept it from leaking.

 

[Mr_fixit]

Outside tanks go quicker than inside tanks. Almost 50 years on mine. Parents tanks were older than that. When mine starts leaking that will probably be the time I finally switch to natural gas. They just put the pipes in the ground last year. Outside tanks would have to rust quicker than an inside tank.

 

[PCustoms]

If the tank wasn't leaking, how'd he go empty?

Had oil growing up. Now on propane. I don't miss it.

 

[kelpaso1]

My last house had an oil furnace. I hated the $400 oil delivery every 4 months to heat my home. Moved, and heat my home for $600 all year with wood. Little bit of work but worth it.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

My 500 gallon in ground was original to the house, somewhere between '41 & '49. When I replaced it with a Roth (No better tank on the market IMO) there were no signs of leakage and very minor corrosion when they cut it open for inspection. It was a riveted tank, btw...

 

[Renegade1LI]

If the tank wasn't leaking, how'd he go empty?

Had oil growing up. Now on propane. I don't miss it.

I think he literally forgot to order it, it was just a coincidence that we noticed how bad the tank was. He likes to buy from the gypsises, just have to remember to order it.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

My last house had an oil furnace. I hated the $400 oil delivery every 4 months to heat my home.

You were getting screwed. I would have switched fuel companies after the first bill...

Tommy

 

[PCustoms]

You were getting screwed. I would have switched fuel companies after the first bill...

Tommy

Assuming 250 gallons, that's $1.60 per gallon for fuel oil. At 200 gallons it's an even $2 per gallon

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Assuming 250 gallons, that's $1.60 per gallon for fuel oil. At 200 gallons it's an even $2 per gallon

Ahh, you're right. I have auto fill and we lock in our price in August every year, so I guess my mental fuel cost-o-meter was off.

 

[nadogail]

When I lived in Alaska, our oil tanks were several 55 gallon drums set up on wooden stands. We had a all of their discharges feeding a manifold that fed the house; my father always kept a drum valved off, so we were never forced to order an after hours Emergancy delivery.
With routine painting and visual inspections I have no memory of a replacement of an underground tank.

 

[billconner]

Oil boiler here. I don't watch it closely but I think around $2000 a year for heat, which included hw in season. No natural gas and no likelihood of it ever since NYS is banning gas in new builds.

275 gal tank in basement. Seems fine. Think I'll smell it if it leaks.

 

[Renegade1LI]

Oil boiler here. I don't watch it closely but I think around $2000 a year for heat, which included hw in season. No natural gas and no likelihood of it ever since NYS is banning gas in new builds.

275 gal tank in basement. Seems fine. Think I'll smell it if it leaks.

You may not smell it till it’s too late, look at the bottom they develop small pin holes below the sludge, it may not leak till it’s too late. If you see the pic of my tank bottom there are holes but the sludge kept it from leaking and smelling, after enough holes it could open up with a delivery.

 

[Kaizen]

No nat gas up here. I would convert in a minute if there was. Propane is just as bad as oil imo as you are dependent on others for delivery. Common up here to have to haul diesel if the company is backed up or supply issues.
I changed oil companies 5 years ago and they had to inspect the tank. Although it was not leaking they suggested it be changed as it was 30 years old and i knew it had a lot of gunk in it which always clogged my filters.
Put in a roth double wall plastic one. Should outlast me. Still looking at getting a minisplit setup to do most of my heat in the future. I'll use the oil as backup/additional for when it gets really cold.

 

[Renegade1LI]

No nat gas up here. I would convert in a minute if there was. Propane is just as bad as oil imo as you are dependent on others for delivery. Common up here to have to haul diesel if the company is backed up or supply issues.
I changed oil companies 5 years ago and they had to inspect the tank. Although it was not leaking they suggested it be changed as it was 30 years old and i knew it had a lot of gunk in it which always clogged my filters.
Put in a roth double wall plastic one. Should outlast me. Still looking at getting a minisplit setup to do most of my heat in the future. I'll use the oil as backup/additional for when it gets really cold.

I have a heat pump a/c with a heating coil for emergency heat, first time it ever kicked in and worked like it should. Always good to have a back up heat source. Now I’m thinking of installing a10gal electric hwh on a bypass so we’ll have back up hot water too.

 

[Kaizen]

I have a heat pump a/c with a heating coil for emergency heat, first time it ever kicked in and worked like it should. Always good to have a back up heat source. Now I’m thinking of installing a10gal electric hwh on a bypass so we’ll have back up hot water too.

If you have ductwork already there are systems that can use it like Mr cool to do the heat and ac. Food for thought if you need a new one. However....i did see a video of a guy up my way that ran his heat on a mitsubishi for all of december and it was more expensive then oil. Lots of ways to go now a days.

