Future Proofing - What Cable for Cellular and Satellite Internet?

[larry4406]

Getting close to hanging sheet rock on the hall bath project. While walls are open, I have easy path from attic to unfinished basement.

As part of the project, I have been upgrading TV antenna cables to RG6 Quad shield, ran spares, ran Cat5 drops (I had it and they are short runs). I even installed 2 conduits with pull strings so I can always pull something from the unfinished basement to the attic.

What cable type(s) would I pull now to support future cellular internet and/or satellite internet? I would prefer to do it now while easy and keep the conduits empty for the OS moment when I learn I forgot something.

I have a chimney mounted TV antenna and a weatherhead roof penetration for its feed. I assume the cellular/satellite remote antenna would mount on the mast similar to the TV antenna and I can run its cable thru the weatherhead.

We are rural and Comcast/Xfinity is the current internet provider and in excess of $120/month. Allegedly AT&T home internet is available at my address, T-mobile is close per the coverage map but the search app says no, have not checked Verizon.

Currently, the Xfinity gateway has the Wifi shutoff (bridge mode?) and directly connected to the Orbi 750 Wifi router and 2 satellites.

I am not super tech savy so feel free to dumb it down for me.

 

[PCustoms]

Just run another conduit.

More then likely, whatever you plan/run today will be obsolete soon.

Also cellular/satellite is substantially slower then Xfinity in my experience. Fiber available?

 

[loganb]

Starlink satellite internet cable from dish to modem is basically ethernet cable but it's modified and proprietary to them and the cabling comes with the kit. Between the RG6, cat5/6 and the open conduit you have it in pretty good shape!

 

[gleman]

It sounds like you're futureproof for a good while with the spare conduits. I wouldn't run any more wire until you decide on a change.

My house in rural Michigan is getting fiber this winter/spring but I didn't feel the need to upgrade the cat5.

 

[Kaizen]

Just run another conduit.

More then likely, whatever you plan/run today will be obsolete soon.

Also cellular/satellite is substantially slower then Xfinity in my experience. Fiber available?

Agree with the conduit and i'd put in as large as will fit and cap top and bottom till use.
I hate comcast so i went with starlink. Not perfect but just ran a speed test got 350ish meg. Not perfect esp in a snow storm but better then my cluster of a local tel company or the new startups that want big bucks.
The starlink cable has terminated ends and would not fit in a 1" conduit. In the 90s i ran all cat6 cable in my house. Waste of time now i don't use one foot of it.

 

[BrandonV]

Correct. Whatever you install today will eventually need to be replaced. Making it easy to do so is key, using conduit and poly pull line. The coax I use for 900 MHz is different from what I installed for a friend's 5G modem (I used LMR400). Low-loss coax comes in many varieties, so it highly depends on the frequencies you're dealing with. Satellite internet might require coax, fiber, or Ethernet to the roof, depending on the system's architecture and design. For twisted pair, just use a quality UTP Cat 6 with a jacket suitable for the environmental conditions you'll be facing, and call it a day.

 

[PCustoms]

In the 90s i ran all cat6 cable in my house. Waste of time now i don't use one foot of it.

Wasn't cat6 "released" in 2002?

 

[Kaizen]

Wasn't cat6 "released" in 2002?

Sorry i was thinking of cable tv cable with splitters. i've used cat6 in the last 10 years for all my network and camera connections.

 

[theoldwizard1]

What cable type(s) would I pull now to support future cellular internet and/or satellite internet? I would prefer to do it now while easy and keep the conduits empty for the OS moment when I learn I forgot something.

Coax is a "dead man walking" except for "over the air" HDTV. RG6 (even unshielded) is adequate. They are slowly rolling out 4K OTA, but I don't think it requires any addition bandwidth (better wire). If you don't plan on doing OTA, coax is not required.

Almost everything is now WiFi. (802.11ac or 802.11ax - a.k.a. WiFi 5 or WiFi 6; minimum of approximately 500Mb/sec or 1Gb/sec). TVs will need a streaming box (Fire TV, Apple TV, Roku, etc.)

