I bought a stuck Lister diesel genset years ago (it's still stuck) on a single axle trailer with a fuel tank. I'm thinking about re-purposing the trailer just for fuel. I wonder about a single axle and the center of balance?
Fuel trailer build!
- Thread starter 930dreamer
- Start date
Firebrick43
Well-known member
10 percent should be on the tongue as a good rule of thumb. So find the center of gravity and move it forward to get the 10 percent. \
Remember that 119 gal is the max in one tank or you have to have a hazmat license. You can have multiple separate tanks as long as none of them have more than 119 gal individually. and the total is under 1000 gals total if I recall correctly.
This gets fun when you consider the potential weights involved. A 3/4 ton truck can support a full 120 gallon tank in tounge weight alone, assuming 7 lbs/gal diesel.
Thus if you only have one tank, it literally doesn't matter. If you have multiple, it starts to get fun. If you have 3 120 gallon tanks, 2/3 full, then sloshing become an issue when stopping. Not because of the new tounge weight up front, but because you run the risk of loading and unloading your rear end while trying to stop. Lateral mounting would be the easiest solution of you don't wanna use baffles.
TLDR: A modern (mid 2000s+) truck will not care as you are limited by the weight rating of your axle.
Thus if you only have one tank, it literally doesn't matter. If you have multiple, it starts to get fun. If you have 3 120 gallon tanks, 2/3 full, then sloshing become an issue when stopping. Not because of the new tounge weight up front, but because you run the risk of loading and unloading your rear end while trying to stop. Lateral mounting would be the easiest solution of you don't wanna use baffles.
TLDR: A modern (mid 2000s+) truck will not care as you are limited by the weight rating of your axle.
RoninB4
Well-known member
-I don't have the math skills for COG in the part of my brain I use daily so I usually cheat by using software. Finding COG can be done with several 3D CAD programs once everything has been modeled, which shouldn't take very long to accomplish if you have all the dimensions. Just a suggestion if the OP doesn't want to do the math.
The problem is the OP's question doesn't have a single answer. It depends on the tank configuration and the loading. For a single full tank it is pretty trivial to calc. Actually it is fairly trivial for any loading condition until you start talking about sloshing. For three tanks partially loaded, it is actually still pretty trivial to do the math, but you are going to get very different answers depending on the exact dimensions.
jack stand
Well-known member
How big is this tank? Those Listers are real fuel sippers so I'm guessing that the tank might be smaller. Sorry if I interrupted your question as using the existing tank.
OP
txvwnut
Well-known member
I built one for the day job and centered the tank over the axles. It's on a tandem axle trailer, tank is a 150 gallons and tows relatively fine behind a 3/4 ton truck.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
I have used fusion 360 to do the same.
All of the manufactured mulit tank non hazmat fuel trailers have cells that are approx. 30" cubed. Sloshing is non existent with them. I haven't seen/driven a tank truck yet that has that much baffling.
Hope the people pulling it have a hazmat. The fines will be in the 10's of thousands of dollars.
RoninB4
Well-known member
-Yes sloshing would be a dynamic thing IF there was no baffling. Member @Firebrick43 has posted that they all have cells in the absence of baffling. Even if there were no baffles/cells the tank(s) could possibly be mounted traverse if small enough that would negate some of the effect of sloshing as @baldy343 suggested. We can't just post statements about how trivial it is until we have dimensions now can we?
That's why I posted "if you have all the dimensions". I guess you missed that part. A pretty trivial thing to miss.
OneEyedMan
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Curious about this for the same reason as 930.
Does the 30” cube cells also apply to the myriad of 500-900 gallon fuel and fuel/def trailers that have proliferated over the last eight or so years? I’ve never laid hands on one to check although I’m considering copying one myself.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Many of those trailers are non hazmat trailers and yes, they are limited to 119 per tank to be non hazmat. 30" cubes is 115 gallons, isn't to high, makes for a 60" ish wide trailer (minus wheels) so it tows neatly behind a pickup and its just a matter of 4, 6, or 8 cells for the trailer size needed.
You can see how the individual tanks are arranged on a non hazmat fuel trailer, this is a thunder creek that are popular here
Now here is the kicker, thunder creek also sells hazmat required trailers that look very similar. They are a single tank or have just fuel tank and a smaller Def tank, and the main fuel tank is baffled but not separate smaller individual tanks. Many farmers in particular see the cheaper price and look similar and don't understand that they still might need hazmat licenses for them in many situations, although there are farmer exemptions although the exemption is very specific and many farmers are violating them. Most farmers are not maintaining shipping papers or have the hazmat training. Here its common to cross state lines due to the proximity of Illinois. We have handed out a lot of placards for them as well as many farmers don't know about the regs.
There are 2 situations where a Farmer using Thunder Creek's 500, 750, and 990 gallon fuel trailers are exempt from the Hazmat certification and endorsement. (49 CFR 173.5 a, b)
The first exemption is when a Farmer is traveling in their home state, on all roads except interstate highways, and is traveling between fields of the same farm. In this instance, Farmers are also exempt from being trained in Hazmat Transportation (49 CFR 172.G) and are not required to have Emergency Response Information, such as Shipping Papers, Bill of Lading, or MSDS sheets during transportation of diesel fuel. (49 CFR 172.H)
The second exemption is conditional on the quantity of fuel being transported. When a Farmer is traveling in their home state, within 150 miles of their home farm, and they are moving fuel to or from a farm (i.e. they went into town to fill with fuel), the following conditions apply:
- Under 502 Gallons
- Shipping Papers or Bill of Lading must be present.
- Safety Placards must be visible on the trailers
- Over 502 Gallons
- HAZMAT Required
- Shipping Papers or Bill of Lading must be present.
- Safety Placards must be visible on the trailers
- Emergency Response Information/MSDS sheet must be present.
- HAZMAT Training will have to be completed and certified.
OneEyedMan
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Thanks Firebrick. I fall under all the requirements for the exemptions but it’s good to see the differences in what’s available. I’ll pay attention to the two styles of trailer when I’m looking at used ones as I didn’t know there were two versions. Sorry to hijack your thread, 930.
OP
Went to the tire store with my trailer rims, only to discover their two different sizes. I can't believe I didn't notice that earlier. 
I wonder if these came off of a tractor front end? I found these.
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I wonder if these came off of a tractor front end? I found these.
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