 

[Renegade1LI]

If you have ductwork already there are systems that can use it like Mr cool to do the heat and ac. Food for thought if you need a new one. However....i did see a video of a guy up my way that ran his heat on a mitsubishi for all of december and it was more expensive then oil. Lots of ways to go now a days.

The electric is just for back up, the heating coil would burn some kws, when it’s35 and up i run the heat pump as it’s more cost effective. Might add a pellet insert into the fireplace, but the pellets are getting expensive.

 

[bas157]

When I had to get a new boiler I decided to replace the tank as well, also went with a Roth. If using outside, the do make some kind of 'roof' for it, mine is in the basement though. Another plus is the footprint is smaller than the typical 275 'oval' tanks. Also doesn't pull from the very bottom so any sludge would just settle and not go into the line and filter.

 

[u2slow]

@Renegade1LI your tank leak issues are exactly what local home insurance is up in arms about. It's basically extortion to get into compliance for continuing to heat with oil.

Anyone with a head on their shoulders has switched to wood out west here. Propane and electric are expensive. Nat gas will never be piped in.

 

[isb cornbinder]

You were getting screwed. I would have switched fuel companies after the first bill...

Tommy

My friend lived in an oil heated house his parents built in the early 1950s. He was always complaining about the cost of home heating fuel. I suggested that he add and burn the waste oil from his construction company vehicle oil changes. The waste oil was mixed with the home heating fuel (Diesel) in the tank. Nothing changed and the ancient oil burning boiler never missed a beat. We added a better, double filter system and a water separator.

 

[reader2580]

I thought the big issue with fuel oil is usually the cost, not the availability of the fuel.? I remember when fuel oil was $3 to $4 per gallon in 2008 that people were up in arms because they suddenly couldn't afford to pay for heat.

One of my neighbors has oil heat because natural gas was not available when the development was built. My house had electric heat when built due to that. Natural gas was installed at some point and I switched to gas when I bought the house. Oil heat is pretty rare in Minnesota. The alternative is usually propane.

 

[Renegade1LI]

We go through about 500 gals a year, heat & hot water, locked in at 2.99 this year so 120 a month, it's not terrible. Having a well insulated house helps a lot, plus we keep it around 65 & now the tank is new so there really is no incentive to switch, which would have to be propane.

 

[JAYoung]

I worked for an oil company service department in the 1970s and we had a customer who was handy and decided to weld up his own tank and save some money. Turns out a 300-gallon box is not a good design.
Subsequently, a delivery guy pumped about a thousand gallons of No. 2 into the DIYer's basement before he noticed something amiss.
Never did get the smell out.

 

[Showkey]

@Renegade1LI your tank leak issues are exactly what local home insurance is up in arms about. It's basically extortion to get into compliance for continuing to heat with oil.

Anyone with a head on their shoulders has switched to wood out west here. Propane and electric are expensive. Nat gas will never be piped in.

In many areas insurance have coverage exclusions on oil tank leaks and environmental clean up.

Had oil heat on two homes in the Northeast (NJ/PA) one just oil, one had oil and heat pump. Can’t decide which I disliked more the oil or the heat pump ?

 

[Sumboodie]

When I lived in Alaska, our oil tanks were several 55 gallon drums set up on wooden stands. We had a all of their discharges feeding a manifold that fed the house; my father always kept a drum valved off, so we were never forced to order an after hours Emergancy delivery.
With routine painting and visual inspections I have no memory of a replacement of an underground tank.

That's not very common anymore. Most folks have a 300 or 500 gallon tank on a stand now.
Or buried

 

[NUTTSGT]

We have fuel oil in the house with a 275 gallon tank in the basement. I swapped out the tank with a better tank when I was doing the concrete floor.

The old tank had started to seep and I could see the marks on the tank. The new to me tank, got cleaned up and a coat of paint on it. I made new legs and replumbed it. I need to move it so I can do the block wall behind it during the summer. Of course that depends on how full the tank is.

I've considered making the switch to propane but there's the cost of a new furnace, install and setting a tank outside. Yeah, I could get a buried tank but it would be too close to the well. You're also tied to the tank owner for filling unless you buy the tank.

Positive of having fuel oil, I own the tank and can have whoever fill it. If I'm low, out or price is out of whack, I can fill jugs with dyed kerosene (off road diesel) and refill my tank at home. Did that once with a price spike and beat the price game.

Positive of having propane, new high efficiency unit is ducting with PVC. I can reline my chimney and put an add-on wood furnace in the basement. I could recover the cost of the changeover in about 4 years.

 

[yeldogt]

Have bought many houses with oil heat -- have only replaced oil once. That was a big stone house with boilers --- twin 750g tanks in the basement. Roth tanks are the best ... but, my memory is only one size.