If you want a backup, "home run" Cat 5e/6 cable to the place where your router/switch will be located.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My house in rural Michigan is getting fiber this winter/spring but I didn't feel the need to upgrade the cat5.

I live in a suburb of Detroit. We have had 2 strands (different companies) of "dark" fiber hanging on the poles in our neighborhood for almost 10 years ! I have not heard of any company putting "light" in those fibers anytime soon !

Verizon has planted poles around the neighborhood so Internet via 5G wireless is also available.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

ENT home runs…… Easy to pull any wire through.

 

[larry4406]

Comcast/Xfinity is the only ground based service provider at my location. Its all cable (orange, 3/8"+/- in diameter, RG-11? to basement).

Not sure if the plain old telephone line (POTs) even works. We never connected landline service when we moved in 10+ years ago, and about 4 years ago a drunk nailed the pole out front and severed the drop.

I actually have 3 conduits to the attic, all capped. A 2" pvc, a 1.5" pvc, and a 1" blue Carlon smurf pipe. All are empty. So I may just punt on this.

 

[larry4406]

ENT home runs…… Easy to pull any wire through.

We call this Smurf pipe because of the blue color. I have this for one of the 3 conduits.

 

[PCustoms]

Comcast/Xfinity is the only ground based service provider at my location.

It was (or maybe isdn?) or nothing when I moved here. Fidium started moving in a few years back and a little over a year ago my line went active. Comcast is hurting based on the new lines I've seen...

I actually have 3 conduits to the attic, all capped. A 2" pvc, a 1.5" pvc, and a 1" blue Carlon smurf pipe. All are empty. So I may just punt on this.

Sounds like you're covered IMHO

 

[cody1325]

Do I need to do anything different with fiber? We're supposed to be getting it soon around here. People about 5 minutes down the road have it, we don't yet.

Pretty sure the house is a mess of stuff from various installs from DirectTV, Xfinity (first time), Dish (first time), Xfinity (second time), and Dish (second time) over the years. Probably mostly old coax.

Internet is still on Xfinity, and it's mostly coax connections to the gateway/modem.

Need to do some runs for a planned relocation of a TV into the "family room" (a deck that was made into a large living room), and I think I removed the old run when cleaning up some excess cabling. So, do it in Cat 6?

 

[Kaizen]

Do I need to do anything different with fiber? We're supposed to be getting it soon around here. People about 5 minutes down the road have it, we don't yet.

Pretty sure the house is a mess of stuff from various installs from DirectTV, Xfinity (first time), Dish (first time), Xfinity (second time), and Dish (second time) over the years. Probably mostly old coax.

Internet is still on Xfinity, and it's mostly coax connections to the gateway/modem.

Need to do some runs for a planned relocation of a TV into the "family room" (a deck that was made into a large living room), and I think I removed the old run when cleaning up some excess cabling. So, do it in Cat 6?

I'd wait to see what the install looks like and the termination box. Some have coax as well as other wire plug ins. My TV uses wifi. I believe they have some boxes that adapt to other cables as well. As said above just because its in the area doesnt mean you will have it soon.

 

[BrandonV]

Do I need to do anything different with fiber? We're supposed to be getting it soon around here. People about 5 minutes down the road have it, we don't yet.

Pretty sure the house is a mess of stuff from various installs from DirectTV, Xfinity (first time), Dish (first time), Xfinity (second time), and Dish (second time) over the years. Probably mostly old coax.

Internet is still on Xfinity, and it's mostly coax connections to the gateway/modem.

Need to do some runs for a planned relocation of a TV into the "family room" (a deck that was made into a large living room), and I think I removed the old run when cleaning up some excess cabling. So, do it in Cat 6?

