Furnace problem, any ideas?

[spunger1]

Hey guys

I have the original furnace from when my home was built back in the early 60's and it has worked fine until tonight and I need some help. Everything has worked fine until yesterday morning. I went to turn the heater on from the thermostat and it fired up like normal except the furnace now makes a rapid clicking sound while on. It works and blows heat fine but the entire time it's running there's a rapid clicking coming from the furnace.

I've replaced the batteries in the thermostat thinking that might be it but no luck. It sounds electrical of some kind but I cand figure it out. I checked the breaker outside and reset it. If I turn the manual fan switch on the furnace fan works fine with no noise. The moment the thermostat turns it on the clicking starts. Thermostat is a cheapy unit but is about 6 years old.

Any ideas or help to diagnose what's wrong would be greatly appreciated.

 

[CADPoint]

Sounds like the ignition is being continual being called. This is the clicking
sound. that your hearing. The little board or control module that's inside
the Unit probably needs to be replaced. If you put the serial number in your favorite search engine you'll see who sells them.

Or the ignition stick itself is covered up. Silk from a spider web, dust build up...

Laymen terms:
This build up could stop the ignitor from reaching temp IE or sensing not enough arc it getting through,(even thou it ignites gas) thus continually being called... that's controlled by the modular. Or the Ignition stick is just old and tired!

Power off, be safe - or call a professional.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Picture of inside furnace?

 

[lilredex]

Assume this is a NG furnace? It could be the fan switch, if the noise goes away when turned to manual, (the thermostat part of that switch is bypassed when on manual). Also,listen/watch the burner when the clicking is going on, that will tell you what your wall thermostat is doing.

 

[sms1974]

sounds like its a spark ignition system could be just a dirty pilot...

 

[Jagmandave]

If it's an original furnace from the 1960's like the OP says, it doesn't have spark ignition....it has a pilot light.

About the only thing it could be is the gas valve cycling or possible a relay - I can't think of any 60's appliances that had "control boards", those came much later.....but I'm completely willing to be proven wrong.

If it's making that much noise the OP either needs to find the source of the noise or call someone who can diagnose it properly.

 

[sms1974]

some 60's era furnaces did have spark ignition systems. the early G60 controls came out in that era. a picture of the furnace would be a help. it could be a wiring issue or a limit control that's dropping the gas valve out and back in but he should be able to see that happening. another possibility could be a fan relay or a humidifier causing it... pictures or make and model of furnace will make it a lot easier

 

[spunger1]

Thanks for some of the help and suggestions. I was able to find a spare thermostat and tried that. It still clicks. I can probably youtube a video of the clicking.

It seems to be coming from that red gas valve. That's the only thing the thermostat is hooked up to. Thankfully it's so primitive it's not like I have a lot to look at to go wrong.

Any ideas what that red gizmo is?

 

[east_tn_emc]

Any ideas what that red gizmo is?

Hate to be "that guy" but....

Unless you are making a joke with that comment......stop and call a professional. You are dealing with a) natural gas which could launch your house into a low-earth orbit. B) potential of carbon monoxide getting into your house based on the age of the unit and how those burners look...which means you and your family go to sleep and never wake up.

Get a pro to look over your unit very carefully...most heating systems were not designed to last as long as you have indicated.

Also....do you have carbon monoxide detectors in your house?

I will work on a lot of things around my house...but stop at the things that can explode.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I wonder if it isn't the coil in that large x huge gas valve rattling around. If it was me Id change out the 2 valves for a separate combination gas valve,Id check the heat exchanger in it first though before dumping too much money into it.

 

[sms1974]

Hell ya that's an oldie! I have an old man I do service work for with the same furnace but with 3 burners... It's a neat old set up, separate pilot safety yet the gas valve has it's own pilot safety built in to it. Those are the first of the double redundant gas safety valve set ups.

The clicking is most likely caused either a temperature limit or a bad wire conection. Those old solenoid type valves generally either work or don't... Trace back the wires that go to the valve ( aka red thingy ) and check for a loose connection along the way.

Your limit safety is probably in the line voltage side of the wiring so you will need to look through that too. As said above your easiest fix is a modern gas valve although that should only be done by a competent hvac professional...

 

[spunger1]

Hate to be "that guy" but....

Unless you are making a joke with that comment......stop and call a professional. You are dealing with a) natural gas which could launch your house into a low-earth orbit. B) potential of carbon monoxide getting into your house based on the age of the unit and how those burners look...which means you and your family go to sleep and never wake up.

