Fuel tank w/ pump inside the garage safe?

[JB740i]

I'm planning on buying a 12g aluminum gas tank off of Craigslist tonight. I went by and looked at it this morning. The owner used to own a business delivering fuel oil up north so I assume he knows a lot about storage tanks.

He hooked the pump up to 12v and showed me than it worked. He has a line plumbed out of the bottom in case he'd gotten a diesel generator he could gravity feed it.

On the top next to the pump there is a whistle? that is to tell the delivery guy when the tank is full if he doesn't want to look through the port.


Any reasons not to buy it? The cost will be split between my brother and I and used for long term fuel storage. I don't know anything about having fuel delivered. I know if I put it out in the garage outback, there isn't a way to drive a truck back there. If the delivery truck had a 150' hose he could make it but that's about it.

Any reason it wouldn't be perfectly safe inside the garage? Will it produce any flammable vapors or anything? Better to keep it outside?

Only reason to keep it inside it to keep it from prying eyes.

 

[Bib Overalls]

What kind of fuel? Gasoline should be outside. Always. I will not bring a 5 gallon container of the stuff into my shop.

 

[JB740i]

Yeah, gas.

I believe he was using it for gasoline also. He said it was for his tractor, so it could have been diesel too. Not sure really.

Okay, so gas outside. I don't have a slab to set it on. It's on 4 pipe legs right now so I thought I would want it on concrete for stability. Maybe I could put pavers under the legs outside.

 

[Junkman]

Not worth trying to buy gasoline in bulk, because it will go stale before you will use most of it. Gasoline today, has a shelf life of about 45 days before it starts to go bad. You will also be paying a premium for delivery over what you can buy it for at a station. If you choose to have the state gasoline tax removed from the bill, then you will need to keep detailed usage records. Unless you own a farm, using the gasoline for farming purposes, the state will be looking at you with a microscope. They don't like getting cheated out of gasoline taxes. I suggest that you look at all the issues before deciding to spend money on a tank that will ultimately cost you more money per gallon than purchasing gas at the local station..

 

[JB740i]

Well I would be treating it with the necessary stabilizers of course. Which I understand lengthens the shelf life considerably.

I appreciate your input on the taxes. I hadn't considered that aspect of it. My wife's grandmother has a small tank filled up on her farm but it's mostly just for her car now, and solely out of habit from when her husband was alive and they farmed full time.

I only asked about the delivery truck because the owner had it filled at his house that was. I don't have any personal knowledge of how that works.

 

[Kevin54]

I'm planning on buying a 12g aluminum gas tank off of Craigslist tonight.

Your not going to have the guy deliver 12 gallons are you? I'm assuming 120 gallons? And if it is that big, I sure wouldn't want it IN the garage.

 

[JB740i]

Your not going to have the guy deliver 12 gallons are you? I'm assuming 120 gallons? And if it is that big, I sure wouldn't want it IN the garage.

Sorry, 12 guage or gauge. Whichever it is for metal thickness.

It's about 270 gallons.

 

[walrus]

There are all kinds of regs with bulk gasoline storage. I'd bet your insurance company won't like it. I'd bet the fire marshall office won't like it either. Does it have emergency venting, is it double wall. Is it UL listed for the purpose?

 

[boiler7904]

What do your homeowners insurance company and local / state fire marshall think about storing bulk fuel at your home?

Will the tank have to be inspected periodically?

Talk to bulk fuel dealers and get an idea of what costs will be involved with having them deliver to your home. I'm guessing that volume discounts will be offset by delivery charges.

If you'll only be using the fuel off road, you might be able to get around your state's fuel taxes. I know that diesel used for agriculture and construction is not subject to road taxes.

If you decide to go through with it, I'd buy a new 120v pump. Wire it to through a standard light switch that is inside your building. Helps with preventing theft yet lets you get to the fuel easily when you need it.

Id also be looking into filtration of the fuel and what sediment is in the tank currently.