Nothing really changes. Imagine your cable modem is replaced with an optical network terminal (ONT), which takes fiber and converts it into Ethernet. Instead of coaxial cable going from the tap on the street or pole to a demarcation point on the side of your house, they'll likely run a duplex fiber cable from the ONU at the street or pole to a demarcation point on the side of your house. From there, it will be coupled to a similar cable that runs inside to the ONT. Finally, you'll plug your router into the ONT (assuming they don't give you a combination ONT/router unit).

 

[theoldwizard1]

Comcast/Xfinity is the only ground based service provider at my location. Its all cable (orange, 3/8"+/- in diameter, RG-11? to basement).

Likely RG6. I'll bet it is underground. Direct burial coax is larger diameter because it has a water blocking gel infused in it. The cable is orange in the hopes that any one digging will not cut it !

Once it comes into the house it connects to a modem or more likely one box that provides multiple functions. Typically modem, router and wireless access point (WAP). It may have a port for a telephone ("voice over IP", VOIP). If you have television service, the coax is split and sent to all of your "set top" boxes (one per TV).

I helped a good friend who had the same Comcast/Xfinity service (only one in town) "cut the cord". Canceled cable TV and telephone service. No more monthly set top box rental fees. No phone fees. (Already had 2 cell phones.) Then he BOUGHT is own multi-function box so he could stop renting one from Comcast. He bought a couple Amazon Fire TV Sticks (around $30 on sale) and choose DirecTV for his streaming service. He is saving around $100/month !

The only thing he has wired (Cat6) is his main desktop PC, Synology NAS and home standby generator.

Not sure if the plain old telephone line (POTs) even works.

I read somewhere, that in most locations, you can not even get POTS !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Comcast/Xfinity is the only ground based service provider at my location.

It was (or maybe isdn?) or nothing when I moved here. Fidium started moving in a few years back and a little over a year ago my line went active. Comcast is hurting based on the new lines I've seen...

From my previous post

I helped a good friend who had the same Comcast/Xfinity service (only one in town) "cut the cord". Canceled cable TV and telephone service. No more monthly set top box rental fees. No phone fees. (Already had 2 cell phones.) Then he BOUGHT is own multi-function box so he could stop renting one from Comcast. He bought a couple Amazon Fire TV Sticks (around $30 on sale) and choose DirecTV for his streaming service. He is saving around $100/month !

The only thing he has wired (Cat6) is his main desktop PC, Synology NAS and home standby generator.

 

[PCustoms]

From my previous post

This has nothing to do with what I wrote or quoted

 

[BrandonV]

I read somewhere, that in most locations, you can not even get POTS !

Yup. It's not worth maintaining the infrastructure much anymore. I can't speak for other telephone companies besides the one I have experience with, but many of them won't even repair POTS lines anymore. When they moved to the digital loop carrier system, it improved the reliability of the POTS lines a bit (though it also introduced other reliability issues). Currently, many houses and businesses have unusable primary and spare pairs. A lot of telcos partnered with cellular providers for a reason.

 

[ratflinger]

You can buy Starlink products at Best Buy now. I'd go with them vs. anybody else's satellite product. At least Elon delivers. I had Starlink for about 3 years until they laid fiber to my house. If there was no fiber I'd go right back to Starlink.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What cable type(s) would I pull now to support future cellular internet and/or satellite internet? I would prefer to do it now while easy and keep the conduits empty for the OS moment when I learn I forgot something.

this is highly dependent on the equipment and service

for cellular internet, the equipment provided by the carriers usually do not have external antenna connectors. Even when they do, you would have to use adapters to go from SMA (RP-SMA) to the larger size connector found on larger coax (PL259 or N type) and the coax type needed will depend on the length. longer lengths require larger coax due to loss.

The type of antenna and modem will also dictate how many coax runs you will need.

so your question cant be answered with the info you provided. best to just run a large conduit.

I have run coax for BYOD cellular internet and the coax type can vary.

as an example, I have my own backup cellular internet at my shop and I ran LMR400 75' to the roof. but because im running a 4x4 MIMO antenna I ran 4 runs of LMR400. This would require 2" conduit with sweeps since it is stiff.

for satellite, again will totally depend on the type of service you get. the older satellite company's run coax to the roof. Whereas starlink uses a custom proprietary ethernet cable. If you plan on going with starlink, you could buy the cable now and run it.