You have to have oil equipment serviced each year and the way the pricing works ........that = a service contract. Oil equipment also makes more noise ... that can be an issue depending on layout. My last project had two oil furnaces and oil water heater ... it was about $1000 just for the contracts.

For many years oil and NG was about the same ... that started to change when NG equipment got more efficient and the price of NG dropped so much. Propane was always a bit more ..... but, you had less maintenance vs going oil. Big houses w/ hot water heat often use oil if no NG available -- it's a question of fuel storage. Oil is easy ...

 

[InsanePyro]

My grandparents used it for years till they sold their house last year. I now have 150 gallons of fuel for my torpedo heater.

 

[Renegade1LI]

In many areas insurance have coverage exclusions on oil tank leaks and environmental clean up.

Had oil heat on two homes in the Northeast (NJ/PA) one just oil, one had oil and heat pump. Can’t decide which I disliked more the oil or the heat pump ?

I have to say i love the heat pump from 32 degrees and up it is economical, the back up emergency heat is a nice feature. I keep it set 1 degrees below the boiler just in case, twice in 5 years it came on when the boiler tripped out.

 

[Renegade1LI]

We have fuel oil in the house with a 275 gallon tank in the basement. I swapped out the tank with a better tank when I was doing the concrete floor.

The old tank had started to seep and I could see the marks on the tank. The new to me tank, got cleaned up and a coat of paint on it. I made new legs and replumbed it. I need to move it so I can do the block wall behind it during the summer. Of course that depends on how full the tank is.

I've considered making the switch to propane but there's the cost of a new furnace, install and setting a tank outside. Yeah, I could get a buried tank but it would be too close to the well. You're also tied to the tank owner for filling unless you buy the tank.

Positive of having fuel oil, I own the tank and can have whoever fill it. If I'm low, out or price is out of whack, I can fill jugs with dyed kerosene (off road diesel) and refill my tank at home. Did that once with a price spike and beat the price game.

Positive of having propane, new high efficiency unit is ducting with PVC. I can reline my chimney and put an add-on wood furnace in the basement. I could recover the cost of the changeover in about 4 years.

As a contractor i can get off road diesel when needed, just in case, i also thought about propane but really have no issue with oil. I service the boiler myself so really no cost other than time and some consumables. Really thinking about a pellet or wood stove, i have a lot of hard wood. We use a wood stove at our house upstate and the furnace never kicks on.

 

[couch67]

Positive of having propane, new high efficiency unit is ducting with PVC. I can reline my chimney and put an add-on wood furnace in the basement. I could recover the cost of the changeover in about 4 years.

I swapped out oil furnace and hw tank with propane about 7 years ago now. Put in a 1000 gal tank that I get filled once in late summer. First 5 years my heating bills were cut in half compared to oil. Prices have gone up the last few years but still cheaper than oil. And I gained some space back in the shop, which is where the oil tank was!

 

[rlitman]

... If you do need a new tank the Roth is a great tank, nice to have a secondary containment...

That's half the story. The Roth is plastic inside, which is why most insurance companies are insisting on them, because they will never corrode out. But the fault is not purely on the steel tanks. Fuel now has reduced sulfur, which has led to many perfectly good tanks rotting out in short order.

...We added a better, double filter system and a water separator.

That sounds good on paper, but water enters as vapor through the vent and condenses inside the tank where it drips to the bottom. Sludge forms inside the tank as bacteria/fungi (I believe a symbiont) lives at the oil/water interface. Neither water nor sludge are likely to be delivered from a reputable dealer, yet both are common storage issues.

 

[Renegade1LI]

That's half the story. The Roth is plastic inside, which is why most insurance companies are insisting on them, because they will never corrode out. But the fault is not purely on the steel tanks. Fuel now has reduced sulfur, which has led to many perfectly good tanks rotting out in short order.

That sounds good on paper, but water enters as vapor through the vent and condenses inside the tank where it drips to the bottom. Sludge forms inside the tank as bacteria/fungi (I believe a symbiont) lives at the oil/water interface. Neither water nor sludge are likely to be delivered from a reputable dealer, yet both are common storage issues.

Very true! sludge is a *****, going to start adding some fuel conditioner like we do at our shop, it does seem to help. Starting with a new clean system, clean fuel & filters going to add biocide & conditioner & see how it goes. It sounds like a lot of trouble but I am going to empty the tank before next winter & see whats on the bottom. Pump the clear fuel into a drum & **** out any junk, just another maintenance item, hopefully it will be clean.

 

[rlitman]

Very true! sludge is a *****, going to start adding some fuel conditioner like we do at our shop, it does seem to help. Starting with a new clean system, clean fuel & filters going to add biocide & conditioner & see how it goes. It sounds like a lot of trouble but I am going to empty the tank before next winter & see whats on the bottom. Pump the clear fuel into a drum & **** out any junk, just another maintenance item, hopefully it will be clean.