Get a pro to look over your unit very carefully...most heating systems were not designed to last as long as you have indicated.

Also....do you have carbon monoxide detectors in your house?

I will work on a lot of things around my house...but stop at the things that can explode.

Gas has been off. It clicks weather it's on or off so I made sure while tinkering there's no gas. I've left it off until it gets fixed.

I'm going to check connections and if need be clean wires etc... If that doesn't work by checking connections I'll call someone tomorrow and see if it's an easy repair or better to just update.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[Mike007]

Spunger, I know this isn't what you asked, but since this is the internet.....

Replace that dinosaur. It's way past it's designed life expectancy. It's time. A modern furnace will be much safer and I wouldn't be shocked if you saw an increase in efficiency as high as 40%.

 

[Jagmandave]

I have to agree.....my house was built in 1964, about 8 years ago I replaced the original furnace with a 90% efficiency Lenox and my gas bill was cut in half, even today with gas prices twice what they were a few years ago, I'm not spending near as much for heat as I used to.

I bought the unit thru a friend's business and did the install myself. Watch what you buy for an old house tho, the new unit will be significantly smaller physically than the one it replaces and you'll have some interesting ductwork to do - it's easiest if you buy the matching A/C unit at the same time and do it all at once.....

 

[Rockhead261]

?

Jesus CHRIST! Hasn't anyone told you that unit is installed SIDEWAYS??

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Jesus CHRIST! Hasn't anyone told you that unit is installed SIDEWAYS??

That's an early prototype for the modern multi-position furnace!

 

[spunger1]

Sorry for the sideways pic. I tried to change it on my iPhone but it was a weird day.

We have someone scheduled to come out and take a look at it either Friday or Monday. I'm prepared if they say it needs to be replaced to bite the bullet and do it. After some of the warmer days we had this summer and fall I'm tempted to ask about adding ac as well. It's not necessary here where I live but would be nice at night when it's hot. If the cost isn't too bad and the upkeep is minimal I'll do it.

I know it's an old unit. It'd be nice to not have to replace it but I realize cry once pay once. I follow that with my hobbies so I think I need to do the same for the house.

 

[rburke65]

That's pretty scary if ya have to ask what is the red thing! I second the vote to stop fooling with it and call someone and have a better Christmas....

 

[tdkkart]

Jesus CHRIST! Hasn't anyone told you that unit is installed SIDEWAYS??

That's the only way it would fit, and the Canadians install breaker panels this way so why can't we do furnaces that way??
We had to bend them therm-er-capler things a bit so they were in the flame, but now it gets nice and hot.

 

[spunger1]

So I got a quote for a new furnace. It was $2300 to remove the current one and install a carrier branded unit with new sheet metal where needed and new thermostat.

There was an option for a two stage unit for $200 more.

I had the company come out and measure for adding AC while we are at it. I Figuered that would probably add $3k to my total.

Does that seem within reason for a furnace install? We know it's always good to get a second quote just to compare and we will probably at least do that. Biggest thing is we need to have the company or an electrician cut the 220v near our washer and add it outside for the compressor.

Heater still works. Sound of the clicking from the valve comes and goes. Thankfully it still works.

Thanks again guys for your help. It's greatly appreciated!

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I just put a new furnace in a few weeks ago and it was $2,800 for the two stage. 1,800sf house built 22 years ago.

As other posters have said, a new furnace will be MUCH MORE efficient and use MUST LESS natural gas than your existing one. My old furnace was 22 years old.

I suspect that the original poster has a furnace that vents out through a chimney. The chimney probably pulls a draft year round and wastes heat; not a big issue when the cost of energy was really, really cheap. But a HUGE issue today.

My 22 year old furnace pushed the exhaust out through a PVC pipe to the side of the house, no chimney with a draft problem.

On my new furnace the exhaust goes out through a PVC pipe like the old one, but the combustion air rather than coming "from the house" and being drawn in around the windows, doors, and any infiltration locations around the house bringing really cold air in, brought in from the outside through a PVC pipe directly through the furnace. The heating guy said we will likely notice that when the furnace is running it won't seem as cold around the windows as before.

Your price seems reasonable. Has additional insulation been put into the ceiling since the house was built? All the doors and windows weather stripped really good? Good luck with the new furnace.

BTW ... where do you live?

 

[spunger1]

I am in so cal (Santa Barbara).