I have a chimney mounted TV antenna and a weatherhead roof penetration for its feed. I assume the cellular/satellite remote antenna would mount on the mast similar to the TV antenna and I can run its cable thru the weatherhead.

for cellular, its totally dependent on where the towers are. for satellite its totally dependent on clearance to a certain part of the sky. have to use the starlink app...

We are rural and Comcast/Xfinity is the current internet provider and in excess of $120/month. Allegedly AT&T home internet is available at my address, T-mobile is close per the coverage map but the search app says no, have not checked Verizon.

Currently, the Xfinity gateway has the Wifi shutoff (bridge mode?) and directly connected to the Orbi 750 Wifi router and 2 satellites.

I am not super tech savy so feel free to dumb it down for me.

if you have comcast, i would stick with that. hardwired internet will almost always be better than cellular or satellite (except starlink if available but does have outages.)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

In the 90s i ran all cat6 cable in my house. Waste of time now i don't use one foot of it.

impossible. CAT6 standard did not come out until 2002

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Coax is a "dead man walking" except for "over the air" HDTV. RG6 (even unshielded) is adequate.

what? Coax is still used for cable modem internet and will be for a long while as ISPs like comcast (and cable labs) are working on pushing 10Gbps service over existing coax

also there is no such things as unshielded RG6. unshielded RG6 would leak so much RF into the air that it would cause massive interference.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I live in a suburb of Detroit. We have had 2 strands (different companies) of "dark" fiber hanging on the poles in our neighborhood for almost 10 years! I have not heard of any company putting "light" in those fibers anytime soon!

Verizon has planted poles around the neighborhood so Internet via 5G wireless is also available.

i highly doubt its only 2 strands. maybe 2 runs of 12, 24, 36, or 48 strands.

and you clearly dont know what dark fiber is. the whole point is to not have any carrier light on it. instead its available for lease to customers so they can connect their multiple locations together.

once again, youre posting misinformation.

Comcast has dark fiber here and the largest auto dealership in town uses it to connect all their locations to the same internet that comes into one dealership. it also puts all locations on the same LAN.

our local PoCo also has dark fiber and Gallo Wines (among other large companies) leases it to connect their many locations in the county together.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

ENT home runs…… Easy to pull any wire through.

would need very large ENT for microwave coax. plus theres no sweeps so may make it difficult to pull such coax as LMR400.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Likely RG6. I'll bet it is underground. Direct burial coax in larger diameter because it has a water blocking gel infused in it. The cable is orange in the hopes that any one digging will not cut it !

no orange 3/8" coax is RG11. That is what comcast uses for larger coax.... 3/8" coax is too big to be RG6

 

[Norcal]

would need very large ENT for microwave coax. plus theres no sweeps so may make it difficult to pull such coax as LMR400.

ENT is a PITA to fish anything through.

 

[Countyroadtrailers]

starlink uses a custom proprietary ethernet cable. If you plan on going with starlink, you could buy the cable now and run it.

Modern Starlink systems now use standard Ethernet cables. While the OEM cables have better sealing, there are several aftermarket connectors available that seal just as well. Alternatively, you can use a short OEM cable as a transition. The good news is that the newer systems work perfectly with any standard Ethernet cable you have on hand.

 

[gleman]

I live in a suburb of Detroit. We have had 2 strands (different companies) of "dark" fiber hanging on the poles in our neighborhood for almost 10 years ! I have not heard of any company putting "light" in those fibers anytime soon !

Verizon has planted poles around the neighborhood so Internet via 5G wireless is also available.

Ex-Detroiter here! I feel your pain.

The rural electric co-op ran the fiber and the drops are up on their poles. Service has been rolling out, in phases, for the last five years.

 

[BrandonV]

our local PoCo also has dark fiber and Gallo Wines (among other large companies) leases it to connect their many locations in the county together.