I wouldn't bother. Just take a sample from the bottom and call it a day. Anyway, I'll bet it stays clean.

Before I had a Bacon Bomb sample thief, I made a bottom sampler for the diesel tank at work. I threaded an 18" long 1/4" PEX faucet hookup tube through a large steel nut that would get the tube to sink and sit flat on the bottom. With some Tygon tubing, I'd use a hand MityVac vacuum pump (for brake bleeding) to pull up fuel from the bottom into a clean brake bleeding container to analyze the fuel condition. Something like this:


I would also put a dab of Gasoila water finding paste on the bottom sampler to see if there's any water at all in the tank. I use the AP02, but the cheaper WT25 paste is fine for fuel oil.

 

[reader2580]

As a contractor i can get off road diesel when needed, just in case, i also thought about propane but really have no issue with oil. I service the boiler myself so really no cost other than time and some consumables. Really thinking about a pellet or wood stove, i have a lot of hard wood. We use a wood stove at our house upstate and the furnace never kicks on.

Of the topic, but the one time I bought five gallons of off road diesel at a station near home. They had a no tax price on the pump, but they charged me the price with tax. The clerk said I had to file with the state to get the tax refunded. Lot of good it did to try to save a dollar or two on fuel taxes. I believe the state would allow me to file for a tax refund on regular diesel so why buy red diesel if I have to pay taxes.

 

[Jackfre]

The Roth tanks are indeed the best tank. They are 100% containment tanks. If the plastic bladder leaks the oil is contained. I’ve represented multiple oil heat products and components in my career and was on the NFPA 31, “Oil Installation” committee for 15 yrs. The problems with a oil are a lack of modulating technology, over sizing due to the nozzle sizes, amount of service requirement and in todays world oil quality. Is it bio or what? In many cases the oil attacks the pump seals etc. and has caused real problems for manufacturers and owners. If I had oil with good fairly new equipment i would not change it out. With older equipment I would have replacement w2ith gas in mind. I would also add a mini-split to handle the majority of the heating and not bring the boiler on line until it got cold. Fewer and fewer people have oil. Gas made tremendous inroads into the market. Now with some areas trying to eliminate gas due to its environmental aspects more and more people will go with compressor bearing equipment and that technology will likely win the day.

 

[Renegade1LI]

Of the topic, but the one time I bought five gallons of off road diesel at a station near home. They had a no tax price on the pump, but they charged me the price with tax. The clerk said I had to file with the state to get the tax refunded. Lot of good it did to try to save a dollar or two on fuel taxes. I believe the state would allow me to file for a tax refund on regular diesel so why buy red diesel if I have to pay taxes.

Thats correct, as a contractor I have to file an exemption & the fuel is delivered to our shop or pumped into the equipment, they won't give you an exemption on regular diesel, has to be for off road use. That's how the get you at a truck inspection, they check the fuel color.

 

[PoorUB]

My friend lived in an oil heated house his parents built in the early 1950s. He was always complaining about the cost of home heating fuel. I suggested that he add and burn the waste oil from his construction company vehicle oil changes. The waste oil was mixed with the home heating fuel (Diesel) in the tank. Nothing changed and the ancient oil burning boiler never missed a beat. We added a better, double filter system and a water separator.

I have a buddy that heated with oil, he also did a ton of auto repair in his garage. Anything that would burn went into the fuel oil tank, engine oil, transmission fluid, even gasoline. He would replace the nozzle and a new filter in the fall and never had issues. I figured his furnace would be a mess but one day when he had it a part he had me stop by and take a look and it look good, cleaner than most I worked on. Maybe the gasoline kept it clean!

 

[billconner]

This thread made me look up details. 6900 to 7500 heating degree days - Canadian border north of Syracuse - 1044 sq ft on 2 floors plus basement - 770 gallons of fuel oil per year average over last two - hwh and domestic hot water during heating season. Went from 2.35 a year ago to 3.25 this month.

Propane for just gas insert in one room - 150 a year - from 2.60 to 2.90 over last year.

Domestic hot water is electric in summer when gas boiler is off.

Interesting. Was a lot more for a similar size but much older house in Chicago burbs before 2019 - like $5000 a year for gas - hwh, domestic hw, and range.

 

[rlitman]

I have a buddy that heated with oil, he also did a ton of auto repair in his garage. Anything that would burn went into the fuel oil tank, engine oil, transmission fluid, even gasoline ... Maybe the gasoline kept it clean!

That sort of attitude has caused countless catastrophic fires.

 

[u2slow]

In many areas insurance have coverage exclusions on oil tank leaks and environmental clean up.

That would be nice! Unfortunately they don't play that way here out here.