I got the quote to add AC. Was $6,000+. I may need to pass on that. Was more than I had originally thought.

Currently the furnace pulls air in from a register in our hallway and vents out a stack through the roof. I think or am pretty sure the quote has some new connections and hook ups. The hardware they want to use is Carrier branded stuff. I'm going to get another quote here next week and hopefully see where I am at.

Good to know its close in price for a furnace install. I only have a 1200 sq ft home so not big at all. For that $6000 I think we are going to upgrade the electrical panel and use the rest towards a roof. I just can't swallow $8400 (with cost of furnace) vs what else we need done. Maybe someday....

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I am in so cal (Santa Barbara).

I got the quote to add AC. Was $6,000+. I may need to pass on that. Was more than I had originally thought.

Currently the furnace pulls air in from a register in our hallway and vents out a stack through the roof. I think or am pretty sure the quote has some new connections and hook ups. The hardware they want to use is Carrier branded stuff. I'm going to get another quote here next week and hopefully see where I am at.

Good to know its close in price for a furnace install. I only have a 1200 sq ft home so not big at all. For that $6000 I think we are going to upgrade the electrical panel and use the rest towards a roof. I just can't swallow $8400 (with cost of furnace) vs what else we need done. Maybe someday....

The vent/register in the hallway is for return air ,not combustion air.

 

[Mike007]

So I got a quote for a new furnace. It was $2300 to remove the current one and install a carrier branded unit with new sheet metal where needed and new thermostat.

I would make sure you know what you are getting. Around here, $2300 would be cheap for a no frills 80% efficient furnace.

 

[CNGsaves]

Time to SHOP AROUND . . . the old beast needs to go.

Doubt that your furnace really works that hard in So Cal anyway . . . I'd make sure you get proper A/C and ductwork changes to get cooling in all parts of house. I sure wouldn't spend nearly $9K for mediocre A/C and adequate heat.

Would help fellow GJer's if you Updated GJ Profile with your City / State.

For your A/C to be more efficient/comfortable the new systems have 2 speed/2 stage. Likely don't need 97% efficient heat for what is needed in So Cal, but 90% system would be nice. SEER rating is measure of A/C systems efficiency. Get more quotes and the GJ guru's will help you out.

For comparison, around here a complete new A/C & furnace would be $4,500 to $6,000 depending on brand.

Your system typical upflow in basement ??

 

[spunger1]

I'm new to some of the terms. Do you mean up flow attic I think yes. I wish I had a basement but I don't know anyone that does. Wasn't popular here on the coast.

I'm making a couple calls Monday to see on some secondary quotes. I probably will try to get at least 2 more and go from there. Only thing is with the one company who we called to come out they had an hour minimum so we have to pay that or if we go with their quote we owe them nothing for the service call just for the install. If another company was signicficantly cheaper but has a good reputation is go with them. At this point the most I'm out is $110 one way or another.

I wish I could find a legitimate site that showed carrier furnace prices so I knew what the units ran instead of all in a quoted price with no breakdown. I have part numbers but it seems that brand "carrier" is pretty secretive about their pricing.

 

[dsimatt]

. Only thing is with the one company who we called to come out they had an hour minimum so we have to pay that or if we go with their quote we owe them nothing for the service call just for the install. If another company was signicficantly cheaper but has a good reputation is go with them. At this point the most I'm out is $110 one way or another.

.

You'll be paying it either way, upfront if you don't use them or in the total bill they have the fee built into.

I think your best bet is to definetly ask around to find a quality company that is priced good versues a cheap one that will hack it together, this is a investment to last many years so you want it done right the first time.

 

[spunger1]

You'll be paying it either way, upfront if you don't use them or in the total bill they have the fee built into.

I think your best bet is to definetly ask around to find a quality company that is priced good versues a cheap one that will hack it together, this is a investment to last many years so you want it done right the first time.

I totally agree. I'd rather pay more for a better product and install. The company we had come out is pretty well known in town and has a good reputation. Plus from what I can find online carrier products aren't too bad.

I tried calling 3 different places today which came recommended and either their numbers didn't work or i had to leave a message. That's the type of stuff I wa t to avoid with house services. It's always more assuring to get a live person when you call. It may be hours or days until I hear back.

From what I can gather $2300-2500 seems about the going rate at least for a decent branded and sized furnace and install. The AC will wait if ever for $6k. I can't swallow that bill right now.