Yes, our utility dark fiber holds significant value for the right commercial and industrial players. Many are interested in using it because it runs on separate easements, unlike most fiber in the city that gets damaged when some random company tears up the street.

 

[theoldwizard1]

our local PoCo also has dark fiber and Gallo Wines (among other large companies) leases it to connect their many locations in the county together.

All of Ford Motor Company facilities in SE MI have been link with fiber for years !

 

[theoldwizard1]

for cellular internet, the equipment provided by the carriers usually do not have external antenna connectors.

Kind of surprising ! But it seems like Verizon has planted a telephone pole with a small antenna every other block on my neighborhood !

if you have comcast, i would stick with that. hardwired internet will almost always be better than cellular or satellite (except starlink if available but does have outages.)

Typically, ground based ISP will run coax/fiber to a "modem" inside your house. IMHO, the output from the modem will likely be 1Gb Ethernet. A router/switch and a 802.11ac/ax WAP is typically all you need. Cat6/6A (maybe plenum rated or direct burial rated for wet locations) cable will cover your needs for for more than the next 10(?) years.

Most ground based, non-fiber, ISP allow you to install your own combo modem/router/WAP. I have installed a couple of refurbished ARRIS Surfboard - SBG8300. (Yes, refurbished ! They have worked flawlessly on Spectrum WOW and Comcast because that is exactly what they themselves frequently install !)

I will never argue AGAINST conduit, except for the COST !

Use RG6 for OTA television, utilizing a powered amplified splitter if necessary, even when/if they ever roll out 4k OTA !

 

[theoldwizard1]

no orange 3/8" coax is RG11. That is what comcast uses for larger coax.... 3/8" coax is too big to be RG6

I'll have to check what's at my daughters house !

Installers did not want to deal with tree roots so they add a couple of inches of top soil over what they laid down ! Peaking through in places.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

IMHO, the output from the modem will likely be 1Gb Ethernet.

my S33 cable modem has 2 ethernet ports- 1Gbps and 2.5Gbps....

 

[theoldwizard1]

my S33 cable modem has 2 ethernet ports- 1Gbps and 2.5Gbps....

Well, I frequently 3 or 4 HD wireless streams over 802.11ac on a 600Mb feed. More than enough for anything I do !

Are you serving something ?

 

[BrandonV]

Well, I frequently 3 or 4 HD wireless streams over 802.11ac on a 600Mb feed. More than enough for anything I do !

Are you serving something ?

Newer DOCSIS 3.1 modems often have a 2.5 port and sometimes a 10 gigabit Ethernet port to support if your ISP service exceeds 1 gigabit download.

Most people don't have those plans so you won't see any difference using those ports.

My friend has a cable plan that is over a gigabit and when he does certain torrenting activities he'll burst easily over a gigabit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Newer DOCSIS 3.1 modems often have a 2.5 port and sometimes a 10 gigabit Ethernet port to support if your ISP service exceeds 1 gigabit download.

Most people don't have those plans so you won't see any difference using those ports.

My friend has a cable plan that is over a gigabit and when he does certain torrenting activities he'll burst easily over a gigabit.

yeah i have 1.2Gbps service but my router is limited to 1Gbps so i just use the 1Gbps port.

I run servers, VPNs and SDWAN and dont feel like spending big bucks for an upgraded router with a 2.5 or 10gbps pot

 

[dave*99]

Coax is a "dead man walking" except for "over the air" HDTV. RG6 (even unshielded) is adequate. They are slowly rolling out 4K OTA, but I don't think it requires any addition bandwidth (better wire). If you don't plan on doing OTA, coax is not required.

Almost everything is now WiFi. (802.11ac or 802.11ax - a.k.a. WiFi 5 or WiFi 6; minimum of approximately 500Mb/sec or 1Gb/sec). TVs will need a streaming box (Fire TV, Apple TV, Roku, etc.)

If you want a backup, "home run" Cat 5e/6 cable to the place where your router/switch will be located.

Send us a picture of unshielded coax.