 

[JB740i]

Okay, so you've got me on some of the questions. I'll plan on keeping it outside.

I will look into installing a filter somehow (inline with the hose) and keeping the power source inside.

I don't think I'll get involved with bulk delivery then. I'll just fill it up as I go along.

 

[Uncle Buck]

As to bulk storage you should have 50' of distance between any structures and the tank, 10' from a street or public right of way. If you really want to do it right you should at a minimum provide an earthen spill containment dam that would have a liner and have a capacity equal to that of the tank.

If you were a business there are many more criteria I would share as well such as needing a fire extinguisher in the vicinity etc.....

 

[Kevin54]

After reading back through the post, I have to ask....are you planning on storing deisel or gasoline? I know what type of tank you are talking about now as we have a few farms in our area that has them. But in either case, I would not store them inside. If you are worried about prying eyes, I would erect some type of privacy fence to hide the tank from the road.

As to bulk storage you should have 50' of distance between any structures and the tank, 10' from a street or public right of way.

With 270 gallons of gas, (if that is what it is) I would want a little bit more distance than that between it and me.

 

[JB740i]

Yep, was planning on gas. I'll check with him tonight as to what HE had in it. I would assume that being retired from the business he was in that he'd be aware of the dos and don'ts. That was what made me even consider putting it inside.

I'll keep it outside, away from the building, and get some sort of box built around it to make it look like a well building or something (although no one has a well around here).

Will definitely have a fire extinguisher.

If I ever wanted to use it for a generator, how would that work. Are there gas generators that could be "gravity fed" (his term) or just diesel?

 

[akdiesel]

With that much fuel a standard fire extinguisher will not do.

I have a 40 gallon ss fuel tank in a horizontal position round tank style. I keep it inside year round. When I need to fill it up I load into the back of my truck and take it down to the fuel station. I use it for filling my small equipment like snowmachines, 4 wheelers, lawn mowers, etc.
It has a 120v pump with a filter, meter and a beather vent on the other side where I also fill it.
Haveing this set up is no different than having a vehicle in the shop/garage. Most vehicles have a 25-30 gallon tank that also has a vent on the filler cap. Although the size of your tank is a whole different beast. I can bet you there are a lot of people that take things for granted and park there vehicles in backwards at times right next to their hot water heaters. This is part of the reason why they have codes for placements of open flame equipment and buildings.
If placeing outside (sounds like you best option for that size of tank) think about burial. The sun can make the tank skin hot and I believe that is why most above ground fuel vessels are painted white in order to relect the sun's heat.
I am building a tray for it that has casters so I can move it around if needed.

 

[dreamingmuscle]

Ok thingking outside the box here. If you are going to build a shed and and pad to put it in. Why not put it on or in a cheap truck or van. Better yet a trailer to cut down on insurance and tag fees.

Check if you local distribution companies will fill it for you. If you show up with it at thier site.
________
vapir no2

 

[nissan_crawler]

Ok thingking outside the box here. If you are going to build a shed and and pad to put it in. Why not put it on or in a cheap truck or van. Better yet a trailer to cut down on insurance and tag fees.

Check if you local distribution companies will fill it for you. If you show up with it at thier site.

If a truck can't get back there to fill it, how is he going to get a van or trailer back there?

 

[JB740i]

If a truck can't get back there to fill it, how is he going to get a van or trailer back there?

I can drive back there with no problem it's just that until I cut a little tree down I've got to drive over the drain field slightly after squeezing between some branches in the next lot over and my AC unit outside. The fuel truck wouldn't fit but cars/trucks/vans would. It was a good suggestion.

My lot is 85x330 and the garage is about 180' behind the back of the house. Then there's about 30 feet between the back of the detached garage and the back fence. I keep the trailer back behind the garage and now the fuel tank too. No other houses on any lots on my block at all.

It is a little tight back there. It would be much more difficult to get anything larger than my 4x8 garden trailer back there. As of now, I can drive in, pull the truck into the corner and back the trailer up behind the garage.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Farms around here have storage tanks like that all over the place. My father has both Diesel and one for Gas, I think they are both 200 gallons. Set right next to the shop and have inline fuel filters on the hoses. Nothing out of the ordinary around here, and wouldn't think the insurance company thinks anything about it.

FWIW; he's been trying to sell me some of his $5+ dollar Diesel he bought this fall during harvest for my fuel oil furnace.... I just keep ing at him. (and that was without taxes - farm use)

I'd go for it, when I build my shop it will likely have a storage tank next to the drive for fuel. Probably lean towards a gravity tank so no electical needed.

 

[JB740i]

Thanks. I kind of like the 12v pump unit that I can run it from a vehicle battery or something. I'm picturing having a battery in a box outside that's kept topped off with a solar panel trickle charger.

The seller said I should wash it out with some gasoline and drain it. It had dyed diesel in it and he said possible sediment. Not sure if that will work or not. Do the in-line filters work just like one on a vehicle? Can they be hose clamped in line?

 

[Junkman]

I know of a local farm in CT that had a tank for gasoline and one for diesel. The state fire marshal told them that the gasoline one had to go, or they would have to build a containment around it, and it had to be 300 feet from any building. Also said that it was subject to annual inspection, and that it had to be tested every x number of years. They decided that it was cheaper to drive into town to fill the farm trucks that were still gasoline. If you have a leak with gasoline, the clean up costs are astronomical. The people you should be asking these questions of are the state and local government, but once you ask the question, they will be holding you to the letter of the law. Have you given thought to the real reason the seller is getting rid of it? Ever think that he doesn't want to pay to have it disposed of???

 

[Uncle Buck]

I know of a local farm in CT that had a tank for gasoline and one for diesel. The state fire marshal told them that the gasoline one had to go, or they would have to build a containment around it, and it had to be 300 feet from any building. Also said that it was subject to annual inspection, and that it had to be tested every x number of years. They decided that it was cheaper to drive into town to fill the farm trucks that were still gasoline. If you have a leak with gasoline, the clean up costs are astronomical. The people you should be asking these questions of are the state and local government, but once you ask the question, they will be holding you to the letter of the law. Have you given thought to the real reason the seller is getting rid of it? Ever think that he doesn't want to pay to have it disposed of???

A whole lot of accurate truth there. You would be wise to listen to that. I work with these regulations IE. OSHA, NFPA NEC etc. and you would be wise to take a pass on this deal!

 

[JB740i]

It's sitting behind my garage.

Thanks guys but it's a 2 year old metal tank that was sitting inside his 16' ceiling RV garage. I don't think disposal costs are really an issue here.

I appreciate the warnings and the rest of the comments. We'll call it good enough for now. Thanks.

 

[bigc]

It's ILLEGAL and UNSAFE to store that much gas outside in a residential neighborhood!

 

[JB740i]

That's cool. Show me why and show me the where the law says that. Like I said, I'm on a half acre surrounded by 40 empty lots. Hardly a residential neighborhood.

 

[1redTA]

that amount of gas is quite alot to have sitting around waiting to be used. I believe that would be bulk storage ( over a 1000lbs by water wieght ) and the earthen berm would have to contain that amount plus an adeqate amount for rain fall. If above ground it well have to be vented, grounded and painted to keep your self from some sort of B.L.E.V.E. Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion. talk to a local PAID FD about NFPA 472 , NIOSH and an ERG
I could understand if you had a large boat and this was cheaper than using the local marina for filling the fuel tank but man! as a firefighter I have to say can you get by with a couple of 5 gallon tanks? We use 10 5 gallons tanks to fill the gas tank on our boat when we don't take it out of the water. I thought about a polyvinyl 25 tank but I don't like having the stuff hanging around. Later Art

 

[walrus]

That's cool. Show me why and show me the where the law says that. Like I said, I'm on a half acre surrounded by 40 empty lots. Hardly a residential neighborhood.

One call to the State Fire Marshalls office will tell you whether its legal or not. In the State of Maine its 50 feet from a dwelling and 50 feet from a property line. All new skid tanks must be double wall( a tank within a tank) or must have liquid tite containment 110% larger than the largest tank in the dike.

 

[lh4x4]

Don't do it. You will shoot your eyes out!

 

[iamhistory]

JB.......I say do what you need to do, just be safe. If we worried about every bs regulation the gov't has placed on us we'd never be able to do diddly ****. It's getting worse and worse and most of it is simply regulatory nonsense from a nanny state that ends up breaking its own laws half the time anyway

I have a 55 gallon drum that I keep diesel in......INSIDE the shop and it works fine. I use a hand crank pump that goes down into the drum through the bung opening. The reason I keep it inside is because the farm equipment dealer that I do business with is a big farmer in our area and his recommendation was to keep it inside due to the sun causing condensation to form inside the tank and then you have water in your fuel. And because of the heat that the sun generates many people feel it's more risky to keep it outside.

Even my grandfather kept a 250 gallon tank inside the barn from when I was a kid until the day he died.......never had a second thought about it. It too was diesel though.

I also keep several gas cans in my shop and several diesel cans inside and I haven't had any leaks or explosions yet. Can't be any less safe than the dumbasses we've all witnessed leaving their cars run while they are getting gas or even smoking a cigarette while filling up!!! Yes, I saw it with my own eyes. Waited across the street until he left before I pulled in.

Think about it.......all the homes and garages and storage tanks in your area, all the lawnmowers, 4 wheelers, generators, machines, and on and on.....have you ever read of someone having an accident?

 

[Junkman]

Storing diesel inside isn't an issue of safety. I know people that have 5 330 gallon fuel oil tanks in the cellar because they wanted the best discount when fuel oil was reasonably priced. Today, they have 3 empty, and two that they use. Here is an experiment to try to decide if keeping gasoline or diesel is safe in the garage. Put a little bit of diesel in a metal pie pan, and try to light it with your propane torch. Then do the same thing with some gasoline, and instead of using the torch, just throw a lit match into it. See which bursts into flame faster. You can't light the diesel fuel. The gasoline will burst into flames immediately. If he were using this tank for diesel, it would be perfectly safe. When it comes to gasoline, there is a big danger. This is the very same reason that you can't carry your propane tanks into a building to have them filled. They are too explosive. Gasoline, like propane, must be stored outside. I know that a lot of people store a 5 gallon gasoline can in the garage, but that doesn't make it safe. If the home were to catch fire, and that fire were to get into the garage with a large gasoline storage tank in there, the tank would explode, and probably level the home completely. Gasoline explodes, diesel doesn't. There are lots of things that people do that are not safe, but I am not going to be encouraging them to do anything that isn't safe.

 

[akdiesel]

Junkman, I agree with you on a lot of levels, but if what you are saying is true than all vehicles must be emptied prior to pulling into the garage or fill the tanks full to minimize vapors in the tank.
Here are some ideas as to why I felt safe with my set up I have in my shop.
In cold temps (-20 f), I pull my truck out of my garage (temp in the garage is approx 55f in the winter). I am out on the road for over two hours and then pull it back into the garage over night. The fuel tank, if not vented would expand beyond it's capabilities and rupture. The vehicles have a vent on their fill cap and most garages have a vent low to the ground for vapor to excape.
Propane has a lower exposive limit than gasoline and methanol is also lower than gasoline. We store a couple of methanol in 55 gallon drums indoors in the plant that I work that also have the brass vents. These are in a class 1 div 2 area that can not have any spark or flames, but still should not be any different than a garage/shop as long as you take the proper precautions when welding, cutting, etc...
Please don't take any info you get off of the web literaly. There are lots of great ideas that people have and that should get the interest going, but research it the best you can, esspecialy if it involes yours or someone elses life.